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COVID Thread Part Deux

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Here's a real treat for this thread:

 

Tales of Stoopidity

 

When I see things like the link above, I feel a sense of sadness. When I see fucking morons fuck over their neighbors in places like Idaho, where ICU beds are scarce thanks to unwanted morons, I get enraged.

But when I think about how antivax types are fucking over the freedoms of those who are vaxxed, I develop a white-hot rage for them.

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44 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Vaccines haven't been controversial (in the mainstream, at least) until recent years, and that's because of people trying to make money. Before COVID, we got a measles outbreak in New York City.

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2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Yes.

But if you are doing something that poses a danger to the people around you, then the rest of us have an equal right to block your access to places of work, schools, and places of business so that you cannot pose that danger to the population.

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3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Why cant I put LSD, MDMA, Cocaine etc in my body? Do I really have control of my life?

The argument against vaccines is entirely hypocritical if the anti-vaxxers dont believe I have the right to do whatever damn drugs I feel like. Unlike covid, my cocaine binge isnt hurting anyone but myself. In most states you cant even buy marijuana.

(Edit)

Also my employer is allowed to restrict alcohol/drug use while I am working. Why should my employer not be able to also require vaccines?

Edited by Soxbadger
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3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

This issue is complicated compared to other vaccines because of the fact we still don't know for sure where the virus originated, the politics involved in lockdowns and shutdowns, the fact it was administered before full FDA approval which has sparked conspiracy theories, etc.

Say what you want and disagree all you want but because of all the noise and distrust of Fauci and the government (many would never trust a Trump vaccine; many would never trust a Biden vaccine) you get many unwilling to be vaxxed. There's been so much noise and so little discussion of calming people's fears to adverse reactions that have occurred with some, that many are sitting it out.

In answer to your question, yes people have the right to refuse to be jabbed. Personal choice is evident here and understandable. It's just the way it is. Some are rolling the dice rather than trusting politicians and science.

There's also an intolerance regarding calm discussion of the issue. Right wing radio hosts have been outspoken against the vax and more than a few have died from Covid. Left wingers like Howard have exploded and said unvaxxed deserve what they get. Noise, noise, noise. We have to deal with the fallout of an angry society re. this vaccine and future ones surely to come. Not enough calm discussion. Everybody feels they are right and have dug in.

Peace.

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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

This issue is complicated compared to other vaccines because of the fact we still don't know for sure where the virus originated, the politics involved in lockdowns and shutdowns, the fact it was administered before full FDA approval which has sparked conspiracy theories, etc.

Say what you want and disagree all you want but because of all the noise and distrust of Fauci and the government (many would never trust a Trump vaccine; many would never trust a Biden vaccine) you get many unwilling to be vaxxed. There's been so much noise and so little discussion of calming people's fears to adverse reactions that have occurred with some, that many are sitting it out.

In answer to your question, yes people have the right to refuse to be jabbed. Personal choice is evident here and understandable. It's just the way it is. Some are rolling the dice rather than trusting politicians and science.

There's also an intolerance regarding calm discussion of the issue. Right wing radio hosts have been outspoken against the vax and more than a few have died from Covid. Left wingers like Howard have exploded and said unvaxxed deserve what they get. Noise, noise, noise. We have to deal with the fallout of an angry society re. this vaccine and future ones surely to come. Not enough calm discussion. Everybody feels they are right and have dug in.

Peace.

If someone tells you with proof the virus originated in Bulgaria, how does that change anything you have done or will do going forward.  Why does it's point of origination affect whether you will or will not vaccinate 

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

If someone tells you with proof the virus originated in Bulgaria, how does that change anything you have done or will do going forward.  Why does it's point of origination affect whether you will or will not vaccinate 

Right. We could have iron clad proof it was deliberately engineered and released by some country's bioweapons lab, or we could discover conclusive proof of animal origins and trace back the first cases. Either way, we'd still be dealing with the same Delta wave here and now.

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5 hours ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

Bingo. 

 

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20 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Bingo. 

 

Really? You think antivaxxers actually care? Why is  why drug use criminalized?

I dont recall Desantis on the war path for drug legalization.

Edited by Soxbadger

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22 hours ago, Tony said:

I’m not going to respond to the idiot….I’m not going to respond to the idiot….I’m not going to respond to the idiot.

Phew, that was close. 

