Owners propose 180m luxury tax, 100m salary floor

[southsider2k5]

49 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

I am surprised the owners offered the floor in their first proposal.  While just about everyone knows it is needed, I figured the owners would hold out on that to grab something else back from the players in exchange.

 

Which is why I wondered what they are up to.  Sounds like a crazy first offer unless something else is happening in the background.

[EloyJenkins]

Do they plan on restructuring the arbitration process? IF they don't there are going to be so many mediocre players getting equivalents to the NBAs mid level exception and that will absolutely give 4th outfielders/utility infielders and non closing relievers even sillier salaries then they get now. People didn't like Eaton getting 8mil this year...oh boy...wait for what is in store. All good though...because screw the owners. Honestly the floor should be 115 and the cap 225 and the last two years of arbitration should be abolished. 

 

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Do they plan on restructuring the arbitration process? IF they don't there are going to be so many mediocre players getting equivalents to the NBAs mid level exception and that will absolutely give 4th outfielders/utility infielders and non closing relievers even sillier salaries then they get now. People didn't like Eaton getting 8mil this year...oh boy...wait for what is in store. All good though...because screw the owners. Honestly the floor should be 115 and the cap 225 and the last two years of arbitration should be abolished. 

 

This is what the union wants. Salaries for the players to go up. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 hours ago, Green Line said:

Its a good plan.  The players' salaries are way too high to begin with.

lol

this shit is hilarious. yes, the owners should make more money and the workers, who are the reason the product even exists and is viewed, should make less! Hip hip, hooray.

Green Line goes to the games to watch the owners box. fascinating stuff going on up there.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Do they plan on restructuring the arbitration process? IF they don't there are going to be so many mediocre players getting equivalents to the NBAs mid level exception and that will absolutely give 4th outfielders/utility infielders and non closing relievers even sillier salaries then they get now. People didn't like Eaton getting 8mil this year...oh boy...wait for what is in store. All good though...because screw the owners. Honestly the floor should be 115 and the cap 225 and the last two years of arbitration should be abolished. 

 

People didn't like Eaton getting 8 million a year BECAUSE of the current model that doesn't pay middling players.

If every middling player in turn makes more, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. It's all relative.

[Leonard Zelig]

What would a floor actually look like in real life?  If a team has their roster and the total is say $95M, what happens?   Are they required to sign another player?  Restructure contracts?  Split the $5M among the guys on he roster?

 

What if they trade a player that puts them under?  

Edited August 19, 2021 by Leonard Zelig

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

What would a floor actually look like in real life?  If a team has their roster and the total is say $95M, what happens?   Are they required to sign another player?  Restructure contracts?  Split the $5M among the guys on he roster?

 

What if they trade a player that puts them under?  

The same way it works in every other sport.

[Leonard Zelig]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The same way it works in every other sport.

Which is?

[EloyJenkins]

 

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

People didn't like Eaton getting 8 million a year BECAUSE of the current model that doesn't pay middling players.

If every middling player in turn makes more, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. It's all relative.

that is fair. but that doesn't make it smart. Eatons of the world should be getting a vet minimum like the NBA. the good money should be going to the young and improving/peak entering players...and eliminating 2 years of arbitration would do that. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by EloyJenkins

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

 

that is fair. but that doesn't make it smart. Eatons of the world should be getting a vet minimum like the NBA. the good money should be going to the young and improving/peak entering players...and eliminating 2 years of arbitration would do that. 

i mean, solomon hill got 48 million over 4 years coming off a year where he scored 4.2 ppg because of the salary floors in the NBA (2016)

I've got no issues with everyone making more; as opposed to just the top dogs. Young guys absolutely need to be paid more and if they are, the eatons of the world might just go away all together.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

Which is?

You have the duration of the year to spend to the level of the floor. If you traded a player, you'd have to eat some contract if it was towards the end of the year and you were possibly going to fall under if you traded the entire contract.

[chitownsportsfan]

12 hours ago, Green Line said:

Its a good plan.  The players' salaries are way too high to begin with.

Jerry, is that you?

[chitownsportsfan]

42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is why I wondered what they are up to.  Sounds like a crazy first offer unless something else is happening in the background.

I think the owners see the way the wind is blowing.  Baseball is becoming a regional sport, or already is, so if they want to keep the cabal together some of the more revenue rich regions will have to share with others.

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think the owners see the way the wind is blowing.  Baseball is becoming a regional sport, or already is, so if they want to keep the cabal together some of the more revenue rich regions will have to share with others.

This is the thing, on the surface this will push down spending at the top, and push it up on the bottom.  Unless there is a larger redistribution of funds about to happen, this doesn't help the revenue poor teams.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I mainly want to tell the owners to f off but it does feel like as a fan the salary cap has, as a fan, made other leagues easier to follow, and I think baseball orgs have been interesting in how they respond to constraints added to the sport (draft budgets, etc). Much more fun as a fan when you know there is just a straight up budget you are working with that is the same as everyone rather than if the owner will be charitable with a few more million.

