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Chisoxfn

COVID Thread Part Deux

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7 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

And for which there is literally zero evidence of it being effective.  These people are fucking morons.  All over hydroxychloroquine last year and now Ivermectin but not over proven successful vaccines.  It's too bad this stupidity didn't impact other people or I'd be perfectly content that we just have a bunch of Darwin award winners.

At least hydroxychloroquine was an anti-viral medication. It doesn't work against COVID, but it also doesn't really harm you. An anti-parasitic taken at 10x the normal human dosage can, and has, killed people.

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12 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Obesity was causing full hospitals and completely burnt out emergency medicine staff and medicine shortages? Can you point me to this information?

Like I said, people will quote select one sentence & be like “I won”

No obesity isn’t like covid. Yes obesity matters. 
Three people get covid, all 60 years old. 
5’9.  One weighs 150lb. One weighs 225lb one weighs 300lb. 
which do you want to be? 
 

if there was magic wand and I could turn everybody into a CrossFit athlete for the past 2 years since covid - do you think the hospitals would be full? ICU overrun? Obesity matters. 

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26 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Like I said, people will quote select one sentence & be like “I won”

No obesity isn’t like covid. Yes obesity matters. 
Three people get covid, all 60 years old. 
5’9.  One weighs 150lb. One weighs 225lb one weighs 300lb. 
which do you want to be? 
 

if there was magic wand and I could turn everybody into a CrossFit athlete for the past 2 years since covid - do you think the hospitals would be full? ICU overrun? Obesity matters. 

I guess I’m missing what your main point is other than “question things” and “think about this”. 
 

Would it be nice if everyone were perfectly healthy when covid hit? Yes, but that’s not the situation we are in. The situation we are in is that there is a vaccine that is proven to work and everyone should be encouraged to take it as their first line of defense against the virus. If everyone did that, the effects of the virus would be dramatically reduced and we could all get on with normal life. 

Edited by Marqhead
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1 hour ago, raBBit said:

If you're talking about horse past or horse dewormer just know that you are susceptible to propaganda. Joe Rogan didn't take horse dewormer. India isn't giving their people horse paste. Maybe a few idiots that work on a farm took a form of a drug used for humans in a different form and it got extensive media coverage. Maybe the media lied about hospitals having issues due to horse dewormer. Ivermectin is an essential medicine per the WHO. The creator of ivermectin for human application won the nobel prize. Whether it's an acceptable treatment for COVID varies on the doctor. You don't have to deliberately lie about things because you want everyone to get vaccinated. Ivermectin is being maligned because it is a generic drug that Big Pharma makes pennies off of. 

No it does not. A doctor may give it to you, but the only evidence that is has any effect is clearly fraudulent. 

It is also really,  really, really interesting how you have such a problem with Big Pharma making money on anything, but you have no problem with people pushing Ivermectin to make money on it.

Quote

NBC News’ Ben Collins and Brandy Zadrozny last month detailed a scheme to cash in on people who want ivermectin, but can’t get a prescription from a responsible medical practitioner. SpeakWithAnMD.com, they reported, is a telemedicine website touted on anti-vaccination social media communities for serving as a pill mill for ivermectin. The website offers consultations for $90; asks prospective patients whether they are seeking ivermectin, the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine, or another medication; and promises same-day delivery of prescribed drugs through an online pharmacy.

The telemedicine website has ties to the broader right-wing infrastructure, NBC News further reported. It partners with America’s Frontline Doctors, a fringe-right medical organization that regularly promotes COVID-19 misinformation and has drawn sympathetic coverage from Fox News and other right-wing outlets. (That group’s founder, Dr. Simone Gold, was arrested after storming the U.S. Capitol during the January 6 insurrection and charged with violent entry and disorderly conduct.)

 

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49 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

At least hydroxychloroquine was an anti-viral medication. It doesn't work against COVID, but it also doesn't really harm you. An anti-parasitic taken at 10x the normal human dosage can, and has, killed people.

Actually there is likelihood of significant harm from the side effects of Hyroxychloroquine. It is tough on the circulatory system, so pumping people full of it while their hearts were also being damaged by a virus was probably not a particularly safe thing. It also impacts the immune system - that's why people with overactive immune systems (Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis) take it. You can wonder whether taking something that impacts the immune system while fighting a virus is a good idea.

