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Chisoxfn

2021 NFL Season Thread

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

And I agree with you, basically 100%. 

George has to make the call here, no one argues that. And it's hopefully the last important football decision he has to make in a very long while. But again, in my eyes, using Bill Polian is fine (although I think the game has passed him by in a lot of ways and would have liked a younger name) but then George says the GM and HC will report directly to George. So is George now getting MORE involved with the day-to-day football side of things? 

There is my issue. Ted should have NO involvement with football (that didn't happen today) and George should put together a committee to find a new Football Ops President, and let that guy and that guy alone report to George, but the GM and HC will report to the Football Ops President (That didn't happen today either.) 

Instead we got George telling us how pissed Mom is and while they used this same process to hire Emery and Pace...this time it's going to be different. 

Someone has to hire the top football guy and it isn't going to be a football guy in this situation, they have both been fired. I don't trust the franchise to hire one good football guy, why would I trust them to hire a President and a GM? When that doesn't work out next time it will be hire a CEO to hire a President to hire the GM. 

Find a good GM and get the hell out of the way, again. 

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3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Hard pass.  It's Harbaugh or bust for me.  

He's at the top of my list, but there are a couple of possibilities that wouldn't cause me to throw up in my mouth.

Really I think the GM spot is more critical. I prefer the two spots be independent of each other. I wouldn't want to settle on a weak GM candidate if that's what it takes to get Harbaugh. (We don't know it would, but it seems like a possibility based on his public comments)

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6 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Someone has to hire the top football guy and it isn't going to be a football guy in this situation, they have both been fired. I don't trust the franchise to hire one good football guy, why would I trust them to hire a President and a GM? When that doesn't work out next time it will be hire a CEO to hire a President to hire the GM. 

Find a good GM and get the hell out of the way, again. 

Wrong. They put together a committee that seems like it is headed by Bill Polian, so the next "Top Football Guy" for the Bears will infact be hired by a "football guy." 

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

Wrong. They put together a committee that seems like it is headed by Bill Polian, so the next "Top Football Guy" for the Bears will infact be hired by a "football guy." 

*old and out of touch football guy

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It may be battling semantics here but it appears they are recommending, not having the power to negotiate and sign contracts. If he listens to them great. 

And I don't have to remind you the Bears history of fucking things up in contact negotiations with a HC.

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27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

*old and out of touch football guy

Your presumption - I don't know that I would say that. Lets not just say because someone is old they are out of touch.  My presumption from interviews I have heard is that Polian is still pretty connected to the game and I think he still understands what it takes at high level, especially when it comes to identifying talented individuals, etc.  Polian has ran 3 organizations and led them to superbowl appearances.  That is as impressive as it gets.  So resume wise - they probably picked as good of a person as possible and it seems like they at least talked to Dungy (although wouldn't verbally confirm that out of respect to whom they discussed the process).  

 

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27 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It may be battling semantics here but it appears they are recommending, not having the power to negotiate and sign contracts. If he listens to them great. 

And I don't have to remind you the Bears history of fucking things up in contact negotiations with a HC.

I am like you that I prefer the two candidates to be independent of each other.  I realize one technically needs more power than the other - but you want them very well connected and able to collaborate. I also want the two parties to feel confident challenging each other and having the right tough questions. Disagreements can be healthy and it is those uncomfortable conversations (between HC and GM and with scouts) that likely will push people to the best answers/outcomes anyway.  

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54 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I am like you that I prefer the two candidates to be independent of each other.  I realize one technically needs more power than the other - but you want them very well connected and able to collaborate. I also want the two parties to feel confident challenging each other and having the right tough questions. Disagreements can be healthy and it is those uncomfortable conversations (between HC and GM and with scouts) that likely will push people to the best answers/outcomes anyway.  

That's my only Harbaugh worry. He seems to want a portion of the GM role as well. 

It seems from a distance that the Bears ownership doesn't seem to meddle too much so it's probably a great fit for a GM. 

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25 minutes ago, Texsox said:

That's my only Harbaugh worry. He seems to want a portion of the GM role as well. 

It seems from a distance that the Bears ownership doesn't seem to meddle too much so it's probably a great fit for a GM. 

This - I have always said Bears ownership is so hands off it has to be an almost ideal role for a gig. They also have committed funding in recent years so you have budget and freedom. You build a sustainable winner - and you literally are king of Chicago. 

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6 hours ago, Heads22 said:

Or maybe he just wants back some of what he gave up before the season. Leverage for him with Michigan or leverage for him for a pro job? I tend to think he's trying to cash in without moving anywhere

Either way.  For all we know, his agent is planting those stories about NFL teams wanting him.  All in good clean fun, right?

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I wonder if the Bears will look at Louis Reddick for the GM job.

But in any case... here's hoping those buffoons at Halas Hall pull a rabbit out of their ass this time and get the right guy(s).

Edited by SoxAce

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9 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Why? The Browns have had continuous high draft picks and besides last year have been a poor franchise on the field. Honest question. 

