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Engel to IL (Again), Foster down, Burr/Wright Up. Burdi DFA

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10 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

his numbers were strong in AAA. all hands on deck as we try and limit innings. we've got the division wrapped up ... i could care less about momentum over the next 21 days. get this team primed and ready to go starting around mid-september. let engel rest and get healthy. let everybody rest and get healthy. i have a feeling were gonna have some sox fans soon that are going to be reallll antsy when we win like 3-4 games over these next 3 series against the A's, Rays, and Jays. 

Hopefully 3 out of 4 against the A's.

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9 hours ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Now what would make you think that lol?

Yada, yada , yada.

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11 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Never understood the Burdi pick, another first round DFA

2010 Chris Sale LHP Florida Gulf Coast University 13 $1,656,000
2011 Keenyn Walker OF Central Arizona College 47 $795,000
2012 Courtney Hawkins OF Mary Carroll HS (TX) 13 $2,475,000
2012 Keon Barnum 1B King HS (FL) 48 $950,000
2013 Tim Anderson SS East Central Community College 17 $2,164,000
2014 Carlos Rodon LHP North Carolina State University 3 $6,582,000
2015 Carson Fulmer RHP Vanderbilt University 8 $3,470,600
2016 Zack Collins C University of Miami 10 $3,380,600
2016 Zack Burdi RHP University of Louisville 26 $2,128,500
2017 Jake Burger 3B Missouri State 11 $3,700,000
2018 Nick Madrigal SS Oregon State University 4 $6,411,400
2019 Andrew Vaughn 1B University of California 3  
2020 Garrett Crochet LHP University of Tennessee 11

 

I will take that track record over the past decade. I wonder if some site tracks WAR by draft picks, by team. I'd guess the Sox are in the top third. 

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2019/06/03/a-team-by-team-look-at-baseballs-draft-from-1996-2018/39539549/

This would confirm the negative line of thinking for those who'd like to run with that narrative. It also includes picks back to 1996. I wouldn't argue that the Sox were pretty poor at drafting and developing back then. I do think they've turned the corner significantly over the past decade. I feel like the narrative that we suck at drafting goes back to people who've followed the sox for decades and decades and decades. 

 

CHICAGO WHITE SOX

Total WAR for all drafted players: 371.7 (MLB rank: 22nd)

Total WAR for drafted players who signed: 305.6 (rank: 22nd)

Total WAR for drafted players who did not sign: 66.1

Impact players (10 WAR or more) drafted: 10 (rank: 28th)

Impact players drafted and signed: 8 (rank: tie-27th)

Most recent impact player drafted and signed: Marcus Semien, 2011, sixth round (14.8 WAR)

Lowest pick for impact player drafted and signed: Mark Buehrle, 1998, 38th round, pick No. 1,139 (59.2 WAR)

Best draft class, based on total WAR (impact players listed): 1998, 93.8 WAR (Mark Buehrle, Aaron Rowand)

Best draft class, counting signed players only: 1998, 89.1 WAR (Mark Buehrle, Aaron Rowand)

Highest pick: Carlos Rodon, 2014 (pick No. 3)

Best player drafted and signed, based on career WAR: Mark Buehrle, 1998, 38th round (59.2 WAR)

Best player drafted who did not sign: Jeff Weaver, 1997, second round (15.2 WAR)

Best player drafted and signed from first round: Chris Sale, 2010, pick No. 13 (43.6 WAR)

Details: Buehrle was one of baseball's best late-round picks to date. In fact, in the history of the draft, only three overall No. 1 picks (Alex Rodriguez, Chipper Jones and Ken Griffey Jr.) have compiled more WAR than Buehrle.

