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Chisoxfn

2021 NFL Season Thread

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2 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

How many of the candidates are outside of the "Polian" contact list.  We did this same song and dance with Ernie Acorsi before. If you are a friend of Polian, you are a finalist. Not having a GM has put us in a hole which could provide a scenario where all of the Tier 1 candidates are selected by other teams while we pick up Leslie Frazier because Georgie remembers him from when he was younger.  I am glad they are doing due diligence but at some point, I believe Polian was hired quite a bit back and should have been narrowing down the candidates well before this process started.  Its almost like they didn't know they were going to fire Nagy until Sunday night.  This smells too much like JR picking a manager based on righting an earlier wrong.  Oh I remember you, you were on one of my staffs or know someone I knew.  

This seems contradictory. First you are complaining these are all just Polians guys, then that he should have narrowed his list prior to the interviewing. They've interviewed 12 GM candidates from 11 different orgs by my count. They only interviewed 4 guys when Pace was selected.

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8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

HC wise - I wonder if they land on Quinn.  I do think if it is Brown as the GM - we see Eferus hired, but I think if it is Poles/Khan - Quinn is my guess (as I'm resigned to fact it won't be Daboll/Harbaugh).  

I think Quinn is like 2:1 favorite for Denver.

I do think at this point we are looking at Eberflus as a strong favorite here. If the Raiders land Dodds/Harbaugh I'll be pretty bummed. Bummed by the raiders.

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1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

HC wise - I wonder if they land on Quinn.  I do think if it is Brown as the GM - we see Eferus hired, but I think if it is Poles/Khan - Quinn is my guess (as I'm resigned to fact it won't be Daboll/Harbaugh).  

I just can’t comprehend hiring a defensive oriented HC with the development of Fields being the most important task for this organization.  I’d honestly rather have old man Caldwell than any of these defensive guys and that’s terrifying in its own right.  I know I’m in the minority here, but get a HC who has proven he can develop young QBs and will build a system that’s tailored for Fields.  Daboll is just such a perfect fit based on what we all know, but it’s very possible he’s a got a ticket punched for NY.  If he’s not an option, I’d probably roll the dice on Leftwich.  Hell, even if they end up being just A to B guys who help Fields successfully grow into a quality NFL QB then it was the right hire.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I just can’t comprehend hiring a defensive oriented HC with the development of Fields being the most important task for this organization.  I’d honestly rather have old man Caldwell than any of these defensive guys and that’s terrifying in its own right.  I know I’m in the minority here, but get a HC who has proven he can develop young QBs and will build a system that’s tailored for Fields.  Daboll is just such a perfect fit based on what we all know, but it’s very possible he’s a got a ticket punched for NY.  If he’s not an option, I’d probably roll the dice on Leftwich.  Hell, even if they end up being just A to B guys who help Fields successfully grow into a quality NFL QB then it was the right hire.

I guess I just think this argument loses steam with me when you look at buffalo and that’s a defensive head coach, and then McVay just had to trade for an established vet. Shanahan bristling at dealing with Lance.

The one problem is Eberflus defense get a lot of takeaways but they scheme doesn’t seem amazing at confusing great QBs who take what it gives them and can execute easily

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I just can’t comprehend hiring a defensive oriented HC with the development of Fields being the most important task for this organization.  I’d honestly rather have old man Caldwell than any of these defensive guys and that’s terrifying in its own right.  I know I’m in the minority here, but get a HC who has proven he can develop young QBs and will build a system that’s tailored for Fields.  Daboll is just such a perfect fit based on what we all know, but it’s very possible he’s a got a ticket punched for NY.  If he’s not an option, I’d probably roll the dice on Leftwich.  Hell, even if they end up being just A to B guys who help Fields successfully grow into a quality NFL QB then it was the right hire.

This is where I differ - with the right head coach, presuming he has the ability to bring in a great staff and has a good plan - I am okay with the HC being defensive oriented in nature, as long as he has the special intangibles at the top.  But I clearly still prefer Daboll.  Leftwich I am okay with but he doesn't excite me any more or less than someone like Quinn or Bowles.  