The real, short answer is I liked this profile a lot, and before he was with the Browns he was coming through ops and analytics depts in San Francisco.
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/new-vp-of-football-ops-kwesi-adofo-mensah-knows-what-it-takes-to-win-ready-to-wo

I also read this article, from a writer I often don't like because I think he's a front runner, but it was very persuasive
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/22869889/nfl-coaching-carousel-avoid-mistakes

So I may be drawn more to non-scout hires.

In Baseball, virtually every org now is pretty damn smart, and the GMs they hire vary in background from scouting to analytics, but a lot of Asst GMs have good experience running large organizations. In Basketball, they don't just hire good scouts to GMs but now people with good player relationships, or player development, cap management, etc.

In football for GMs you target good scout dept leads from the teams that drafted well and hope to recreate that. For coaches you hire good offensive or defensive coordinators and hope they can recreate that in a higher role. That's it, and it seems a complete crapshoot.

The article points out some of the top and longest lasting GMs now weren't scouts but came from cap management side and operations - Howie Roseman, Mickey Loomis, and Brandon Beane. The GM role means handling a large organization, needing to smartly handle the cap, and crucially unlike baseball where your talent pipelines are largely set each year (or basketball where it's basically one pick a year), in football that can change drastically based on decisions of the GM. So you can have someone who is a good scout, find great players, but not balance out what it takes to acquire those players vs the cap and depth needed. Hi Ryan Pace.

And unless you are Ozzie Newsome, draft success ebbs and flows, and if the first few years miss, good luck. 

In short, I like his profile.

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7 hours ago, Texsox said:

That's my only Harbaugh worry. He seems to want a portion of the GM role as well. 

It seems from a distance that the Bears ownership doesn't seem to meddle too much so it's probably a great fit for a GM. 

I will say re: Harbaugh I don't know if it's as much wanting absolute say in personnel like Gruden or making sure he doesn't get stabbed in the back like he was with Baalke.

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More good stuff here re: GMs to keep in mind:

 

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Reaching out to Rick Smith & Jeff Ireland is excellent news.  No doubt it’s possible one of these less experienced candidates would be better, but I’m not sure I trust McCaskey to gauge that appropriately, even with Polian providing input.

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Regarding the head coach position, sounds like five confirmed candidates so far and more surely will come:

  • Doug Pederson (HC/OC)
  • Brian Daboll (OC)
  • Nathanial Hackett (OC)
  • Leslie Frazier (HC/DC)
  • Todd Bowles (HC/DC)

From my perspective, all else being equal, I want an offensive-minded head coach.  Simply put, I think there is much more risk replacing an OC than there is a DC, so stabilize the offense with a HC on that side of the ball.  As such, the remaining guys I hope they pursue are Harbaugh, Roman, McDaniels, Leftwich, & Day.

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I like Pederson, but I am not interested in Bowles.

I've heard mixed things about Frazier.

Can anyone fill me in about Daboli and Hackett?

 

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Regarding the head coach position, sounds like five confirmed candidates so far and more surely will come:

  • Doug Pederson (HC/OC)
  • Brian Daboll (OC)
  • Nathanial Hackett (OC)
  • Leslie Frazier (HC/DC)
  • Todd Bowles (HC/DC)

From my perspective, all else being equal, I want an offensive-minded head coach.  Simply put, I think there is much more risk replacing an OC than there is a DC, so stabilize the offense with a HC on that side of the ball.  As such, the remaining guys I hope they pursue are Harbaugh, Roman, McDaniels, Leftwich, & Day.

Leftwich now too.

Also enjoyed this. Basically no rhyme or reason to hiring, but as I said the college coaches bias is overblown. All coaches are terrible, we just remember college coaches more because they are novel and usually dominated their previous level:

https://github.com/mnhardy-da/NFL-Head-Coach-Study/blob/main/2022 NFL Head Coaching Study v2.ipynb

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Might have missed it - but Rick Smith officially on GM interview list.  Dan Quin added to HC list too.  

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5 hours ago, bmags said:

The real, short answer is I liked this profile a lot, and before he was with the Browns he was coming through ops and analytics depts in San Francisco.
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/new-vp-of-football-ops-kwesi-adofo-mensah-knows-what-it-takes-to-win-ready-to-wo

I also read this article, from a writer I often don't like because I think he's a front runner, but it was very persuasive
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/22869889/nfl-coaching-carousel-avoid-mistakes

So I may be drawn more to non-scout hires.

In Baseball, virtually every org now is pretty damn smart, and the GMs they hire vary in background from scouting to analytics, but a lot of Asst GMs have good experience running large organizations. In Basketball, they don't just hire good scouts to GMs but now people with good player relationships, or player development, cap management, etc.

In football for GMs you target good scout dept leads from the teams that drafted well and hope to recreate that. For coaches you hire good offensive or defensive coordinators and hope they can recreate that in a higher role. That's it, and it seems a complete crapshoot.

The article points out some of the top and longest lasting GMs now weren't scouts but came from cap management side and operations - Howie Roseman, Mickey Loomis, and Brandon Beane. The GM role means handling a large organization, needing to smartly handle the cap, and crucially unlike baseball where your talent pipelines are largely set each year (or basketball where it's basically one pick a year), in football that can change drastically based on decisions of the GM. So you can have someone who is a good scout, find great players, but not balance out what it takes to acquire those players vs the cap and depth needed. Hi Ryan Pace.

