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Chisoxfn

COVID Thread Part Deux

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So, the person said he took "experimental drugs", and your reply is he took "one experimental drug and one drug not approved for treatment of this disease, along with a steroid of a variety that is not approved for treatment but which has been studied", and you are somehow disputing that he took an "experimental drug"?

That's not what I said you can just refer to what I said no need to twist things. 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That he refused an alternative option, a vaccine, that can accomplish the exact same thing, and advised a great number of people that he was doing so.

So it seems like you're saying he had multiple choices and you don't like the one he chose? Should only people who get the vaccine have access to remedies? If the vaccine is limiting the severity of the virus like the data we're given shows, wouldn't the people who aren't vaccinated be the ones more likely to need treatments?

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So, the person said he took "experimental drugs", and your reply is he took "one experimental drug and one drug not approved for treatment of this disease, along with a steroid of a variety that is not approved for treatment but which has been studied", and you are somehow disputing that he took an "experimental drug"?

Also, why are you questioning him for taking what his doctor prescribed? You're not a doctor of medicine or a medical professional, who are you to question them?

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19 minutes ago, raBBit said:

My lady and I both had strep in July and Covid in October. Experiences ranked from best to worst:

1 - Me, Strep
2 - Her, Covid
3 - Me, Covid
4 - Her, Strep

Um, ok.

Not sure what that has to do with me saying Rogan preached that COVID’s no big deal for a healthy person, and then he acted totally the opposite when he got it. He did what we should. He did the smart thing. But he told his 100s of 1000s of listeners no to worry.

Anyway, I know you like to get the last word, so you can have it if you want. I won’t respond to your next nonsensical post. I promise.

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53 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Also, why are you questioning him for taking what his doctor prescribed? You're not a doctor of medicine or a medical professional, who are you to question them?

Yea i Know, everyone who criticizes a medical treatment without being a doctor should get some scorn. And it should be exponentially worse for a person with a huge audience!

 

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yea i Know, everyone who criticizes a medical treatment without being a doctor should get some scorn. And it should be exponentially worse for a person with a huge audience!

 

I love Rogan's show. I wish him speedy recovery from COVID. He is not a bad person, folks. His show has a kind vibe to it. He's one of those people who embrace life. I usually agree with his takes which is a positive, too for me.

Edited by greg775

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13 hours ago, raBBit said:

My lady and I both had strep in July and Covid in October. Experiences ranked from best to worst:

1 - Me, Strep
2 - Her, Covid
3 - Me, Covid
4 - Her, Strep

This stuff affects people differently. For young healthy people, COVID isn't always a worse experience than the flu or strep or anything else. Strep could've been worse for me too. I started coming down with the symptoms while waiting with her at intensive care so I got antibiotics really early on.  

Hospitals aren't being overwhelmed with strep, and strep doesn't kill hundreds of thousands of people.

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Aren't the monoclonal antibodies still under EUA, anyway? That would make them more "experimental" than the Pfizer vaccine at this point.

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Joe Rogen is such a douche.  Even if you’re 21 and think you’re low risk, how about think about the people who aren’t low risk that you might spread this shit to.  I live in Nashville and am surrounded by devout Christians and their hypocrisy is incredible.  They claim to “love thy neighbor” but refuse to get vaccinated or wear masks.  When will people realize this shit isn’t just about you?  Living in the south is so fucking infuriating.

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On 9/3/2021 at 7:57 AM, Balta1701 said:

Yes, including with Delta, being vaccinated dramatically decreases the chances of transmitting the virus. Early studies show that vaccinated people who have a true breakthrough infection can transmit the virus while they are symptomatic. However, the vaccines decrease the number of symptomatic people who can transmit it, and they decrease the length of time that people can transmit it when they are infected, both of which decrease transmission overall. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html)

It makes sense to me thinking about antibodies and viruses. Right after you are vaccinated (or right after you recover from an earlier infection), your body has lots of leftover antibodies and it also keeps a blueprint around for how to make more. If you get exposed to a small number of viruses then, those antibodies just deal with it, and that person never becomes infected and never can transmit. If you get exposed to a large dose, or maybe if the virus finds a way to reproduce somehow without the body seeing it (don’t ask how, this virus is crafty), then you can get a rare breakthrough infection before the body can produce more antibodies. Once you have enough virus in your nose in that case, you can transmit it. But, your body has seen the thing, gone back to the blueprints, and is churning out more antibodies to catch up with the virus, and as soon as it does, you stop being contagious. So, less cases that are infectious, and shorter duration. A vaccinated person may very well have less virus in their nose to shed, but that is going to be harder to prove because you can’t infect the same person while they’re both vaccinated and unvaccinated at the same time to test it, only a population-wide study could test that.

The body doesn’t keep spare antibodies around forever, so the ability to keep a person sterilized against most breakthrough infections does decline over time. Hence the discussion of booster shots and cases where people have repeat infections. But, if a person is masked and gets a smaller dose, that probably helps the body catch up even if the person is exposed. This also fits with data showing a dramatically higher risk of severe disease in vaccinated people who are immune compromised, since their bodies would have produced fewer antibodies in the first place and would be slower to respond to a new infection by making more.