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

I guess I just think this argument loses steam with me when you look at buffalo and that’s a defensive head coach, and then McVay just had to trade for an established vet. Shanahan bristling at dealing with Lance.

The one problem is Eberflus defense get a lot of takeaways but they scheme doesn’t seem amazing at confusing great QBs who take what it gives them and can execute easily

Like I posted previously, there were only four defensive-oriented HCs who made the playoffs this year out of 11 (36%).  Meanwhile, nine out 18 offensive-geared HCs (50%) made the playoffs.  Out of those playoff teams, six of the top eight (75%) are led by offensive minded coaches and all four teams that made the conference championships.  Massively small sample size admittedly, but it just feels like the league has shifted towards the offensive 

Also, I’m not suggesting it’s impossible for a defensive guy to be successful, but it requires them being able to find the right OC (perhaps multiple times) and that’s much harder IMO than finding a quality DC.  For example, who could Eberflus bring in as OC that would get you excited?  Vrabel has been successful hiring OCs, but he’s much more the exception than the rule.

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

I guess I just think this argument loses steam with me when you look at buffalo and that’s a defensive head coach, and then McVay just had to trade for an established vet. Shanahan bristling at dealing with Lance.

The one problem is Eberflus defense get a lot of takeaways but they scheme doesn’t seem amazing at confusing great QBs who take what it gives them and can execute easily

Eberflus is a Marinelli disciple. He runs Cover 2 as base. Cover 2 is always really good at creating turnovers but terrible at containing good QBs. The entire basis of Cover 2 is to make the opponent run a lot of plays, wait for them to make a mistake and pounce on it. They get shredded when the opposing offense doesn't make mistakes. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

This is where I differ - with the right head coach, presuming he has the ability to bring in a great staff and has a good plan - I am okay with the HC being defensive oriented in nature, as long as he has the special intangibles at the top.  But I clearly still prefer Daboll.  Leftwich I am okay with but he doesn't excite me any more or less than someone like Quinn or Bowles.  

Let me ask the same question I asked bmags, but who could Eberflus or Quinn bring in at OC that would get you excited?

Edited by Chicago White Sox

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Hoping for Morocco Brown but I wouldn’t be mad with Poles. I would absolutely hate the Quinn hire. 

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56 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Hoping for Morocco Brown but I wouldn’t be mad with Poles. I would absolutely hate the Quinn hire. 

DaBearsBlog says Poles is very pro Quinn.

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Like I posted previously, there were only four defensive-oriented HCs who made the playoffs this year out of 11 (36%).  Meanwhile, nine out 18 offensive-geared HCs (50%) made the playoffs.  Out of those playoff teams, six of the top eight (75%) are led by offensive minded coaches and all four teams that made the conference championships.  Massively small sample size admittedly, but it just feels like the league has shifted towards the offensive 

Also, I’m not suggesting it’s impossible for a defensive guy to be successful, but it requires them being able to find the right OC (perhaps multiple times) and that’s much harder IMO than finding a quality DC.  For example, who could Eberflus bring in as OC that would get you excited?  Vrabel has been successful hiring OCs, but he’s much more the exception than the rule.

Well one thing here - the assumption that an offensive head coach will consistently maintain a good offense. You should find a defensive guy that isn’t bored by dealing with the other side of the ball and have some point of view, and vice versa. And my main thing is what part of a wave are we at with offensive coaches? Guys are getting picked over with a year of success - whereas guys like Shanahan were able to develop for years before honing it in.

But as for OCs

Obviously Caldwell would be a slam dunk, and pains me to say it but Darrell Bevell would be a good choice for Fields.

Kevin OConnel could be lured with PC duties.

Honestly Dan Mullen would be intriguing to me.

 I still like Joe Brady. The offensive personnel in Carolina was ass and didn’t get better after he left. They just seemed like a poisonous culture.