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49 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Like I said, people will quote select one sentence & be like “I won”

No obesity isn’t like covid. Yes obesity matters. 
Three people get covid, all 60 years old. 
5’9.  One weighs 150lb. One weighs 225lb one weighs 300lb. 
which do you want to be? 
 

if there was magic wand and I could turn everybody into a CrossFit athlete for the past 2 years since covid - do you think the hospitals would be full? ICU overrun? Obesity matters. 

Well, first of all, pediatric beds have spent the last month variably filling up from one spot to another in several states and I struggle to see obesity as a driving force in that.

But, I'm actually willing to play your game a little bit. What you're doing is by definition a "red herring" fallacy - we have one problem, COVID, and you are sitting there saying "Look at this other problem, because we have this other problem we shouldn't try to solve the first.

But let's say I didn't use the second as an excuse. What are you advocating to improve/assist with the obesity epidemic? Are you in favor of mandatory government diet restrictions? Sin taxes on various products? Changing government subsidies on various products? Banning certain products? Changing the way health insurance coverage bills for certain individuals? There are several policies along those lines that I believe would be good ideas, but since you're insisting this is a subject you feel is strongly important, I would say you should go first. What policy are you advocating?

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For the record, obesity, while a major issue in this country doesn't seem to have a world wide correlation to death rates.

Peru leads the world in covid death rate per million, yet their are way below average in the world for obesity.  Same with 2nd place Hungary.  Same with 3rd place Bosnia.  The fat old US ranks 22nd in the world in covid death rate.  There really isn't any correlation between the most obese countries and the highest covid death rates. 

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1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

Like I said, people will quote select one sentence & be like “I won”

No obesity isn’t like covid. Yes obesity matters. 
Three people get covid, all 60 years old. 
5’9.  One weighs 150lb. One weighs 225lb one weighs 300lb. 
which do you want to be? 
 

if there was magic wand and I could turn everybody into a CrossFit athlete for the past 2 years since covid - do you think the hospitals would be full? ICU overrun? Obesity matters. 

Obesity matters. I'm not sure anyone said otherwise. What I think some people are objecting to are trying to use it as a deflection from why we should care about COVID so much. We see COVID's ongoing major impacts to nearly every aspect of society still. Obesity is a long-term societal issue that ought to be addressed but presents different challenges and complications.

Highly infectious viral diseases are a different animal than non-infectious disease and morbidities. It's as simple as that. 

Edited by StrangeSox
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1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

Obesity matters. I'm not sure anyone said otherwise. What I think some people are objecting to are trying to use it as a deflection from why we should care about COVID so much.

Highly infectious viral diseases are a different animal than non-infectious disease and morbidities. It's as simple as that. 

And if it really matters, and we have an above average covid/obesity country, we should probably try to stop covid instead of finger wagging about something that won't kill you nearly as quickly as the bigger one.

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Also, scientists and some (definitely not all) politicians have been sounding alarms on rising obesity for years now.

I love when I see a CDC recall on ice cream, especially Blue Bell, it's like: "I'LL EAT ALL THE DAMN BLUE BELL I WANT."

CDC recall on lettuce: "TOLD YOU LETTUCE WAS BAD."

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I’m not going to respond to the idiot….I’m not going to respond to the idiot….I’m not going to respond to the idiot.

Phew, that was close. 

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4 hours ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

And for which there is literally zero evidence of it being effective.  These people are fucking morons.  All over hydroxychloroquine last year and now Ivermectin but not over proven successful vaccines.  It's too bad this stupidity didn't impact other people or I'd be perfectly content that we just have a bunch of Darwin award winners.

Hydro made sense though - at time limit data and no good treatment options or vaccines. We are now in this world where we actually have vaccines. Look I won’t argue if someone gets the virus they want the kitchen sink thrown at things…I argue with you have a proven and highly effective tool that is being ignored for many of the same reasons people are taking things that are not approved for. 
 

A year ago if I got Covid and got really sick I would probably take a shot on hydro just like if god forbid I had a horrible cancer I would take another shot at some form of experimental treatment as a wing and prayer. 

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7 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Hydro made sense though - at time limit data and no good treatment options or vaccines. We are now in this world where we actually have vaccines. Look I won’t argue if someone gets the virus they want the kitchen sink thrown at things…I argue with you have a proven and highly effective tool that is being ignored for many of the same reasons people are taking things that are not approved for. 
 

