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Chisoxfn

COVID Thread Part Deux

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My wife got a breakthrough infection earlier this week. Lost her sense of smell after dinner Monday night, took an at-home rapid test, positive almost immediately. We masked up quickly but had been sitting and talking, even shared a water bottle a couple hours earlier. We were both vaxxed with Pfizer back in the spring. She had a PCR test on Tuesday to confirm, yep, positive.

We also have a 2 and a 4 year old. Not exactly easy to isolate at that age. We're doing the best we can but there's definitely interactions. The weather turning so nice has helped as we've basically lived outside this week, but still. On top of it, my 2yo was already symptomatic on Monday with bad congestion and a cough. He woke up overnight with a fever. We presumed he had it, but brought him to the doctors to test for confirmation. Negative.

Yesterday, our 4yo started coughing. Woke up this morning with a fever, bad runny/congested nose all day. Took her to the doctor. Negative.

I've been negative this whole time as well.

 

This virus is baffling.

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39 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

My wife got a breakthrough infection earlier this week. Lost her sense of smell after dinner Monday night, took an at-home rapid test, positive almost immediately. We masked up quickly but had been sitting and talking, even shared a water bottle a couple hours earlier. We were both vaxxed with Pfizer back in the spring. She had a PCR test on Tuesday to confirm, yep, positive.

We also have a 2 and a 4 year old. Not exactly easy to isolate at that age. We're doing the best we can but there's definitely interactions. The weather turning so nice has helped as we've basically lived outside this week, but still. On top of it, my 2yo was already symptomatic on Monday with bad congestion and a cough. He woke up overnight with a fever. We presumed he had it, but brought him to the doctors to test for confirmation. Negative.

Yesterday, our 4yo started coughing. Woke up this morning with a fever, bad runny/congested nose all day. Took her to the doctor. Negative.

I've been negative this whole time as well.

 

This virus is baffling.

hope your wife gets better quickly and also hope you all are able to not get infected.  

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2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

My wife got a breakthrough infection earlier this week. Lost her sense of smell after dinner Monday night, took an at-home rapid test, positive almost immediately. We masked up quickly but had been sitting and talking, even shared a water bottle a couple hours earlier. We were both vaxxed with Pfizer back in the spring. She had a PCR test on Tuesday to confirm, yep, positive.

We also have a 2 and a 4 year old. Not exactly easy to isolate at that age. We're doing the best we can but there's definitely interactions. The weather turning so nice has helped as we've basically lived outside this week, but still. On top of it, my 2yo was already symptomatic on Monday with bad congestion and a cough. He woke up overnight with a fever. We presumed he had it, but brought him to the doctors to test for confirmation. Negative.

Yesterday, our 4yo started coughing. Woke up this morning with a fever, bad runny/congested nose all day. Took her to the doctor. Negative.

I've been negative this whole time as well.

 

This virus is baffling.

Damn Strange, hope she gets better soon. I know every case is unique, but when I had the breakthrough - as stupid as it seems - I tried to smell strong objects, like candles and deodorant to test if my smell was coming back. At first I couldn't smell them, then faintly, then gradually more and more until they fully returned. Tracking my sense of smell was fairly consistent with my overall symptoms. 

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10 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

Yes we agree. and there will be billions of people unvaccinated. imagine going into africa where 400,000 die of malaria a year and telling them that the 177k that died via covid is a bigger deal. those are apples and oranges, but vaccinating the world is a tall, tall task. whether this started out of a lab or a wet market ... look at that point of origin ... eradicating it is probably off the table. 

And two teachers dying ... sad ... aren't they eligible for the vaccine? they should've been getting said vaccine. Right? Like we can't as a society hold back and keep distancing and wearing masks, etc. for the people who've made a decision that goes against science. you have to keep moving forward. those who refuse the vaccine are making their own choice and have to live w hte consequences. 

One offer I thought should have been made from teachers unions is to mandate vaccines for all teachers and in turn, all students mask up until a certain vaccination threshold is reached in schools and the masks get removed. I have no idea how well that would work or how much pushback there would be but it was just an idea.

9 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

For what - spend all that money on the exceptions. How is anyone going to prove that they were aware of the symptoms at the time, etc, especially since many are asymptomatic to begin with.  Are you really going to fault someone who shows up in a store, doesn't know they are sick, doesn't wear a mask (because in that jurisidiction it is there right not to)....I mean come on now. That is getting to the point of extreme.  