And unless you are Ozzie Newsome, draft success ebbs and flows, and if the first few years miss, good luck. 

In short, I like his profile.

To me - it all depends on how you structure your front office (to your point). Is the GM really kind of the "president" and your acting GM's are below you - with very experienced, highly paid, and obviously strong college & Pro scouting directors and maybe even an ultimate player personel director that serves over them...kind of giving you a structure like a president, gm, and directors (but just with different titles - obviously right comp and right empowerment).  

If you are going with him as the GM - than I do think you need to put that structure in place - make huge hires underneath him (or identify you have someone you really like within - maybe it is Champ Kelly, maybe it isn't).  But if the Bears are looking at a more typical structure/unwilling to make that change - than I don't know that as a GM he will work well as I feel like they will be putting too much responsibility on his plate that probably doesn't fit his strengths. 

If I interviewed him - it would be really important to understand how he works with others, collaborates with others. I do like fact that he worked with some smart minds in San Francisco and at least have intrigue at the thought of different.  

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IMO, the number one priority for the Bears is the development of Fields at QB.

Jim Harbaugh, despite having some of the top QB recruits in the nation since 2015, has failed to develop a good QB at Michigan.

My choices for HC would be any one of Greg Roman, Kellen Moore and Byron Leftwich.

Roman not only transformed the Ravens offense (in mid season no less) to Lamar Jackson's skill set, but also did the same with the 49ers and Kaepernick years earlier.

Moore is a coach's son who was calling his own plays at age 16 in H.S. He's helped develop Prescott and make Dallas a top notch offense. Reminds me of Sean McVay.

Leftwich has been Arians' right hand man for a while. If his offensive/QB philosophy is the same - I'm assuming it is - then he'll be a solid HC.

 

Also, I would see what it would take to nab Jarod Mayo from the Pats staff to be the DC. Give him an Assistant HC/DC title and offer him more money and maybe he comes?

 

The combo of these two would cost less than just Harbaugh alone and would put us on a better path IMO.

 

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16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

To me - it all depends on how you structure your front office (to your point). Is the GM really kind of the "president" and your acting GM's are below you - with very experienced, highly paid, and obviously strong college & Pro scouting directors and maybe even an ultimate player personel director that serves over them...kind of giving you a structure like a president, gm, and directors (but just with different titles - obviously right comp and right empowerment).  

If you are going with him as the GM - than I do think you need to put that structure in place - make huge hires underneath him (or identify you have someone you really like within - maybe it is Champ Kelly, maybe it isn't).  But if the Bears are looking at a more typical structure/unwilling to make that change - than I don't know that as a GM he will work well as I feel like they will be putting too much responsibility on his plate that probably doesn't fit his strengths. 

If I interviewed him - it would be really important to understand how he works with others, collaborates with others. I do like fact that he worked with some smart minds in San Francisco and at least have intrigue at the thought of different.  

I also have just heard good things about what Cleveland is doing in their front office. Baker's injuries and muted play have capped that team a bit when their defense can't dominate. But, it's a good exercise to look back and see that the late 90s, early 00s Chicago Bears front office somehow had a ton of great scouting and front office talent and yet we had garbage results. 

He definitely would need to pair himself with good talent scouts, but I wouldn't be surprised if even in our building there is plenty to work with.

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5 minutes ago, GIDP said:

IMO, the number one priority for the Bears is the development of Fields at QB.

Jim Harbaugh, despite having some of the top QB recruits in the nation since 2015, has failed to develop a good QB at Michigan.

My choices for HC would be any one of Greg Roman, Kellen Moore and Byron Leftwich.

Roman not only transformed the Ravens offense (in mid season no less) to Lamar Jackson's skill set, but also did the same with the 49ers and Kaepernick years earlier.

Moore is a coach's son who was calling his own plays at age 16 in H.S. He's helped develop Prescott and make Dallas a top notch offense. Reminds me of Sean McVay.

Leftwich has been Arians' right hand man for a while. If his offensive/QB philosophy is the same - I'm assuming it is - then he'll be a solid HC.

 

Also, I would see what it would take to nab Jarod Mayo from the Pats staff to be the DC. Give him an Assistant HC/DC title and offer him more money and maybe he comes?

 

The combo of these two would cost less than just Harbaugh alone and would put us on a better path IMO.

 

Harbaugh got a lot of credit for improving Alex Smith's play in San Fran, and hired Roman.

Among the reason you hire Harbaugh is he should be able to put together a terrific staff. The idea that you are hiring a head coach to do a very specific job just seems flawed. 

And a lot of people have reminded people of McVay, including Nagy. It's not easy to recreate. Moore has an incredible offensive set of talent to work with. McVay and Shanahan were doing excellent stuff on a pretty crappy Redskins offense. It's really hard to parse that stuff.

Not to say Moore will be bad, but it's not obvious that it all will translate.

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Add Brian Flores to the HC list. I think he's on top of my wish list. 

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