A year ago if I got Covid and got really sick I would probably take a shot on hydro just like if god forbid I had a horrible cancer I would take another shot at some form of experimental treatment as a wing and prayer. 

It made sense for a pretty short period of time but it wasn't that long before there was good data showing it wasn't effective and you still had nut jobs swearing by it, that is more what I was referring to.

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2 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

It made sense for a pretty short period of time but it wasn't that long before there was good data showing it wasn't effective and you still had nut jobs swearing by it, that is more what I was referring to.

And the big picture here is quite simple.  There is something out there that is approved and has shown to have a WAY bigger benefit to people's health in this vaccine, meanwhile the same people that do everything they can to poke holes in the one actually approved measure for COVID, but are perfectly willing to believe in ACTUAL experimental treatments with literally zero proof of effectiveness.  One goalpost is ten feet high, the other is one hundred, but both are being treated as equal.

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6 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

It made sense for a pretty short period of time but it wasn't that long before there was good data showing it wasn't effective and you still had nut jobs swearing by it, that is more what I was referring to.

Yeah, hydroxychloroquine made sense until they got data and then the data was like "doesn't do anything to help COVID, but people with lupus can't get this drug now."

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9 hours ago, hogan873 said:

Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone has one, and they usually stink.  An opinion is not science.  An opinion does not trump science.  The science, the research, and the damn results prove that the vaccines work.  Anti-vaxxers saying they need more information or need to some research for themselves are full of shit.  I don't want to hear from anti-vaxxers.  They are selfish, ignorant people who are literally causing this pandemic to continue rolling.  And that's NOT an opinion.  That's a fact.

So much is wrong about this post IMO, but no need for me to rebut. You have the right to your opinion on the vax issue.

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41 minutes ago, Quin said:

Yeah, hydroxychloroquine made sense until they got data and then the data was like "doesn't do anything to help COVID, but people with lupus can't get this drug now."

Interesting that the two highly publicized cases of celebs who 'threw the kitchen sink" at Covid, got well really quickly: Trump and Rogan.

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35 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Interesting that the two highly publicized cases of celebs who 'threw the kitchen sink" at Covid, got well really quickly: Trump and Rogan.

The steroids they use are somewhat effective at limiting deaths, >25% of the deaths give or take can be eliminated by the current steroids. The Monoclonal antibodies are quite effective, even more effective than the steroids, but they need to be used early in treatment, which means you need to have a person who is being tested often or who is tested right at the onset of symptoms for those to be useful. If you let the disease progress because you think it might be just a cold, it is probably too late.

It is very interesting that these same two, both of whom have spread false information about the disease, were tested rapidly and were able to get the expensive treatment before the infection was able to do very much. Almost as if they minimize it publicly while panicking the second they get exposed or don't feel right.

And even then, the older of them wound up hospitalized. 

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33 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Interesting that the two highly publicized cases of celebs who 'threw the kitchen sink" at Covid, got well really quickly: Trump and Rogan.

Trump was going to get every single thing humanly possible to save him. He was the damn president. 

Here's everything he got: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54418464

You know what he didn't get from the doctors at Walter Reed? Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. 

The former host of Fear Factor took horse medication, yes. He also took monoclonal antibodies, which are far, far more important.

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Calling it like it is. Have ZERO sympathy here. None.

 

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Calling it like it is. Have ZERO sympathy here. None.

 

I’m pretty sure she’s wrong about President Biden taking away Florida’s monoclonal antibodies. The administration is redistributing.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/09/16/desantis-opens-new-war-with-biden-over-covid-treatments-1391111

Strangely enough, some I know today said they were disappointed in doctors, who wouldn’t prescribe things to help people recover. I could only think she meant getting ivermectin but I have no idea. Then I saw another Facebook thread railing against the vaccination mandate and would love to ask people if they’d rather take therapeutics than the vaccine and if they would like to do that each time they got the virus, just to see what they said. 

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10 hours ago, Tony said:

Calling it like it is. Have ZERO sympathy here. None.

 

Taking things that have zero proof of helping along with regeneron just to keep that carrot on the stick 

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Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

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4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Do you believe I should be able to ask a doctor in a Covid unit to administer cocaine to me in order to treat Covid?  Should I have that control?

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22 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Cool. Now if your neighbor decides that he wants to fill his yard with coal ash, or better yet, nuclear waste?

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