Reality is - at some point we are going to have to live with this - likely after the rest of the population has access to a good and safe vaccine (i.e., children who are not yet eligible) and at that point -> boosters should get improved and we are going to have to deal with this.  

I do wonder how well living with the virus floating around and being vaccinated will go, particularly if the kids are vaccinated and more employer mandates get more people to take the vaccine. Is the goal to make cases more manageable and not overrun hospitals with getting as many people vaccinated as possible, getting boosters each year and wearing masks during the peaks of the virus each year? I’m not sure we have all figured the goal for the future and dealing with this virus yet, but science changes with new evidence so I just think we don’t know yet.

8 hours ago, mqr said:

At the end of the day the real issue is we're still not getting shots into kids

You mean, the ones who are 12 and up? I’m wondering what parents are more likely to vaccinate their kids, those with older or younger kids? Are some parents concerned about the long term impacts of the vaccine or that the vaccine isn’t fully FDA approved? It would be good to study further.

8 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

simply put, yes. this. 

the other hardest part is trying to decipher what we are chasing as a society .... zero transmission? zero deaths? zero deaths that are preventable? we don't have a clear goal, so then it gets jumbled and complicated. 

 

One of my conservative friends at work (both he and I are vaccinated) and I were trying to figure out the answer to the question, do vaccines help slow the spread of the virus? Regardless of if they do or not, what is the goal? Is it getting most people vaccinated and the rest are at risk of hospitalization or death and the rest of us get a yearly booster shot (so cases rise but we avoid hospitalizations and deaths)? Anyway, it goes along with your point.

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

My wife got a breakthrough infection earlier this week. Lost her sense of smell after dinner Monday night, took an at-home rapid test, positive almost immediately. We masked up quickly but had been sitting and talking, even shared a water bottle a couple hours earlier. We were both vaxxed with Pfizer back in the spring. She had a PCR test on Tuesday to confirm, yep, positive.

We also have a 2 and a 4 year old. Not exactly easy to isolate at that age. We're doing the best we can but there's definitely interactions. The weather turning so nice has helped as we've basically lived outside this week, but still. On top of it, my 2yo was already symptomatic on Monday with bad congestion and a cough. He woke up overnight with a fever. We presumed he had it, but brought him to the doctors to test for confirmation. Negative.

Yesterday, our 4yo started coughing. Woke up this morning with a fever, bad runny/congested nose all day. Took her to the doctor. Negative.

I've been negative this whole time as well.

 

This virus is baffling.

I hope you and your children don’t get it, my wife and I sent our son to daycare and he got a nice cold which got spread to us. We are both vaccinated but we thought it was possible we got covid from the daycare. Luckily it was a bad cold and my wife tested negative, which HR asked for because she and I had fevers. It’s tough to keep everyone safe…

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8 hours ago, The Beast said:

 

One of my conservative friends at work (both he and I are vaccinated) and I were trying to figure out the answer to the question, do vaccines help slow the spread of the virus? Regardless of if they do or not, what is the goal? Is it getting most people vaccinated and the rest are at risk of hospitalization or death and the rest of us get a yearly booster shot (so cases rise but we avoid hospitalizations and deaths)? Anyway, it goes along with your point.

Yes, including with Delta, being vaccinated dramatically decreases the chances of transmitting the virus. Early studies show that vaccinated people who have a true breakthrough infection can transmit the virus while they are symptomatic. However, the vaccines decrease the number of symptomatic people who can transmit it, and they decrease the length of time that people can transmit it when they are infected, both of which decrease transmission overall. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html)

It makes sense to me thinking about antibodies and viruses. Right after you are vaccinated (or right after you recover from an earlier infection), your body has lots of leftover antibodies and it also keeps a blueprint around for how to make more. If you get exposed to a small number of viruses then, those antibodies just deal with it, and that person never becomes infected and never can transmit. If you get exposed to a large dose, or maybe if the virus finds a way to reproduce somehow without the body seeing it (don’t ask how, this virus is crafty), then you can get a rare breakthrough infection before the body can produce more antibodies. Once you have enough virus in your nose in that case, you can transmit it. But, your body has seen the thing, gone back to the blueprints, and is churning out more antibodies to catch up with the virus, and as soon as it does, you stop being contagious. So, less cases that are infectious, and shorter duration. A vaccinated person may very well have less virus in their nose to shed, but that is going to be harder to prove because you can’t infect the same person while they’re both vaccinated and unvaccinated at the same time to test it, only a population-wide study could test that.