I do want Pep Hamilton somewhere on staff.

But ultimately I don’t know these guys. I think stefanskis offense would work really well for Fields. But I want a staff that organizes around what’s good for him.

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So as resident Bears Shill, apparently, it seems things are circling around Ryan Poles - VP of Player Personnel as next GM.

There are things that I like and things that disappoint me. 

First - I was hoping this was going to be an opportunity for Bears to bring in a strong team with experience, because their org lacks guidance. Harbaugh was very attractive there, and obviously I started wanting a Full court press for Sean Payton. 

Omar Khan was my numero uno. And it seems he's out. I still think it's crazy not to trust that he made it that high up, in that org. 

But I also cannot know much about these guys. And I have to include that he interviewed last cycle and did not get a job. He is likely to be passed over in PIT when Colbert retires, and now once again likely to be passed over in cycle. 

Rick Smith apparently isn't ready to jump into things, and Dodds seems like a maniac and the bears are wimps. I'm a bit shocked that Morocco Brown is not a finalist.

Finalists:

Monti Ossenfort is resume-interesting but I can't help but notice that despite me being uber impressed by what TN has been doing - that since he's been there their drafts and pro acquisitions haven't been anything to write home about. The Tannehill resurgence was before he arrived, as well as Henry draft. Last year they drafted Isaiah Wilson despite character concerns and he character concerned his way out. Then Caleb Fairly this year despite injury concerns and well, he's injured.

Elliot Wolf was passed over in GB despite being an heir apparent, was part of the Dorsey years in CLE that were tumultuous and stunted a rising team, and then had an inspired run in NE. His background is incredible, but ...that Cleveland Tenure. The Packers passed over him. The NFL is often stupid, but I don't know. 

Now, I do think he's a person that can define the franchise and get away from the bumblingness of the mccaskeys. He's a strong NFL brand in that respect.

And lastly poles.

I had some heuristics for NFL GM after Pace. I wanted someone who had been in multiple orgs, held multiple positions, and their success could be isolated outside of just a great coach or QB.

So he's none of that. He's also young, and it scares me that he wowed the mccaskeys in an interview because they are idiots.

BUT - he's been a finalist now for every job he's interviewed for. He's apparently also a favorite in MN, and I admire that franchise a lot. His recommendations must be sterling. Brad Spielberger (PFF) did a podcast in december on likely GM candidates and listed Poles as his favorite because when he met him he was genuinely curious asking questions. He was hired up through 4 GMs in KC. He DID run multiple roles, handling scouting and now on both pro and contracts.

His curiosity is good and sounds like someone who wants to bring the smartest people in the room together including analytics. But he is a huge wild card. The pros of Dodds and M Brown are coming from Ballard where they have not been amazing but ran with strong discipline as a front office in terms of managing assets - which is key to me to be a sustained winner. What can we really tell from KC there? 

I don't really know the KC front office philosophy. I do know that for more than a decade they have been incredible drafters. Pre-Reid they seemed loaded with talent but poorly coached and quarterbacked. They've propelled multiple personnel to front offices. They have drafted loud athletes. But they have had Reid to develop them, especially the ones with character concerns that they've been burned less harshly than you'd expect. They don't hoard picks, they don't put themselves in terrible cap situations like the Saints. They've been very well balanced. That's good...but it also means I have no idea what this guy will do.

That's a scary proposition.

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Lambert is a very questionable source lol

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14 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lambert is a very questionable source lol

Oh I know that, but I think he’s simply looking at past connections and availability.  Just an interesting list of names to discuss, especially since there is a reasonably high chance we hire a defensive oriented HC.

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I wouldn’t be shocked given the excitement around the staff rumors with Quinn if he’s able to pull a McDaniel or OConnell into OC duties, or maybe the excitement is Doug Pederson as OC.

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Depending on if Poles nails the 2nd interview, it sounds like he is going to be the next GM of the Bears. The interviews scheduled for Wednesday sound like backup plans.

Edited by maloney.adam

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