Mature. Unfortunate that you think this way, but is what it is. I spend a lot of time reading, researching, learning and bettering myself on a day to day basis and it's reflected in my overall success, friendships, relationships, and my overall health. 

It's fun to watch this board. It's like Modest Mouse album "good news for those who like bad news". 

Fear porn. fear drives people to do weird things. unfortunately a lot of you are caught up in fear. 

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5 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Bingo. 

 

I love that measles, mumps, whooping cough, chickenpox, polio and smallpox would have completely whooped our asses with this line of thinking. We'd have kids in iron lungs and people saying "it's better than doing what the government tells me."

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11 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Bingo. 

 

Other than this vaccine what have you questioned your doctor about where you felt that their suggestion/treatment was incorrect?  If you stepped on a rusty nail would you say "I'm looking online for a homeopathic remedy" or are you getting a tetanus shot because you don't want lock jaw.

it's very interesting that people feel it's ok to question doctors now 

also, what is the fear porn comment about.  You are vaccinated as well, does that mean you are living in fear?

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4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Other than this vaccine what have you questioned your doctor about where you felt that their suggestion/treatment was incorrect?  If you stepped on a rusty nail would you say "I'm looking online for a homeopathic remedy" or are you getting a tetanus shot because you don't want lock jaw.

it's very interesting that people feel it's ok to question doctors now 

also, what is the fear porn comment about.  You are vaccinated as well, does that mean you are living in fear?

Obesity got brought up. Are we questioning anything that isn't an all natural food? Are the Sox serving meat that is only free-range cattle and chicken? Is the beer vegan beer?

I demand answers.

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On 9/16/2021 at 11:22 AM, Balta1701 said:

Well, first of all, pediatric beds have spent the last month variably filling up from one spot to another in several states and I struggle to see obesity as a driving force in that.

But, I'm actually willing to play your game a little bit. What you're doing is by definition a "red herring" fallacy - we have one problem, COVID, and you are sitting there saying "Look at this other problem, because we have this other problem we shouldn't try to solve the first.

But let's say I didn't use the second as an excuse. What are you advocating to improve/assist with the obesity epidemic? Are you in favor of mandatory government diet restrictions? Sin taxes on various products? Changing government subsidies on various products? Banning certain products? Changing the way health insurance coverage bills for certain individuals? There are several policies along those lines that I believe would be good ideas, but since you're insisting this is a subject you feel is strongly important, I would say you should go first. What policy are you advocating?

if you could put your hand on a bible, or take a lie detector test ... etc. and I asked you that question. 60 years old, 5'9, 150lbs and 60 years old 5'9 and 300lbs you and i both know you're choosing the guy at 150lbs. it's a contributing factor and we all know it. being fit is hard. people are lazy. aka, the deflection is large. 

No, I am generally for less involvement. i don't want the government involved in my life. if you stuff yourself full of krispy kreme and applebee's more power to you. just be accountable for it. The one I'd be most in favor for would be health insurance changes. they're businesses and can do whatever they think betters their business. So providing different rates for different weights and lifestyles? I'd love a plan like that. I put in a lot of work between my diet and workout routines. i get bloodwork done each year. outside of that? i've been to the doctor once in the past 15 years. but in terms of government? god no, they don't need to be involved in taxing or restricting what people eat. the most, most, most, i'd want the government involved is a bigger focus on health in schools and then subsidies for gyms. we subsidize corn and wheat and oil and so much ... having a free gym in each community not only could drive community, but also health. even that's a reach to me, but if there was going to be any government, free gyms. 

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8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Other than this vaccine what have you questioned your doctor about where you felt that their suggestion/treatment was incorrect?  If you stepped on a rusty nail would you say "I'm looking online for a homeopathic remedy" or are you getting a tetanus shot because you don't want lock jaw.

it's very interesting that people feel it's ok to question doctors now 

also, what is the fear porn comment about.  You are vaccinated as well, does that mean you are living in fear?

nope, not living in fear. it's a cost benefit analysis. upside/downside risk. makes sense for me, it also makes sense for the large, large majority. doesn't mean it should be mandated. 

And ya i'd question my doctor. i question my mechanic. i question my contractors. i question everybody. being curious about life and not just following is a good thing. 

