Perspective

[RG23SoxFan]

9 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I don't see how you can blame Tony LaRussa for a lot of the things you blame him for. 

Why were the 2005 Sox so good in 1-run games?  You said it above -- they were a veteran team.  They had top of the line starting staff, and the bullpen didn't blow leads.  

Why are the current Sox sloppy?  Again, they have several rookies, and guys playing out of position.  Their current main backup catcher has 2 passed balls a night.  The 2005 Sox had Crede and Uribe and Iguchi.  (BTW - the Cesar Hernandez throw to third last night reminded me of one Iguchi turned in the 2005 playoffs.)

Is it poor bullpen management, or a bunch of relievers who are not reliable?  Did Tony LaRussa ruin Jason Kimbrell, or is he just not pitching as well as he was earlier in the year?  Did Tony cause Hendriks to tip his pitches against the Yankees?  Is Tony the reason Bummer goes through stretches where he can't throw strikes?  

Tony uses his whole roster, and it has been to very good effect for the most part.  Is that an "obsession" over platooning?  

********

Having said this, I would agree with the premise that the 2021 Sox have a much bigger hill to climb than the 2005 Sox.  The 2005 Sox went wire to wire, had the best record in baseball, and were the best team in baseball.  The 2021 White Sox can beat anyone if they are on their game, but they could also lose to anyone else in the playoffs if they aren't.  

Very good points, and I might add that I don't remember the 2005 team having the injuries that this team has played through.  I truly don't remember(getting old lol) if the 2005 team had injuries like this team, so I stand corrected if they did.

[CentralChamps21]

9 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Very good points, and I might add that I don't remember the 2005 team having the injuries that this team has played through.  I truly don't remember(getting old lol) if the 2005 team had injuries like this team, so I stand corrected if they did.

Just a first ballot hall of famer.

[ThirdGen]

The use of one run records to judge a manager is nonsense.  The Sox are also 15-7 in two run games which can also be decided by one manager's decision.  They are 11-6 in three run games, also close.  Would LaRussa be a better manager if the Sox scored one or two less runs in those games?  He would have a better record.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ThirdGen
browser hung

[RG23SoxFan]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Just a first ballot hall of famer.

Yes, this is correct but he wasn't exactly in the prime of his career at that point either.  I am not sure that equates to the number of injuries this team has had but maybe.

[Greg Hibbard]

19 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

I agree the division is over, but what makes you think the Indians could win 84-86 games? They have played 120+ games and sit at .500 and to win 85 they would need to go 24-16.  I haven't really seen anything from them that they will play .600 baseball in their last 40 games.  Fangraphs has a projected win total for them at 79 which seems more likely to me.    

If they got hot and absolutely everything broke their way I could see them backing into a .600 ball stretch for 40 games. Heck, mediocre teams like the '12 White Sox are capable of playing .600 ball over 40 games.

[ThirdGen]

4 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Yes, this is correct but he wasn't exactly in the prime of his career at that point either.  I am not sure that equates to the number of injuries this team has had but maybe.

As I recall, the Sox knew before the season he would likely miss a signficant amount of time and had replaced him.  This wasn't comparable to Robert or Jimenez situations.

[RG23SoxFan]

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

If they got hot and absolutely everything broke their way I could see them backing into a .600 ball stretch for 40 games. Heck, mediocre teams like the '12 White Sox are capable of playing .600 ball over 40 games.

I don't disagree that it could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it lol.  

[Greg Hibbard]

Just now, RG23SoxFan said:

I don't disagree that it could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it lol.  

I wouldn't either - I just think that's the absolute outlier of the result, and 89-90 would be the absolute outlier of the white sox result.

Which is exactly why I think the division is over.

[SonofaRoache]

This team has played .500 ball for two months now. It is time to start considering getting hot if we want a WS banner. 

[RG23SoxFan]

Just now, Greg Hibbard said:

I wouldn't either - I just think that's the absolute outlier of the result, and 89-90 would be the absolute outlier of the white sox result.

Which is exactly why I think the division is over.

Yes, I have no concerns on the division and I don't expect it to really get very close.  I hope not, I don't need any gut wrenching games until October lol.