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4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:
2010 Chris Sale LHP Florida Gulf Coast University 13 $1,656,000
2011 Keenyn Walker OF Central Arizona College 47 $795,000
2012 Courtney Hawkins OF Mary Carroll HS (TX) 13 $2,475,000
2012 Keon Barnum 1B King HS (FL) 48 $950,000
2013 Tim Anderson SS East Central Community College 17 $2,164,000
2014 Carlos Rodon LHP North Carolina State University 3 $6,582,000
2015 Carson Fulmer RHP Vanderbilt University 8 $3,470,600
2016 Zack Collins C University of Miami 10 $3,380,600
2016 Zack Burdi RHP University of Louisville 26 $2,128,500
2017 Jake Burger 3B Missouri State 11 $3,700,000
2018 Nick Madrigal SS Oregon State University 4 $6,411,400
2019 Andrew Vaughn 1B University of California 3  
2020 Garrett Crochet LHP University of Tennessee 11

 

I will take that track record over the past decade. I wonder if some site tracks WAR by draft picks, by team. I'd guess the Sox are in the top third. 

Considering that their average first round pick over that entire decade is right around the 8th pick, one would certainly hope so.

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Posted (edited)

I don’t find it coincidental at all that Sox management started having more success in the draft immediately after the slotting rules were changed in 2012. At least one neutral observer rated the Sox’s pre-2012 drafting 18th among the 30 teams, above NYY, STL, MN, and CLE. Not good, of course, but not disastrous given the budget constraints: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...he-past-decade. Take it for what you will, as it seems to be based primarily on WAR and total amount of money spent.

It might come as a surprise that the Sox had the most 1st round draft picks on its 40-man roster of any MLB team at the beginning of this year: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9HdBlMIfBjNhr_

The video is 13 minutes long, but you can just skip to the 10:30 mark to save time if you wish. Seven of the 11.5 (he counted sandwich picks as a .5) are Sox draft picks, and the list does not include Sox 1st round pick Andrew Vaughn as he apparently had not yet been added to the 40-man.

The success rate by round of the MLB draft, with “success” being a player making the majors (apparently for any length of time and not necessarily with the team that drafted him): 1st round is 66%, 2nd round is 49%, 3-5 rounds is 32%, and it consistently goes down from there. In other words, the average team should expect 6-7 of its 1st round draft picks in any 10-year stretch to play in the majors— https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1219356-examining-the-percentage-of-mlb-draft-p

Edited by asindc

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Considering that their average first round pick over that entire decade is right around the 8th pick, one would certainly hope so.

That's such a cop out. yes picking higher results in better conversion rates, but baseball in general is not that easy. there are a ton of "busts" that never pan out, 1st round or not. Some comparable teams would be who then? Rangers? Seattle? Miami? Orioles? Pirates?  The truth is there are people who are just negative and have made up their mind. The sox can't draft. Once one decides that mindset, then they do their best to dig in and defend that stance. Internet 101. 

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/draft/baseball-draft.php?yr=2010

 

Go to Baseball almanac and just look through 1st round picks .... see how many don't make the majors. See how many are just replacement level or worse. Then come back and see the Sox and how many are making differences on this team today. I get it, you will find a reason to back your argument but baseball drafts aren't easy 

Rangers: Kevin Matthews, Zach Cone, Lewis Brinson, Joey Gallo, Collin Wiles, Alex Gonzalez, Travis Demeritte, Luis Ortize, Dillon Tate, Cole Ragans, Bubba Thompson, Chris Seise, Josh Jung, Davis Wendzel, Justin Foscue, Jack Leiter

Mariners: Danny Hultzen, Mike Zunino, DJ Peterson, Alex Jackson, Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Emerson Hancock

Marlins: Jose Fernandez, Andrew Heaney, Colin Moran, Matt Krook, Tyler Kolek, Blake Anderson, Josh Naylor, Braxton Garrett, Trevor Rogers, Connor Scott, JJ Bleday, Max Meyer, Khalil Watson

Pirates: Barret Barnes, Austin Meadows, Reese McGuire, Cole Tucker, Connor Joe, Kevin Newman, Kebryan Hayes, Will Craig, Nick Lodolo, Shane Baz, Travis Swaggerty, Quinn Priester, Nick Gonzalez

Diamondbacks: Archie Bradley, Stryker Trahan, Branden Shipley, Touki Toussaint, Dansby Swanson, Anfernee Grier, Pavin Smith, Matt MClain, Corbin carroll, Blake Whatson , Bryce Jarvis

White Sox: Chris Sale, Keenyn Walker, Courtney Hawkins, Keon Barnum, Tim Anderson, Carlos Rodon, Carson Fulmer, Zack Collins, Zack Burdi, Jake Burger, Nick Madrigal, Andrew Vaugh, Garrett Crochet. 