I had a surgery in july ... they sent me home with some very strong pain killers. I took zero. you want to know how many questions they asked before giving those to me? ZERO. what if addiction ran in my family? i happen to know two very close people who struggled with pain meds for years who are luckily clean now and raising beautiful families. they had addiction issues that run in their family ... maybe doctors should be asking more questions too. 

I take my health very seriously. i have very close family members who are obese and its not a life i choose or want to live. 

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The obesity argument only tries to put the blame of Covid death on the obese person.  It's your fault you died, You were fat.

my dad died 5 years ago, his heart stopped. He had heart problems his entire life, multiple bypass surgeries.  My mom died in January, her heart stopped.  Never once had a heart problem, went to routine doctor appointments, rode her bike everywhere, was not overweight, very active person.  Her heart just stopped.

I am 6'1" 215, slightly overweight in terms of BMI but I am mostly an active person.  I go to my appointments yearly, I try to be healthy.  But I understand that there could be an underlying heart condition that could end me, and Covid could exacerbate that.  Am I also at fault if this happens?  
 

Covid is the problem here, we need to address that.  

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5 hours ago, Texsox said:

Big picture. 

If we don't have control over what we put in our bodies do we have any control over our lives? I was vaccinated as quickly as it was available to me and wish everybody would be. But stepping back and asking the bigger question shouldn't we have control over what is put in our bodies? 

This isn’t the place for it, but big picture, do we all truly have control over our bodies when it comes to laws around sexuality and reproduction? I know that’s not what you intended but I couldn’t help but think of that.

People have freedom, sure, but they also should have an obligation to do things for public health and if they don’t, then they need to live with the results of their actions.

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

This issue is complicated compared to other vaccines because of the fact we still don't know for sure where the virus originated, the politics involved in lockdowns and shutdowns, the fact it was administered before full FDA approval which has sparked conspiracy theories, etc.

Say what you want and disagree all you want but because of all the noise and distrust of Fauci and the government (many would never trust a Trump vaccine; many would never trust a Biden vaccine) you get many unwilling to be vaxxed. There's been so much noise and so little discussion of calming people's fears to adverse reactions that have occurred with some, that many are sitting it out.

In answer to your question, yes people have the right to refuse to be jabbed. Personal choice is evident here and understandable. It's just the way it is. Some are rolling the dice rather than trusting politicians and science.

There's also an intolerance regarding calm discussion of the issue. Right wing radio hosts have been outspoken against the vax and more than a few have died from Covid. Left wingers like Howard have exploded and said unvaxxed deserve what they get. Noise, noise, noise. We have to deal with the fallout of an angry society re. this vaccine and future ones surely to come. Not enough calm discussion. Everybody feels they are right and have dug in.

Peace.

Greg, why does it matter where the virus originated? Shouldn’t the focus be more on beating the pandemic rather than poking around the bat versus lab theory? That’ll be investigated and it may never be known.

There is now full FDA approval, so I don’t really listen to the EUA arguments. The lockdowns are debatable but still aren’t very relevant to the vaccine discussion.

Even if a doctor or health care provider responded to the reactions people had, do you think that would convince them to get the vaccine? 

It’s near impossible to have calm discussion on anything from vaccines to policy and I’m not sure what is going to fix that. I don’t think it’s going to get fixed since the volume was turned up and now either human beings discuss things over message boards or Facebook or try and talk about things in person, although most people probably avoid doing so in person.

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15 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Mature. Unfortunate that you think this way, but is what it is. I spend a lot of time reading, researching, learning and bettering myself on a day to day basis and it's reflected in my overall success, friendships, relationships, and my overall health. 

It's fun to watch this board. It's like Modest Mouse album "good news for those who like bad news". 

Fear porn. fear drives people to do weird things. unfortunately a lot of you are caught up in fear. 

Reading, researching, learning and bettering yourself only works if you're actually spending time consuming valuable content. It's your same argument on science. "ASKING QUESTIONS AND CHALLENGING NORMS IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING!!11" 

You could spend your time reading, researching and learning on QAnon message boards. Does that make you a more informed, better person? 

I know, we're all sheep because we aren't curious about things. You were the same guy that had a back and forth with me about real estate companies and technologies because after the first time you bought a house, all the sudden you were an expert. Doesn't matter if my family has decades of experience and knows the industry, because you were exposed to it, now you're qualified to challenge people that have studied the field their entire lives. 