[CentralChamps21]

7 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Yes, this is correct but he wasn't exactly in the prime of his career at that point either.  I am not sure that equates to the number of injuries this team has had but maybe.

 

1 minute ago, ThirdGen said:

As I recall, the Sox knew before the season he would likely miss a signficant amount of time and had replaced him.  This wasn't comparable to Robert or Jimenez situations.

I don't have recall of 2005, so I had to look it up. Frank's game logs from that season were from May 30-Jul 20, so that suggests to me that they were expecting him to be out April-May but back the rest of the season and then he apparently got injured again. As for not being in the prime of his career, he put up a 140 OPS+ in 137 games the following year, so not prime Frank but still pretty damn good. Carl Everett had a 94 OPS+ in 2005.

[RG23SoxFan]

1 minute ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

 

I don't have recall of 2005, so I had to look it up. Frank's game logs from that season were from May 30-Jul 20, so that suggests to me that they were expecting him to be out April-May but back the rest of the season and then he apparently got injured again. As for not being in the prime of his career, he put up a 140 OPS+ in 137 games the following year, so not prime Frank but still pretty damn good. Carl Everett had a 94 OPS+ in 2005.

I didn't mean to suggest that he was poor at that time of his career.  It seems like this team has had a large number of injuries to some key players and I really can't remember what occurred with injuries in 2005.  

[ThirdGen]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

 

I don't have recall of 2005, so I had to look it up. Frank's game logs from that season were from May 30-Jul 20, so that suggests to me that they were expecting him to be out April-May but back the rest of the season and then he apparently got injured again. As for not being in the prime of his career, he put up a 140 OPS+ in 137 games the following year, so not prime Frank but still pretty damn good. Carl Everett had a 94 OPS+ in 2005.

Pretty sure he had surgery on his foot during the offseason, was expected to come back mid season, came back and reinjured it quickly, tried to fight through it but was awful and then had surgery again.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Frank being essentially a non-player for 2005 was the one thing that always saddened me about that season. His career was built to finally, at long last, climax as a factor on a Word Series team that year. 

[greg775]

7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox not only have to overcome solid playoff opponents but also their substandard manager, and substantial injuries. 

How can I take your post seriously when you say this about Hall of Famer LaRussa. The guy has done a masterful job amid all the injuries and actually is more baseball smart than any "expert" on this board. Yes he is. Substandard manager? Geez. Suffice it to say no manager in this day and age of analytics can survive scrutiny. I'd say in a significant percentage of losses in close games you can point to 3-4 second-guess instances involving the manager costing the team the game.  LaRussa does a fine job with what's available to him. I can't take your long post seriously when you make a statement like that about a Hall of Famer/grade A manager.

Edited August 24, 2021 by greg775

[NWINFan]

Although I am always a nervous fan, I don't see the Indians overtaking the Sox. Winning the division, even a bad division, will be a big step for the franchise since it hasn't won a division title in 13 years. But I have doubts about the post season. In a tense short series, you can't let your offense go dormant and your bullpen has to, at least, protect multi-fun leads if you get them. The team has been in first a long time, and it has been entertaining this year. But I've had an uneasy feeling about them. I don't know if the World Series will happen this season.

[NWINFan]

6 minutes ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

Frank being essentially a non-player for 2005 was the one thing that always saddened me about that season. His career was built to finally, at long last, climax as a factor on a Word Series team that year. 

If Frank would have been healthy in 2005, something tells me the Sox would never have worried about a challenge from Cleveland.

[wegner]

5 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Although I am always a nervous fan, I don't see the Indians overtaking the Sox. Winning the division, even a bad division, will be a big step for the franchise since it hasn't won a division title in 13 years. But I have doubts about the post season. In a tense short series, you can't let your offense go dormant and your bullpen has to, at least, protect multi-fun leads if you get them. The team has been in first a long time, and it has been entertaining this year. But I've had an uneasy feeling about them. I don't know if the World Series will happen this season.

I can't remember the last time we had a fun lead, let along multiple ones. 

But seriously, it would be nice to have a couple of laughers....might have to wait until this weekend for those.

