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Chisoxfn

2021 NFL Season Thread

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You hire Harbaugh because he will be the loudest voice in the building.  That's the only way this structure has a chance to work.  It worked with Ditka and Lovie because they had the balls to say we're doing it my way.  It didn't work with Wanny, Jauron, Trestman (good lord Trestman), and Nagy because they were all giant pussies.  The way I see it there are only 2 coaches who have the juice to run the organization and that's Harbaugh and Sean Payton but it doesn't sound like Payton is a viable option so Harbaugh has to be the guy.  If they hire yet another first year coach or another shitty retread we'll be back here again in 4-5 years.  Make Harbaugh an offer he can't refuse.

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2 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Add Brian Flores to the HC list. I think he's on top of my wish list. 

Yeah I'm happy about that. I still am not totally sure the background but it sure seems like most are rallying to his side. Feels like in general when there is an organizational power struggle the guy pushed out has been the better one in the NFL (bill o'brien-rick smith, Harbaugh-Baalke). So, I only have two examples actually.

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21 minutes ago, bmags said:

I also have just heard good things about what Cleveland is doing in their front office. Baker's injuries and muted play have capped that team a bit when their defense can't dominate. But, it's a good exercise to look back and see that the late 90s, early 00s Chicago Bears front office somehow had a ton of great scouting and front office talent and yet we had garbage results. 

He definitely would need to pair himself with good talent scouts, but I wouldn't be surprised if even in our building there is plenty to work with.

I actually like the fact that they didn't sign Baker to an extension. Shows me they are realist in their views before totally tying up their franchise.  That said - I do feel like the Browns consistently underperform, but you are right, they have valid excuses in terms of having their QB play pretty dinged up / miss games this year. It is why finding a QB can be so hard.  There are jut so many of them so no matter how smart you are as a front office / head coach, sometimes the reality is you can only do so much at QB.  I do like how they have handled draft capital more recently, but some of their other moves and ability to evaluate the personality equation has probably been a miss.  

I just get nervous with getting anyone from an org that has such a history of suckitude. That said - if they really have turned the corner, you could be getting a great candidate who actually understands how to get rid of the stink.  

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9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

You hire Harbaugh because he will be the loudest voice in the building.  That's the only way this structure has a chance to work.  It worked with Ditka and Lovie because they had the balls to say we're doing it my way.  It didn't work with Wanny, Jauron, Trestman (good lord Trestman), and Nagy because they were all giant pussies.  The way I see it there are only 2 coaches who have the juice to run the organization and that's Harbaugh and Sean Payton but it doesn't sound like Payton is a viable option so Harbaugh has to be the guy.  If they hire yet another first year coach or another shitty retread we'll be back here again in 4-5 years.  Make Harbaugh an offer he can't refuse.

I don't know man this guy seems up your alley

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article256841207.html

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1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Interesting. He doesn't have skins on the wall but he definitely has a set of balls.  I'll add him to the list.

Man turning that dolphins team last year into a 10 win team was one of the more impressive coaching feats I've ever seen. That roster was just a collection of stuff from the previous year. With awful QB play the first half between Tua and then injury, they still got to a winning record this year. That's pretty damn good.

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43 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

You hire Harbaugh because he will be the loudest voice in the building.  That's the only way this structure has a chance to work.  It worked with Ditka and Lovie because they had the balls to say we're doing it my way.  It didn't work with Wanny, Jauron, Trestman (good lord Trestman), and Nagy because they were all giant pussies.  The way I see it there are only 2 coaches who have the juice to run the organization and that's Harbaugh and Sean Payton but it doesn't sound like Payton is a viable option so Harbaugh has to be the guy.  If they hire yet another first year coach or another shitty retread we'll be back here again in 4-5 years.  Make Harbaugh an offer he can't refuse.

The offer he can't refuse may be a huge say in GM matters. 

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4 hours ago, knightni said:

I like Pederson, but I am not interested in Bowles.

I've heard mixed things about Frazier.

Can anyone fill me in about Daboli and Hackett?

 

Daboll has been instrumental in what the Bulls are doing on offense and Josh Allen’s growth into a top 5 QB. His offense is loaded with playmakers but you can see him being flexible during the year. He has a whole bunch of offensive line changes and a lot of COVID issues, but the Bills maintained a strong scoring punch. A great pair of games to highlight are the Patriot games (insert joke). The first Patriot game was awful weather, but Allen was able to make some throws. They didn’t recognize this and focused on the run with the Patriots ready to stop the run, and got behind in the first half. They were too slow to adapt that game and it cost them. The second Patriot game, they had much of their receiving core out for injury and COVID, but Isiah McKenzie was plugged into the game plan and had a ton of yards. They also mixed up calls far better and that was a dominant performance. Especially late in the season, you could also see how he adjusted to the run game when teams were becoming pass-rush heavy against them, and that was also big in their last 4 wins. He has also had a number of other players develop under him, including their pro bowl LT who has been out for COVID twice this season, Knox at TE, and Gabe Davis at WR.