Now, the weird thing is baseball has shown that teams can be competitive on a variety of budgets, and that has also made it interesting. But the creativity the lower budget teams have found have clearly hurt the player pool.

The other thing I struggle with - everytime there is a huff and a puff about tanking teams not signing guys that are available in like Feb, when you follow-up in august so many of those guys are having awful seasons. Teams really have been pretty good at knowing when players have declined to a point of being worse than a young player.

Overall, I don't want the owners song and dance and them to "win", but I do think a structure of player control only being 4 years with a 5th year option for maybe 1st round picks or certain money amount INTL guys, with a salary floor and cap is probably a more fun game to follow. It certainly would be a more fun start to FA.

My only issue other than disposing of the cheapo teams who don't belong is a guaranteed minimum for the fans of $250K. I don't really give a hoot what JR or Billy Hamilton make, just do your jobs! If there is a stoppage give us some softballs to watch.

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the thing, on the surface this will push down spending at the top, and push it up on the bottom.  Unless there is a larger redistribution of funds about to happen, this doesn't help the revenue poor teams.

It will depend on how many teams go over the 180 or whatever they negotiate the ceiling to be. The more teams that are over the more money that flows to the lower revenue teams.

[raBBit]

 

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I understand it's a negotiation, but the owners have been winning it for a while, they control the money flow.  It is what it is

And what has the union done about? What changes have they made? How have they done in the past agreements in settling their qualms leading up to the last CBA's? They've done next to nothing. And they still trot out Tony Clark to negotiate against some of the best business people in the world. Unless the union gets a real negotiator/negotiators in there, they're going to continue to get beat. 

People need to stop acting like the union is a bunch of little kids getting taken advantage of by the older kids. This is millionaires vs. billionaires. Everyone is in the 1% that most people around here hate. The union has plenty of leverage. Until they acknowledge the mistakes they've made and come forward with a formidable counter to the owners' negotiating might they will continue to lose. 

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

The MLB union is by far the strongest in all of sports. And of course they control the money flow, they OWN the team. Doesn't mean that the players aren't trying to screw the owners over every chance they get.

I agree with the last couple sentences. Is the first sentence still true though? MLB has been looked at as the best union for a long time but the NBA has certainly closed that gap in the last several years. I don't know the NBA well enough to say either way but they seem to be doing more and more for their guys. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by raBBit

[gusguyman]

Maybe I am just on Team Cynical, but I don't think a salary floor will do all that much to stop tanking. I think what it will do, especially in combination with a hard cap, is make salary dump trades much more common. Tanking teams still want the draft picks/high slot money, and they will happily take on terrible contracts from contending teams if they get some good prospects too. The big contracts bring them up to the floor, they improve their farm, and the contending team frees up cap space to go get someone else. 

[oldsox]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I understand it's a negotiation, but the owners have been winning it for a while, they control the money flow.  It is what it is

Of course, the owners control the money flow.  What do you guys suggest, that owners turn the checkbook over to the union or the players?

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

 

 

I agree with the last couple sentences. Is the first sentence still true though? MLB has been looked at as the best union for a long time but the NBA has certainly closed that gap in the last several years. I don't know the NBA well enough to say either way but they seem to be doing more and more for their guys. 

I guess I just look at the salary caps and floors in the other sports and the fully guaranteed contracts. The union has really kept these intact. These are huge advantages compared to other sports.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Of course, the owners control the money flow.  What do you guys suggest, that owners turn the checkbook over to the union or the players?

They don't even let them look at the checkbook so what's your point 

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, raBBit said:

 

And what has the union done about? What changes have they made? How have they done in the past agreements in settling their qualms leading up to the last CBA's? They've done next to nothing. And they still trot out Tony Clark to negotiate against some of the best business people in the world. Unless the union gets a real negotiator/negotiators in there, they're going to continue to get beat. 

People need to stop acting like the union is a bunch of little kids getting taken advantage of by the older kids. This is millionaires vs. billionaires. Everyone is in the 1% that most people around here hate. The union has plenty of leverage. Until they acknowledge the mistakes they've made and come forward with a formidable counter to the owners' negotiating might they will continue to lose. 

I agree with the last couple sentences. Is the first sentence still true though? MLB has been looked at as the best union for a long time but the NBA has certainly closed that gap in the last several years. I don't know the NBA well enough to say either way but they seem to be doing more and more for their guys. 

Absolutely agree that they have done nothing but capitulate.  I wish they could do more but we are still stuck in a owner mindset where blacking out much of the middle of the United States makes sense

[oldsox]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

They don't even let them look at the checkbook so what's your point 

....which is probably a product of collective bargaining, plus private corporations are under no obligation to show checkbook.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, oldsox said:

....which is probably a product of collective bargaining, plus private corporations are under no obligation to show checkbook.

Do you believe that this should be the case, that they shouldn't have to disclose their finances while trying to drive down costs claiming biblical losses?  I know you are very offended right now at my cynical approach to the owners so please let me know how it should go in your opinion 

[StrangeSox]

Bring back the halocyn days of the player/manager/owner