This is an outstanding and important post. Thank you Balta, this helps answer our question. I sent the link and section that talks about it and he appreciates it too.

19 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

What i don't get is - they won't take an experimental vaccine - but they will take a shitton of other experimental meds.  

And they would rather get the virus, which we also don’t know what the long term impact of yet is, rather than get the now FDA approved Pfizer vaccine.

52 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Joe Rogen is such a douche.  Even if you’re 21 and think you’re low risk, how about think about the people who aren’t low risk that you might spread this shit to.  I live in Nashville and am surrounded by devout Christians and their hypocrisy is incredible.  They claim to “love thy neighbor” but refuse to get vaccinated or wear masks.  When will people realize this shit isn’t just about you?  Living in the south is so fucking infuriating.

The spread is who I am more concerned with rather than the hosts, since some of the hosts you simply can’t reason with which is too bad. I would love to know what another conservative friend from work who is from Tennessee thinks and if he actually got the vaccine. I guess we will see if he and others remain with the organization past November 1 and have the vaccine unless he and others got a medical or religious exemption approved from HR (which can’t be the easiest thing to fake).

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7 hours ago, The Beast said:

And they would rather get the virus, which we also don’t know what the long term impact of yet is, rather than get the now FDA approved Pfizer vaccine.

What's interesting about this point you make is, once the person gets covid, he/she will have a TON of medications they've never even heard of put in their body to try to keep them alive. And they'll gladly accept those medications for Covid relief.

If it's a bad case of covid, think of all the medications you'll be taking! Either way a lot of unknown stuff will be cascading thru your body. That's another reason my brain deduced I would take the vaccine over not taking it. And I'll take the booster and the flu shot and the shingles shot .... I pray I'm OK and I won't be selfish and also pray for everybody else to be OK.

Edited by greg775
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14 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Aren't the monoclonal antibodies still under EUA, anyway? That would make them more "experimental" than the Pfizer vaccine at this point.

They’re effective when used correctly, they’re fine, people who are getting tested a lot and catch it early should take it every time. But damnit, you can have your body make the same stuff early, and get the benefit of training T Cells with a vaccine!

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So what's the deal with the booster, the real facts? Do we look at our cards and sign up eight months after dose No. 2?  When do we need it? This booster stuff is gonna be wild. I'm thinking a lot of people will have catching up to do since so many haven't taken doses 1 or 2.

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37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

So what's the deal with the booster, the real facts? Do we look at our cards and sign up eight months after dose No. 2?  When do we need it? This booster stuff is gonna be wild. I'm thinking a lot of people will have catching up to do since so many haven't taken doses 1 or 2.

Early data says the booster is incredible…I will be getting mine when they say to do so…but I know moderna needed to go back and get some data cleaned up that will delay their boosters…but early results in Israel have been extremely promising…as in 4 or 5 times stronger than the original vac (which was already amazing). 

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As a Colts fan it's amazing to hear some of their players say they won't get vaccinated because they don't know the long term effects while playing a sport that scrambles your brains.

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Well considering that Covid is so easy to get over and is less impactful than the flu to the anti-vax crowd.  How about this.  Let's just have them sign a waiver.  If you get covid and need emergency procedures to save your life, you get a lovely flower arrangement and get sent home.  Take all of the dewormer you want, take all of the other nonsense witch doctor shit that is being peddled.  My wife had to wait 24 hours last week to get admitted to a hospital for something serious because of the mouth breathers and their 3rd-grade version of science.  I don't need family members dying because the ER is filled with morons who go oh, yeah I can't breathe.  Well, this isn't what I signed up for.   I am a strong republican. The anti-vaxxers can all go fuck themselves.   Maybe we can have Polio come back because the human body's defense systems are so good.  We are at a point in evolution where we can do amazing things to save lives due to science.  But the human condition is the one aspect that will even that out.  

Edited by southsideirish71
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On the production that I'm working on, I contracted Covid 19 from someone a month ago. It seems like every week, there's been a couple new cases of covid in this production. Luckily I've been vaccinated and my symptoms were very, very mild but as someone with a fake heart and very bad lungs, I was terrified. The first couple of nights in quarantine were very scary as I couldn't breathe. Luckily, I was able to avoid going to the hospital.

I don't know what it will take for the unions to step up and demand that only vaccinated people be hired on to productions going forward but its well past time. We're around each other for up to 16 hours a day regularly. Mask are just a first line of defense, there's more that can be done to protect everyone.

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28 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

On the production that I'm working on, I contracted Covid 19 from someone a month ago. It seems like every week, there's been a couple new cases of covid in this production. Luckily I've been vaccinated and my symptoms were very, very mild but as someone with a fake heart and very bad lungs, I was terrified. The first couple of nights in quarantine were very scary as I couldn't breathe. Luckily, I was able to avoid going to the hospital.

I don't know what it will take for the unions to step up and demand that only vaccinated people be hired on to productions going forward but its well past time. We're around each other for up to 16 hours a day regularly. Mask are just a first line of defense, there's more that can be done to protect everyone.