The body doesn’t keep spare antibodies around forever, so the ability to keep a person sterilized against most breakthrough infections does decline over time. Hence the discussion of booster shots and cases where people have repeat infections. But, if a person is masked and gets a smaller dose, that probably helps the body catch up even if the person is exposed. This also fits with data showing a dramatically higher risk of severe disease in vaccinated people who are immune compromised, since their bodies would have produced fewer antibodies in the first place and would be slower to respond to a new infection by making more.

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9 hours ago, Quin said:

Damn Strange, hope she gets better soon. I know every case is unique, but when I had the breakthrough - as stupid as it seems - I tried to smell strong objects, like candles and deodorant to test if my smell was coming back. At first I couldn't smell them, then faintly, then gradually more and more until they fully returned. Tracking my sense of smell was fairly consistent with my overall symptoms. 

Losing her sense of smell was the worst of it. And she first confirmed it how you described. She couldn't smell our kids' shampoo at bath time, so she tried some perfume and a burnt match. When she couldn't smell anything from those, she knew something was up and took one of the rapid tests we got as part of our "back to school" supplies. It's already started coming back but in strange ways--she could smell the olive oil we were cooking with, but not the very fragrant garlic sautéing in it for example. Mainly, "earthy" smells like that or beans are coming back.

We can't run the counterfactual in real life to know, but there's a pretty good chance that my wife's vaccination both made this an incredibly mild infection for her and reduced her transmissibility. 

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3 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Losing her sense of smell was the worst of it. And she first confirmed it how you described. She couldn't smell our kids' shampoo at bath time, so she tried some perfume and a burnt match. When she couldn't smell anything from those, she knew something was up and took one of the rapid tests we got as part of our "back to school" supplies. It's already started coming back but in strange ways--she could smell the olive oil we were cooking with, but not the very fragrant garlic sautéing in it for example. Mainly, "earthy" smells like that or beans are coming back.

We can't run the counterfactual in real life to know, but there's a pretty good chance that my wife's vaccination both made this an incredibly mild infection for her and reduced her transmissibility. 

That's kind of how it was for me. I caught it while in Chicago for my cousin's wedding. No one at the wedding tested positive - including my fiance, who had been in close proximity to me the entire time unless I was in the bathroom.

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Had a breakthrough infection last month. No kids and my wife was working nights so she didn't get it from me.

It wasn't pleasant, but I'm double jabbed with Moderna so my body fought it off quickly. Fever lasted about 2 days. The intermittent cough persisted for almost three weeks 

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Interesting to see when guys like Joe Rogan contract the virus, all of the bluster (anti-masks, anti-vaccinate, healthy people are ok, etc) becomes “give me all the drugs” and I’m quarantining so my family doesn’t get it.

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12 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Interesting to see when guys like Joe Rogan contract the virus, all of the bluster (anti-masks, anti-vaccinate, healthy people are ok, etc) becomes “give me all the drugs” and I’m quarantining so my family doesn’t get it.

What i don't get is - they won't take an experimental vaccine - but they will take a shitton of other experimental meds.  

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2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

What i don't get is - they won't take an experimental vaccine - but they will take a shitton of other experimental meds.  

Better to die with rope worms than to live and admit you were wrong I guess

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Just now, Chisoxfn said:

What i don't get is - they won't take an experimental vaccine - but they will take a shitton of other experimental meds.  

People aren't thinking for themselves. They're buying into what they're reading on social media and hearing on OAN. They don't stop to think that what they're consuming might not make logical sense.

My mom had a patient who years ago had beat cancer twice, both with experimental treatments that were on EUA and not yet fully approved, who she had in the ICU with COVID because he wouldn't take the COVID vaccine because it was only EUA and not fully approved. He didn't make it. The only difference was that nobody was filling up his Facebook feed with false info about the dangers of cancer treatments that are "only" EUA.

Until you find a way to convince people that they're being lied to, it's not going to get better. The only thing that seems to be getting through to people is having family members die.

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32 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

What i don't get is - they won't take an experimental vaccine - but they will take a shitton of other experimental meds.  