Brewers: Taylor Jungmann, Jed Bradley, Clint Coulter, Victor Roache, Mitch Haniger, Kodi Medeiros, Jake Gatewood, Trent Clark, Nathan Kirby, Corey Ray, Keston Hiura, Tristen Lutz, Brice Turang, Ethan Small, Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick

Orioles: Dylan Bundy, Gausman, Hunter Harvey, Josh Hart, DJ Stewart, Ryan Mountcastle, Cody Sedlock, DL Hall, Grayson Rodriguez, Adley Rutschman, Heston Kjerstad

I picked all those teams at random - teams that were near or at the bottom of their division for a decade off top of my head... kinda the worst teams of the 2010's if you will. 

 

Looking at that ... the pirates actually had the best picks ... sox clearly had those three drafts in a row from hawkins to barnum that were just awful... but i think you saw a very focused approach to step away from the toolsy, high upside guys after that. Anderson was another one of those, but panned out. But then we just kept going college guy after college guy and the results have been very, very positive. 

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1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

That's such a cop out. yes picking higher results in better conversion rates, but baseball in general is not that easy. there are a ton of "busts" that never pan out, 1st round or not. Some comparable teams would be who then? Rangers? Seattle? Miami? Orioles? Pirates?  The truth is there are people who are just negative and have made up their mind. The sox can't draft. Once one decides that mindset, then they do their best to dig in and defend that stance. Internet 101. 

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/draft/baseball-draft.php?yr=2010

 

Go to Baseball almanac and just look through 1st round picks .... see how many don't make the majors. See how many are just replacement level or worse. Then come back and see the Sox and how many are making differences on this team today. I get it, you will find a reason to back your argument but baseball drafts aren't easy 

Rangers: Kevin Matthews, Zach Cone, Lewis Brinson, Joey Gallo, Collin Wiles, Alex Gonzalez, Travis Demeritte, Luis Ortize, Dillon Tate, Cole Ragans, Bubba Thompson, Chris Seise, Josh Jung, Davis Wendzel, Justin Foscue, Jack Leiter

Mariners: Danny Hultzen, Mike Zunino, DJ Peterson, Alex Jackson, Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Emerson Hancock

Marlins: Jose Fernandez, Andrew Heaney, Colin Moran, Matt Krook, Tyler Kolek, Blake Anderson, Josh Naylor, Braxton Garrett, Trevor Rogers, Connor Scott, JJ Bleday, Max Meyer, Khalil Watson

Pirates: Barret Barnes, Austin Meadows, Reese McGuire, Cole Tucker, Connor Joe, Kevin Newman, Kebryan Hayes, Will Craig, Nick Lodolo, Shane Baz, Travis Swaggerty, Quinn Priester, Nick Gonzalez

Diamondbacks: Archie Bradley, Stryker Trahan, Branden Shipley, Touki Toussaint, Dansby Swanson, Anfernee Grier, Pavin Smith, Matt MClain, Corbin carroll, Blake Whatson , Bryce Jarvis

White Sox: Chris Sale, Keenyn Walker, Courtney Hawkins, Keon Barnum, Tim Anderson, Carlos Rodon, Carson Fulmer, Zack Collins, Zack Burdi, Jake Burger, Nick Madrigal, Andrew Vaugh, Garrett Crochet. 