Someone else just tested positive in the minutes since I posted this

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31 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

On the production that I'm working on, I contracted Covid 19 from someone a month ago. It seems like every week, there's been a couple new cases of covid in this production. Luckily I've been vaccinated and my symptoms were very, very mild but as someone with a fake heart and very bad lungs, I was terrified. The first couple of nights in quarantine were very scary as I couldn't breathe. Luckily, I was able to avoid going to the hospital.

I don't know what it will take for the unions to step up and demand that only vaccinated people be hired on to productions going forward but its well past time. We're around each other for up to 16 hours a day regularly. Mask are just a first line of defense, there's more that can be done to protect everyone.

Very sorry to hear this.  Hopefully things are getting better for you!

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It seems like a month ago some people that I know who have been vaxxed and got Covid experienced very few problems. Minor illness, back to work in about 10 days whenever the quarantine period ended. ... Now it seems those vaxxed contracting covid are undergoing much more severe symptoms including the dreaded need for oxygen in hospital. What's going on? 

As a vaxxed person I don't like the fact vaxxed peeps are getting covid and getting it bad. ... I also don't like reports there was some contaminated third shot moderna in Israel or somewhere that caused major problems. I don't want contaminated vax perhaps causing major problems in my body.

 

Finally ... crowds of over 100,000 fans in some stadiums for football. No masks at said games. ... Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel "many, most?" Americans think Covid will be here forevermore like the flu and basically don't give a s--t anymore. It's like, 'It's here. I'm vaxxed. If I get it I get it." Some peeps like me still really don't wanna get it. 

Seems silly that last year at this time we had no fans or 10 percent capacity and now covid is actually worse a year later and we're going with 100,000 fans. What.A.World.

Edited by greg775

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6 hours ago, greg775 said:

It seems like a month ago some people that I know who have been vaxxed and got Covid experienced very few problems. Minor illness, back to work in about 10 days whenever the quarantine period ended. ... Now it seems those vaxxed contracting covid are undergoing much more severe symptoms including the dreaded need for oxygen in hospital. What's going on? 

 

What is your source for "it seems those vaxxed contracting covid are undergoing much more severe symptoms"?

My mom's only had a handful of breakthrough cases out of hundreds in her hospital, all of whom were 70+ years old.

I do think we need to get the 6 month booster approved ASAP. The first to get vaccinated, which includes a lot of the elderly, are now 7-8 months out from their 2nd dose.

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5 hours ago, greg775 said:

It seems like a month ago some people that I know who have been vaxxed and got Covid experienced very few problems. Minor illness, back to work in about 10 days whenever the quarantine period ended. ... Now it seems those vaxxed contracting covid are undergoing much more severe symptoms including the dreaded need for oxygen in hospital. What's going on? 

As a vaxxed person I don't like the fact vaxxed peeps are getting covid and getting it bad. ... I also don't like reports there was some contaminated third shot moderna in Israel or somewhere that caused major problems. I don't want contaminated vax perhaps causing major problems in my body.

 

Finally ... crowds of over 100,000 fans in some stadiums for football. No masks at said games. ... Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel "many, most?" Americans think Covid will be here forevermore like the flu and basically don't give a s--t anymore. It's like, 'It's here. I'm vaxxed. If I get it I get it." Some peeps like me still really don't wanna get it. 

Seems silly that last year at this time we had no fans or 10 percent capacity and now covid is actually worse a year later and we're going with 100,000 fans. What.A.World.

The vast majority of vaccinated people who do get COVID have mild symptoms at worst.  There will always be the rare case where a vaccinated person has severe symptoms and requires hospitalization.  But to say more and more vaccinated people are experiencing severe symptoms is inaccurate.  Unvaccinated people are 29X more likely to require hospitalization.

As far as crowds at games, there is a vaccine.  There was not one last year.  That's the biggest difference.  Outdoor venues have lower risk than indoor venues, and that is why you're starting to see some indoor venues stating that being vaccinated or showing proof of a negative COVID test will be required for entry.

We always knew 100% of the population wouldn't get the vaccine, but remember back when it was being developed and they were saying a vaccine with 70% effectiveness would be great?  And the hope was that 70% of the population would get the vaccine?  That's pretty much where we are now with the vaccines being not as effective (but still quite effective) against the Delta variant.  We're not back to normal, whatever normal becomes, but we're in much better shape than last year.  We're still seeing most infections in the unvaccinated population.  This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and unless more people get vaccinated, we run the risk of more variants popping up that could be even more resilient to the vaccine.

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In terms of vaccinated people who have severe enough illness to require hospitalization, there is also a huge HUGE bias in this group. People with moderately to severely compromised immune systems represent less than 3% of the population (cancer patients on treatment, a number of autoimmune diseases, transplant patients). But, according to a Johns Hopkins study, they represent a whopping half of the vaccinated people who wind up in the hospital. It only took days after that study came out for the government to authorize 3rd booster shots for that group, because the bias is staggering.

While the booster shots are nice, that also means this group would hugely appreciate help from population immunity so that their exposure risk could drop.

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