[mqr]

1 hour ago, RG23SoxFan said:

Yes, this is correct but he wasn't exactly in the prime of his career at that point either.  I am not sure that equates to the number of injuries this team has had but maybe.

He was still a hell of alot better than Carl Everett

[MexSoxFan#1]

I don't subscribe to the notion that because the 2005 team struggled in the latter half of the season and picked it up right before the postseason and were dominant in the playoffs that this team will do the same but all the same I get what the OP is trying to say. What I find frustrating is that the Sox lineup on paper is too good to be having these lackluster offensive performances, especially having a couple of our big bats back in the lineup. Hopefully it's them still getting their rhythm back and a few guys needing rest, fortunately the Indians and the rest of the Central aren't really a threat and since TLR is already making it a priority of resting guys, that strategy will pan out later this year. I have my qualms about LaRussa but he has a proven record of being able to manage championship teams, hopefully he can retire as world series winning manager for the first franchise he managed for.

Edited August 24, 2021 by MexSoxFan#1

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

This team has played .500 ball for two months now. It is time to start considering getting hot if we want a WS banner. 

Under .500 starting at the 1st time they went 21 over .500 which was maybe a month or so ago ? They can't crack that barrier.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Under .500 starting at the 1st time they went 21 over .500 which was maybe a month or so ago ? They can't crack that barrier.

I think that's how it goes with most teams, go on an extended run of being really hot and then just kinda okay before and after. The sox hottest run just came early at this point. Hopefully they get hot again

[RG23SoxFan]

40 minutes ago, mqr said:

He was still a hell of alot better than Carl Everett

I am not debating that, he was clearly still a great player.  I am just not sure that one injury compares to the number of injuries they have had this season.  Maybe they had several other significant injuries in 2005 that I am not remembering.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

31 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

I don't subscribe to the notion that because the 2005 team struggled in the latter half of the season and picked it up right before the postseason and were dominant in the playoffs that this team will do the same but all the same I get what the OP is trying to say. What I find frustrating is that the Sox lineup on paper is too good to be having these lackluster offensive performances, especially having a couple of our big bats back in the lineup. Hopefully it's them still getting their rhythm back and a few guys needing rest, fortunately the Indians and the rest of the Central aren't really a threat and since TLR is already making it a priority of resting guys, that strategy will pan out later this year. I have my qualms about LaRussa but he has a proven record of being able to manage championship teams, hopefully he can retire as world series winning manager for the first franchise he managed for.

I 'm hoping that with 15 games left. He starts playing the every day guys a lot more. He can rest them as much as he wants now to a point. But they do have to start playing together and especially winning together. Once Grandal is back I want to see at least a 5 game winning streak and put this division away even though we know somewhere deep insidethe division is won. There's always the bit of doubt I'd like to see wiped out.

I know this team can have fun but do they have a Jordanesque killer instinct ?

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, VAfan said:

I don't see how you can blame Tony LaRussa for a lot of the things you blame him for. 

Why were the 2005 Sox so good in 1-run games?  You said it above -- they were a veteran team.  They had top of the line starting staff, and the bullpen didn't blow leads.  

Why are the current Sox sloppy?  Again, they have several rookies, and guys playing out of position.  Their current main backup catcher has 2 passed balls a night.  The 2005 Sox had Crede and Uribe and Iguchi.  (BTW - the Cesar Hernandez throw to third last night reminded me of one Iguchi turned in the 2005 playoffs.)

Is it poor bullpen management, or a bunch of relievers who are not reliable?  Did Tony LaRussa ruin Jason Kimbrell, or is he just not pitching as well as he was earlier in the year?  Did Tony cause Hendriks to tip his pitches against the Yankees?  Is Tony the reason Bummer goes through stretches where he can't throw strikes?  

Tony uses his whole roster, and it has been to very good effect for the most part.  Is that an "obsession" over platooning?  

I was told by Hahn his manager search would consist of interviews of candidates with recent postseason experience.

I was told that Tony would never be “outmanaged”, that he and his teams would always come prepared.

I was told he (.571) was better than Rick Renteria (.583).

I was told a lot of things.