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lostfan

Have we ever had a player with as much raw talent as Luis Robert?

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1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

This thread is bad karma. Dude's gonna get hurt or go into a massive slump if this continues.

The guy sucks. He's never hit for the cycle, never had a 3 HR game, and hasn't magically transformed Eloy into a gold glove left fielder. Hell, he didn't even play 100 games his rookie season. What kind of superstar can't even play 100 games as a rookie?

I, too, possess this special negative power but it only seems to work on the Bears but I'll give it a try 

Luis Robert is a bust. Another embarrassing failure by our scouting department. 

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I agree with your comments.  Allen doesn't come to mind for today's fan because he didn't play the majority of his career with the WS.  He was a show stopper when it was his turn to bat.

 

I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 😂

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23 minutes ago, lostfan said:

I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 😂

I understand.  But when the discussion is about the best WS player of all time...for one season he is probably the winner.

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23 minutes ago, lostfan said:

I asked a version of this question on Facebook and a guy said Richie Allen, I was like bro I'm 39 not 69 😂

I am 53. I recall Dick (Richie) Allen was an absolute idol although I was too young to judge his talent. The jersey day promotion was a red pinstripe with his number, and it was just a t-shirt. Wish I had it today.

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17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am not going to say this lightly, but the man has Trout tools.  The big thing he needs to do is stay healthy.  If he can play 150 games a season, he will be an MVP level guy.  He has it all.  The Sox have never had a guy with the whole package like Luis has.  We have had a HOF hitter in Frank, but he couldn't field to save his life.  We have had insane defenders, who couldn't hit.  We had guys like Magglio Ordonez who fielded pretty well, and could hit the shit out of the ball, but didn't have ++ speed.

If Luis Robert stays healthy, he is a human cheat code.

So, Adam Engel?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Without answering yet…don’t forget the names Acuna and Franco while making lists like this. Maybe Soto too?

Yes, fair point. Of course if I am going back for Bo I should include Griffey, Jr. as well. Anyway, I suppose this probably all belongs in a thread of its own...

Edited by SpringfieldFan

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12 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I'm very encouraged both by this approach at the plate pre-injury, as well as the fact he's been able to build upon that success since coming back.

That said, it's incredibly premature to be asking questions about him being one of the best White Sox of all time.  The tools are there but there have been a ton of guys who have come into this league as 5-tool threats who just drifted out of the game without ever reaching their potential.  

I'm seriously excited for what he could do for this franchise but let's pump the brakes a bit on the GOAT talk until he plays an entire season or two.

No one said he IS that.  Even the thread title is about RAW TALENT.  Everyone in here is talking about what he COULD be.

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2 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

This is a tough question because I can only answer according to the players I have witnessed. I saw Dick Allen but was to young to judge talent so I would say Luis has the most raw talent. Imagine you were given a hat with these names and you get to keep the name you draw. Which would you hope you pick?

Luis

Ohtoni

Tatis, Jr.

Trout

A young healthy Bo Jackson

Ohtani.  Not only is he still cheap, but he is also a superstar hitter AND pitcher.

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I understand.  But when the discussion is about the best WS player of all time...for one season he is probably the winner.

Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here.

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I wish there was a way to go back and use the tools we currently use to evaluate players to evaluate players from previous generations.

I recall Dick Allen having insane power.  But I wonder how his exit velocity would compare to Robert and Jimenez.  The size and strength of today's players makes players from the 70's and 80's look like high school kids.  Frank was part of the first generation that were built like that (many through modern science).

A lot of people blame cell phones and a lack of attention for the need to screen in the stands.  The real reason is that the current generation of players- 1 through 9- hit the ball a hell of a lot harder than prior generations did.

I do believe Robert has the ability to retire as the Sox GOAT.   I've never seen such raw all around talent.

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here.

Yes, that is true...and for the same reason as Allen.  For me, that comparison would be easily won by Allen but Belle is certainly in the conversation.

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15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Albert Belle doesn't get enough credit here.

a 7 fWAR, 162 wRC+ season, gotta be top 10 all time for the Sox I'd imagine.  But he only really had the one year.

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Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

a 7 fWAR, 162 wRC+ season, gotta be top 10 all time for the Sox I'd imagine.  But he only really had the one year.

He was talking about short term wonders (one season even)

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Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime.

Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player.

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7 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said:

Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime.

Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player.

To be fair, Harold Reynolds has a high opinion of everyone as a baseball player.

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18 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said:

Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime.

Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player.

Bo was a great athlete, maybe one of the best of all time, but he wasn't a great baseball player.

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21 minutes ago, Bossanoveralls said:

Bo Jackson was the best pure raw talent athlete I have seen in my lifetime.

Harold Reynolds has a very high opinion of him as a baseball player.

I have said this before, and will say it again.  Luis Robert is Bo Jackson if he had two good hips and played only baseball.

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he will win an MVP and my guess during our next 2-4 year run. We already have the leg up of a winning team which helps with votes, but overall, yes like everybody is saying here he's a freak. If he can stay healthy, and if he is let loose on the base paths plus utilized at the 3-4-5 spot? easily can win a MVP. 

 

Just looking at it through the Hawk eye test? He makes Yoan and Eloy look pedestrian at times. Should be fun!

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31 minutes ago, Quin said:

To be fair, Harold Reynolds has a high opinion of everyone as a baseball player.

Everyone didn't throw a strike from the warning track to get Harold out at the plate.

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37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Bo was a great athlete, maybe one of the best of all time, but he wasn't a great baseball player.

He absolutely was on the path to becoming one.  And his numbers prior to his hip blowing up were nothing to scoff at

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1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

He absolutely was on the path to becoming one.  And his numbers prior to his hip blowing up were nothing to scoff at

I just don't see it.  He was a 3 WAR player at 27 and it was by far his best year.  For all his athletic gifts he could not hit breaking balls to save his life and defensively he was bad by every advanced metric.  Maybe he could have put it together and had a couple 5 WAR seasons, but that's a very optimistic projection given the swing and miss in his game and the not just mediocre but outright bad defense. It's hard to be negative run values in CF but he was that on both Fangraphs and B-Ref.  Maybe those metrics are just wrong, but I'll take them over the eye test.

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5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I just don't see it.  He was a 3 WAR player at 27 and it was by far his best year.  For all his athletic gifts he could not hit breaking balls to save his life and defensively he was bad by every advanced metric.  Maybe he could have put it together and had a couple 5 WAR seasons, but that's a very optimistic projection given the swing and miss in his game and the not just mediocre but outright bad defense. It's hard to be negative run values in CF but he was that on both Fangraphs and B-Ref.  Maybe those metrics are just wrong, but I'll take them over the eye test.

The guy never had an off-season.  If he actually picked a sport, either sport, he could have been HOF caliber.  He did things that normal baseball players cannot do, based on pure athleticism.  

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