Rogan took monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, a Z pack, prednisone and a vitamin drip. None of those treatments are experimental. Putting the vitamin drip aside, all of those drugs are FDA approved. In fact, exclusive of the monoclonal antibodies, all of these treatments are generic so they've been on the market and have had FDA patents for over 20 years. The drugs are covered by the media as experimental when they are anything but because the pharmaceutical companies have every incentive to create a new drug/treatment for covid that can generate profits. Additionally, so many people say "you're not a doctor, trust the professionals" when someone doesn't want the vaccine, wouldn't the same be true when evaluating Rogan's doctor's approach? My dad got pneumonia in the summer and when he was awaiting his covid results (he was negative) his doctor said if the test came back positive they would quickly shift to a cocktail of treatments just like Rogan's doctor prescribed. 

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41 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

People aren't thinking for themselves. They're buying into what they're reading on social media and hearing on OAN. They don't stop to think that what they're consuming might not make logical sense.

My mom had a patient who years ago had beat cancer twice, both with experimental treatments that were on EUA and not yet fully approved, who she had in the ICU with COVID because he wouldn't take the COVID vaccine because it was only EUA and not fully approved. He didn't make it. The only difference was that nobody was filling up his Facebook feed with false info about the dangers of cancer treatments that are "only" EUA.

Until you find a way to convince people that they're being lied to, it's not going to get better. The only thing that seems to be getting through to people is having family members die.

This is an excellent post. It's not all cut and dried, though. There's somebody like me. I got both doses at my scheduled times with some fear but I made the decision to trust the people telling me I need to be vaxxed. For me that's not easy to do. I dont want to get political and can't get political on the board as it's not allowed, but I simply do not trust big pharm, I do not trust either political party (If you and I had a beer I could give you examples of BOTH SIDES making BLATANT LIES. Yes lies. Not stretching the truth. Lies not necessarily on covid but other issues as well).

That said, the fact I believe COVID is real (I frankly don't want to lose sense of smell/taste) and I don't want to lose all capacity to breathe and die by suffocating from the fact I'm unable to breathe. Hence ... I, who am fully educated (h.s. and college degrees) have deduced that I need to trust enough to be vaccinated to hopefully avoid a horrendous death (and avoid infecting others and killing them). This would be a no brainer if I trusted those in charge which I do not.

At the same time, the idea of a third shot, which is coming, scares me, annoys me, makes me again have trust issues with big pharm and politicians. My guess is I will get the booster the first day it's offered, but trust me, not everybody vaccine hesitant is a freaky nutjob. Some people do not trust as mentioned above and have reason to not trust. Should we just "shut up and be vaccinated?" Maybe but some of us are scared to be vaxxed. In my case the fear of covid symptoms outweighs my distrust hence the shot wins.

Peace out.

Edited by greg775

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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

 I simply do not trust big pharm, I do not trust either political party

Lucky for you the FDA is not controlled by big pharm or either political party, so you don't have to trust those entities to feel good about getting a vaccine the FDA has approved.

Also, the booster shot is the same stuff as the first two just some more of it, so I don't know why you'd be scared of something you've already had two of with little to no problems.

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5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Rogan took monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, a Z pack, prednisone and a vitamin drip. None of those treatments are experimental. Putting the vitamin drip aside, all of those drugs are FDA approved. In fact, exclusive of the monoclonal antibodies, all of these treatments are generic so they've been on the market and have had FDA patents for over 20 years. The drugs are covered by the media as experimental when they are anything but because the pharmaceutical companies have every incentive to create a new drug/treatment for covid that can generate profits. Additionally, so many people say "you're not a doctor, trust the professionals" when someone doesn't want the vaccine, wouldn't the same be true when evaluating Rogan's doctor's approach? My dad got pneumonia in the summer and when he was awaiting his covid results (he was negative) his doctor said if the test came back positive they would quickly shift to a cocktail of treatments just like Rogan's doctor prescribed. 

Why take any meds? Why quarantine away from his family? He’s said if you’re young and healthy, exercise, eat right - you don’t need to worry about it. I guess it’s different when he gets it.

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5 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Lucky for you the FDA is not controlled by big pharm or either political party, so you don't have to trust those entities to feel good about getting a vaccine the FDA has approved.

 Also, the booster shot is the same stuff as the first two just some more of it, so I don't know why you'd be scared of something you've already had two of with little to no problems.

Where do you believe the FDA's funding is coming from?

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7 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Lucky for you the FDA is not controlled by big pharm or either political party, so you don't have to trust those entities to feel good about getting a vaccine the FDA has approved.

Also, the booster shot is the same stuff as the first two just some more of it, so I don't know why you'd be scared of something you've already had two of with little to no problems.