Like Bieniemy, his job search has been slowed by his team going far in the playoffs, but it seems likely each will get a HC job one of these years.

If you want some criticisms, Allen definitely still has some games where he throws bad Int’s, and as noted they can be slow to adapt in game esp if Allen is off. Also, there was some sort of frustrating motivation issue with the Bills this year. The loss to the Jaguars was on the offense not being ready to go, it was really bad. Midseason they had a stretch against the Colts, Patriots, and Bucs where the offense wasn’t helping the defense and the defense was struggling, then they got down big at halftime of the Bucs game, everyone suddenly realized they were in trouble, and the whole energy of the team reappeared. They lost that game to OT Brady, but did so after storming back from a huge deficit, and have been on a roll since then. Is that story a positive or negative for that coaching staff? Perhaps both.

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1 hour ago, scs787 said:

Add Brian Flores to the HC list. I think he's on top of my wish list. 

I just don't like anything other than his actual results. I don't like what I've heard went down with him and the GM. Seemed like him more in the wrong than the GM. He has gone through DC's and OC's like crazy in his short tenure there. And quite frankly - I have very little thought of the BB disciples because I think what BB does is very unique to him and I think his assistants don't fully grasp that.  McDaniels might be the one I'm willing to try and even than I start to throw up a bit in my mouth just thinking about it.  

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8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Daboll has been instrumental in what the Bulls are doing on offense and Josh Allen’s growth into a top 5 QB. His offense is loaded with playmakers but you can see him being flexible during the year. He has a whole bunch of offensive line changes and a lot of COVID issues, but the Bills maintained a strong scoring punch. A great pair of games to highlight are the Patriot games (insert joke). The first Patriot game was awful weather, but Allen was able to make some throws. They didn’t recognize this and focused on the run with the Patriots ready to stop the run, and got behind in the first half. They were too slow to adapt that game and it cost them. The second Patriot game, they had much of their receiving core out for injury and COVID, but Isiah McKenzie was plugged into the game plan and had a ton of yards. They also mixed up calls far better and that was a dominant performance. Especially late in the season, you could also see how he adjusted to the run game when teams were becoming pass-rush heavy against them, and that was also big in their last 4 wins. He has also had a number of other players develop under him, including their pro bowl LT who has been out for COVID twice this season, Knox at TE, and Gabe Davis at WR.

Like Bieniemy, his job search has been slowed by his team going far in the playoffs, but it seems likely each will get a HC job one of these years.

If you want some criticisms, Allen definitely still has some games where he throws bad Int’s, and as noted they can be slow to adapt in game esp if Allen is off. Also, there was some sort of frustrating motivation issue with the Bills this year. The loss to the Jaguars was on the offense not being ready to go, it was really bad. Midseason they had a stretch against the Colts, Patriots, and Bucs where the offense wasn’t helping the defense and the defense was struggling, then they got down big at halftime of the Bucs game, everyone suddenly realized they were in trouble, and the whole energy of the team reappeared. They lost that game to OT Brady, but did so after storming back from a huge deficit, and have been on a roll since then. Is that story a positive or negative for that coaching staff? Perhaps both.

Bills fans do not like Daboll, inconsistent offense. They would not mind losing him. Josh is also inconsistent.

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1 minute ago, pcq said:

Bills fans do not like Daboll, inconsistent offense. They would not mind losing him. Josh is also inconsistent.

For an inconsistent offense, they're #5 in the league in yards/game and #3 in the league in points/game. They were #2 in points/game in 2020. They outscored KC both years. That's a quality level of performance. 

The motivation thing you saw in the Jags game concerns me as I don't know what the deal with that was this year. 

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5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For an inconsistent offense, they're #5 in the league in yards/game and #3 in the league in points/game. They were #2 in points/game in 2020. They outscored KC both years. That's a quality level of performance. 

The motivation thing you saw in the Jags game concerns me as I don't know what the deal with that was this year. 

So mid-season I was doubting Daboll;  I had said - I want to see how he handles adversity. How he handles the league making adjustments to his offense, etc.  What we saw with Nagy was the league adjusted and he had no idea how to adjust back. Daboll showed me he can adjust during the 2nd half of the year and that starts to make him a heck of a lot more attractive to me.

Moore is interesting - he clearly seems to be bright and innovative - but like Bmags mentioned - he has weapon(s) galore, so I don't know what to think of him. If you take him - you just got to buy all of his intangibles and other skillsets and assume he can escalate and bring it like McVay.  Given how much he's been around the game for a young age, the position he played in college, I wouldn't put it past them.

If they are going offense - I prefer these two to Leftwich. I discount anyone working with Brady and Arians as an offensive genius. I have no idea how to evaluate Leftwich (interviews would be pretty huge here).  With Andy Reid I worry less cause his coaches (despite Nagy's flop) have a pretty good success rate when they move on. I don't know what to think of Arians disciples.  That said - Leftwich is facing real adversity as a play caller late in the season - so he has a shot to show how he innovates here, but again, hard to know what is him driving it vs. Arians.  