You're an SNL character. 

ae970cab0303ada9055291cd455510a9_b0336d1 

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8 minutes ago, Quin said:

Obesity got brought up. Are we questioning anything that isn't an all natural food? Are the Sox serving meat that is only free-range cattle and chicken? Is the beer vegan beer?

I demand answers.

you may want to look into the practices of factory farming and mono farming. it's a good topic to learn about. i subscribe to butcher box, some of the best free range and all natural meat you'll ever have. very good company if anybody is looking for alternatives. 

not sure why you'd be so serious about health and covid, but so flippant about obesity. obesity rates are growing at very high rates and is a very serious issue. Or are you just picking and choosing which health issues are important as it fits to your narrative?

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4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

you may want to look into the practices of factory farming and mono farming. it's a good topic to learn about. i subscribe to butcher box, some of the best free range and all natural meat you'll ever have. very good company if anybody is looking for alternatives. 

not sure why you'd be so serious about health and covid, but so flippant about obesity. obesity rates are growing at very high rates and is a very serious issue. Or are you just picking and choosing which health issues are important as it fits to your narrative?

Nobody is being flippant about obesity but you can't make somebody healthy and in shape with the snap of a finger right now because they might get Covid.  This about protection right now, so that someone you know and love that may be obese or have an underlying condition will live.  Instead the waters have been irretrievably muddied by bad faith actors and people "just asking questions"

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7 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

you may want to look into the practices of factory farming and mono farming. it's a good topic to learn about. i subscribe to butcher box, some of the best free range and all natural meat you'll ever have. very good company if anybody is looking for alternatives. 

not sure why you'd be so serious about health and covid, but so flippant about obesity. obesity rates are growing at very high rates and is a very serious issue. Or are you just picking and choosing which health issues are important as it fits to your narrative?

And your solution to this is....free gyms. No mention of the food deserts that plague low-income areas, or that generally speaking a hamburger from Wendy's costs .99 cents but a salad may cost $10.99. 

But yes, free gyms will solve our issues. Must have come with that idea during all that reading. 

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no offense to any of you - but i've been going back and forth about this for a while. i'm going to be deleting my account. i used to have fun on this board, but lately its more anxiety than anything because of this stupid topic. i don't even go onto pale hose anymore ... just straight to this. and i waste entirely too much time trying to make points. im sure some of you are really good people. we all have our disagreements naturally about how we see the world which are driven by personal experiences that others on this board are not privvy to. 

take the response above ... I mean? This your moderator? i could say the sun is shining and he'd come back with "there's some clouds up there". what's the point of going back and forth with someone like that? it's not even a normal, reasoned response. how is that productive conversation? it's just attack. 

 33,551 posts. im gonna stop wasting my time... have fun on your next 33,551 posts tony.

 

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16 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

you may want to look into the practices of factory farming and mono farming. it's a good topic to learn about. i subscribe to butcher box, some of the best free range and all natural meat you'll ever have. very good company if anybody is looking for alternatives. 

not sure why you'd be so serious about health and covid, but so flippant about obesity. obesity rates are growing at very high rates and is a very serious issue. Or are you just picking and choosing which health issues are important as it fits to your narrative?

Butcher box is a legit company, but not in my budget. 

Some time over the pandemic I realized my depression was causing weight gain so I did take it seriously and lost 30 pounds. I was lucky that I had income to address that during the pandemic (and cook lots of healthy meals), but when I was broke, cheap, unhealthy food was a big contributor. 

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5 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

no offense to any of you - but i've been going back and forth about this for a while. i'm going to be deleting my account. i used to have fun on this board, but lately its more anxiety than anything because of this stupid topic. i don't even go onto pale hose anymore ... just straight to this. and i waste entirely too much time trying to make points. im sure some of you are really good people. we all have our disagreements naturally about how we see the world which are driven by personal experiences that others on this board are not privvy to. 

take the response above ... I mean? This your moderator? i could say the sun is shining and he'd come back with "there's some clouds up there". what's the point of going back and forth with someone like that? it's not even a normal, reasoned response. how is that productive conversation? it's just attack. 

 33,551 posts. im gonna stop wasting my time... have fun on your next 33,551 posts tony.

 

So I challenge you on your points, the guy that is telling us he's smarter than all of us...and your response is to de-activate your account. 

Got it. 

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