Brewers: Taylor Jungmann, Jed Bradley, Clint Coulter, Victor Roache, Mitch Haniger, Kodi Medeiros, Jake Gatewood, Trent Clark, Nathan Kirby, Corey Ray, Keston Hiura, Tristen Lutz, Brice Turang, Ethan Small, Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick

Orioles: Dylan Bundy, Gausman, Hunter Harvey, Josh Hart, DJ Stewart, Ryan Mountcastle, Cody Sedlock, DL Hall, Grayson Rodriguez, Adley Rutschman, Heston Kjerstad

I picked all those teams at random - teams that were near or at the bottom of their division for a decade off top of my head... kinda the worst teams of the 2010's if you will. 

 

Looking at that ... the pirates actually had the best picks ... sox clearly had those three drafts in a row from hawkins to barnum that were just awful... but i think you saw a very focused approach to step away from the toolsy, high upside guys after that. Anderson was another one of those, but panned out. But then we just kept going college guy after college guy and the results have been very, very positive. 

Now that they've been drafting more HS players we should expect the failure rate to increase again.

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2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Now that they've been drafting more HS players we should expect the failure rate to increase again.

I wouldn't disagree there. I think part of it is as you get lower in the 1st round the "sure fire" (degree of) college talents are mostly gone. So you're left more with the Nico Hoerner types at the back of 1. Which is not a knock on Nico, it's more just the Andrew Vaughn types aren't likely to fall that late with 3-4 extra years of scouting. I would argue I'd like to continue drafting those types over the next 2-3 years because those type of guys supplement our roster. That said, I'd guess the line of thinking from the Sox is that our window is approximately 4-6 years ... that we have young, controllable talent, that barring injuries, we have pretty significant talent across all parts of the diamond. Where we don't we can add cheaper, season veterans who can fill those roles. Therefore, the upside to drafting a higher upside High schooler outweighs the surer, lower ceiling guys who'd be around late in round 1. I see both sides, I'd just prefer the college route for a few more years. 

Who knows, maybe we've just improved our scouting and someone like a Montgomery is ready to rock and roll in 5-6 years as our current group is starting to splinter, get older, and more expensive. 

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Can't wait for Adam's return.  He gives the WS some nice options when healthy.

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16 hours ago, poppysox said:

Can't wait for Adam's return.  He gives the WS some nice options when healthy.

Said all season long  - every time he gets hurt.

He's almost injury-prone at this point.

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8 hours ago, knightni said:

Said all season long  - every time he gets hurt.

He's almost injury-prone at this point.

Bad hamstring injuries just take forever to come around. He won't really be right until next season.

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On 9/14/2021 at 1:59 PM, poppysox said:

Can't wait for Adam's return.  He gives the WS some nice options when healthy.

Yep all their OF options are missing some aspect to their game that Adam has. With Engel you get speed , defense and some power. No matter who is pitching he should be in the lineup and if he gets injured again so be it  , you still have all the guys who have been playing OF anyway. Get Adam up to speed asap.

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On 8/17/2021 at 6:05 AM, he gone. said:

Details: Buehrle was one of baseball's best late-round picks to date. In fact, in the history of the draft, only three overall No. 1 picks (Alex Rodriguez, Chipper Jones and Ken Griffey Jr.) have compiled more WAR than Buehrle.

Put that man in the Hall of Fame.

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Guessing Romy.

I think Fry or Burr go first. Probably Fry. Romy is actually useful and I think he hangs on until Vaughn is back.

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8 hours ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

So who gets sent down or optioned tomorrow? 

Hopefully Cesar gets jettisoned to the moon. I’m only half kidding. He’s terrible and Leury should be the 2B moving forward; Engel/Vaughn can cover RF in the playoffs. 

My guess is Fry. 

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3 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I think Fry or Burr go first. Probably Fry. Romy is actually useful and I think he hangs on until Vaughn is back.

You're probably right. I figured as it looks now Romy won't have a place on the post season roster but the Sox might still be trying to see which pitchers to bring so they might get longer looks.

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10 hours ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

So who gets sent down or optioned tomorrow? 

With 15 pitchers, going to guess Burr.  They can get more innings out of Wright as a long man.

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31 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

With 15 pitchers, going to guess Burr.  They can get more innings out of Wright as a long man.

Maybe Wright dropping his suspension is the short term roster play tho? 

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