I enjoy your posts, making points without insulting anybody. ... I won't comment on the FDA as I haven't educated myself on that entity enough. Your second paragraph is compelling and makes me think. I think some of us who are afraid still fear the possibility of vaccine related problems down the line. I also have to get the flu and shingles shots so all that mixing and matching of vax in my body sort of troubles/scares me, too. Just giving my perspective. ..,. I guess we're all going to die someday anyway so I shouldn't stress as much as I may do.

Edited by greg775

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2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think some of us who are afraid still fear the possibility of vaccine related problems down the line.

If the effects of the vaccine were long lasting, you wouldn't need the third shot. It's not like the good effects can wear off in 6 months but the bad ones can pop up 2 years later.

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Just now, Middle Buffalo said:

Why take any meds? Why quarantine away from his family? He’s said if you’re young and healthy, exercise, eat right - you don’t need to worry about it. I guess it’s different when he gets it.

He said "don't worry about it" not that he doesn't believe in it. "Don't worry about it" doesn't mean ignore it and spread it. They guy is a workout freak who is insanely wealthy. He wanted to feel shitty for less time. I don't know what's hard to understand about it. 

I got strep in July. I never worried about it before I got it. After recovering from it I still don't worry about it. I still got antibiotics and stayed home until I wasn't contagious anymore.

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I will say my mood fluctuates and after reading this (which I choose to believe is true) I truly pray everybody can avoid COVID. The symptoms of this disease are fricking unreal. Like I said earlier, I always have believed COVID is real, that's why I 'reluctantly' have chosen to obey all medical recommendations and have received 2 doses of moderna with a booster coming I guess. I'd give awards to all medical personnel who have treated severe covid patients. Breaks my heart all around.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-08-26/pandemic-covid-19-stages-vaccination-intensive-care-respiratory-therapist?fbclid=IwAR2TNq5TezEJvK6budgTRIgArKrfeKd2UkaUR9IzzktWhW83_l_0vmw3pUE

Edited by greg775

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32 minutes ago, raBBit said:

He said "don't worry about it" not that he doesn't believe in it. "Don't worry about it" doesn't mean ignore it and spread it. They guy is a workout freak who is insanely wealthy. He wanted to feel shitty for less time. I don't know what's hard to understand about it. 

I got strep in July. I never worried about it before I got it. After recovering from it I still don't worry about it. I still got antibiotics and stayed home until I wasn't contagious anymore.

Yep. Strep and COVID are exactly the same.

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1 hour ago, raBBit said:

Rogan took monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, a Z pack, prednisone and a vitamin drip. None of those treatments are experimental. Putting the vitamin drip aside, all of those drugs are FDA approved. In fact, exclusive of the monoclonal antibodies, all of these treatments are generic so they've been on the market and have had FDA patents for over 20 years. The drugs are covered by the media as experimental when they are anything but because the pharmaceutical companies have every incentive to create a new drug/treatment for covid that can generate profits. Additionally, so many people say "you're not a doctor, trust the professionals" when someone doesn't want the vaccine, wouldn't the same be true when evaluating Rogan's doctor's approach? My dad got pneumonia in the summer and when he was awaiting his covid results (he was negative) his doctor said if the test came back positive they would quickly shift to a cocktail of treatments just like Rogan's doctor prescribed. 

So, the person said he took "experimental drugs", and your reply is he took "one experimental drug and one drug not approved for treatment of this disease, along with a steroid of a variety that is not approved for treatment but which has been studied", and you are somehow disputing that he took an "experimental drug"?

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1 hour ago, raBBit said:

He said "don't worry about it" not that he doesn't believe in it. "Don't worry about it" doesn't mean ignore it and spread it. They guy is a workout freak who is insanely wealthy. He wanted to feel shitty for less time. I don't know what's hard to understand about it. 

I got strep in July. I never worried about it before I got it. After recovering from it I still don't worry about it. I still got antibiotics and stayed home until I wasn't contagious anymore.

That he refused an alternative option, a vaccine, that can accomplish the exact same thing, and advised a great number of people that he was doing so.

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1 hour ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Yep. Strep and COVID are exactly the same.

My lady and I both had strep in July and Covid in October. Experiences ranked from best to worst:

1 - Me, Strep
2 - Her, Covid
3 - Me, Covid
4 - Her, Strep

This stuff affects people differently. For young healthy people, COVID isn't always a worse experience than the flu or strep or anything else. Strep could've been worse for me too. I started coming down with the symptoms while waiting with her at intensive care so I got antibiotics really early on.  

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