Note: Harbaugh remains my strong preference while my preferred defensive candidates remain Quinn & Bowles (Colts DC is also intriguing - I need to read up on him).  

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Could even a defensive guy have a worse offense than Nagy? Never broke the top 20 in yards, and only only broke into the top 24 in points his first season. As incompetent as George and Ted appear, at least they are trying something new, so there is a chance the results will be better.

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What would it take to get Harbaugh.  7yr deal worth $75M or something like that?  5yr 60M?  Or am I way overshooting. I think he only makes like $4M at Michigan.  Could you get him more at a 7YR $45M.  5YR 35M? 

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16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

What would it take to get Harbaugh.  7yr deal worth $75M or something like that?  5yr 60M?  Or am I way overshooting. I think he only makes like $4M at Michigan.  Could you get him more at a 7YR $45M.  5YR 35M? 

FWIW, Dolphins owner is a huge Michigan booster and is working behind the scenes to get Harbaugh an extension and a raise to keep him there. He's my dream hire so we'll see where this goes. 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/report-jim-harbaugh-discussing-contract-extension-with-michigan/2725472/

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Harbaugh isn’t leaving Michigan guys.

if he does, I want a refund on my subscription of The Wolverine.

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8 minutes ago, Brian said:

Harbaugh isn’t leaving Michigan guys.

if he does, I want a refund on my subscription of The Wolverine.

Screenshot for future use

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Ed Dobbs is a really good front office name. Read some pretty good quotes / pieces on him. His resume / track record is pretty good with his time at the Colts and previous 10 years with the Seahawks, two very good orgs which have done a real excellent job drafting, etc.  

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Heard the same stuff about trying to leverage Harbaugh for more money. Until that happens, press forward on him. 

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48 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So mid-season I was doubting Daboll;  I had said - I want to see how he handles adversity. How he handles the league making adjustments to his offense, etc.  What we saw with Nagy was the league adjusted and he had no idea how to adjust back. Daboll showed me he can adjust during the 2nd half of the year and that starts to make him a heck of a lot more attractive to me.

Moore is interesting - he clearly seems to be bright and innovative - but like Bmags mentioned - he has weapon(s) galore, so I don't know what to think of him. If you take him - you just got to buy all of his intangibles and other skillsets and assume he can escalate and bring it like McVay.  Given how much he's been around the game for a young age, the position he played in college, I wouldn't put it past them.

If they are going offense - I prefer these two to Leftwich. I discount anyone working with Brady and Arians as an offensive genius. I have no idea how to evaluate Leftwich (interviews would be pretty huge here).  With Andy Reid I worry less cause his coaches (despite Nagy's flop) have a pretty good success rate when they move on. I don't know what to think of Arians disciples.  That said - Leftwich is facing real adversity as a play caller late in the season - so he has a shot to show how he innovates here, but again, hard to know what is him driving it vs. Arians.  

Note: Harbaugh remains my strong preference while my preferred defensive candidates remain Quinn & Bowles (Colts DC is also intriguing - I need to read up on him).  

I don't think you can completely discount Leftwich. 

For one, I like that he has had several years under him, not the third, one year iteration of his offensive coordinator.

I also look at that AZ thing as a positive. They did modestly improve with him, he had a truly horrendous QB and awful offensive line. He had to simplify everything and get David Johnson involved. Then he goes and works in Tampa with much better skill positions and gets Watson to have a career year, and then he gets Tom Brady. That's a good amount of experience.

I've also always liked him since Marshall.

Not my top 3 choices though.

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3 minutes ago, kwolf68 said:

Heard the same stuff about trying to leverage Harbaugh for more money. Until that happens, press forward on him. 

If his agent wasn't trying to get him a raise with all this buzz he should fire him and go get Jimmy Sexton immediately.

The guy is going to get paid a lot. But whatever decision he makes, he'll be both richer and have not made the decision based on money. Pretty sweet actually

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

If his agent wasn't trying to get him a raise with all this buzz he should fire him and go get Jimmy Sexton immediately.

The guy is going to get paid a lot. But whatever decision he makes, he'll be both richer and have not made the decision based on money. Pretty sweet actually

Yeah - Harbaugh is going to win in next week regardless. Either he stays at Michigan (because its his dream job) but gets a nice bump up in pay to do it or he gets an increase to go back to the NFL (if that is what his preference is). Either way - he's sitting pretty.  

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Yep Jim Harbaugh is in the cat bird's seat. To me, this is choice 1A and 1B, then we talk about other guys. He is a proven coach, not a retread, not a mystery coordinator. After hearing that Bears apparently offered Ozzie Newsome the GM job, maybe it tells me the Bears are going to play big this off-season. Get it done. 12 years since last playoff win is a travesty. 

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