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Chisoxfn

2021 NFL Season Thread

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3 hours ago, chw42 said:

They just need to trade for Matt Ryan.

No need to change the monogrammed towels in the locker room. Ted Phillips and the McCaskeys - always one step ahead of the league.

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3 hours ago, bmags said:

 

Look, I know next to nothing about Kevin Patullo, but hiring an inexperienced OC is the very reason I didn’t want a defensive-minded HC.

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So I haven't seen this name floated - but what happened to Jay Gruden.  I thought he was a pretty good offensive mind.  Could he be an option as an HC. I am sure someone will tell me he is already one somewhere in the league - but it felt like he disappeared from football after he got canned in Washington.  

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I'm underwhelmed, but a lot really depends now on who comes in as OC. 

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8 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm underwhelmed, but a lot really depends now on who comes in as OC. 

Agreed.  Dude needs to bring in excellent offensive staff.

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1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I'm underwhelmed, but a lot really depends now on who comes in as OC. 

I was listening to Wannstedt a couple of weeks ago. He is a Harbaugh guy. But what was interesting, considering he was the hot assistant at one time, was he said the key to hiring the head coach was an outline for how he would utilize Fields to his full potential and  who he was bringing in as his coordinators. So, Poles must be impressed. 

 

I do agree with an earlier post, these hires are all crapshoots. It's almost impossible to really know how a guy will coach and lead a team based on an interview. Some people really suck at interviews, and are awesome employees. Football isn't rocket science. How to get through to a football player and what buttons to push is a lot different than getting through to George McCaskey. Wanne also stated a lot of times the candidates, who were prepped by their buddies, say what they think the interviewer wants to hear, like "we are going to run the ball", and when they get the job, they don't run the ball. Bill Lazor was fired twice for not running enough. It shouldn't shock people on 4th and 1 he continually called pass plays.

Edited by Dick Allen

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I was listening to Wannstedt a couple of weeks ago. He is a Harbaugh guy. But what was interesting, considering he was the hot assistant at one time, was he said the key to hiring the head coach was an outline for how he would utilize Fields to his full potential and  who he was bringing in as his coordinators. So, Poles must be impressed. 

He isn't the name I would have hired - but - with that said - I think we all pretend like there is some script and these are the guys that succeed.  When you really think around the league - I think the best coaches, with a limited exception - all of them are more of the set the tone, instill the vision, rules around discipline, put their stamp on game plans, etc, but very few are necessarily successful because they are the self proclaimed guru at their craft.  

McDermott - CEO type; Very good DC too - but very big picture in his head coach role

Tomlin - CEO Type; Obviously defense is his background but if you looked at him - he had a lot of very strong DC's underneath him (so it wasn't like he had a bunch of raw, DC in name only coaches)

Belicheck - CEO type - unique; No one can operate like Bill and get away from it (at least not early in their career); He can do so much more because of his rings (to his own credit); But he leans pretty heavy on his DC and OC - but where he spends his time is really the architecture - what vision he has for the teams and gameplanning; in particular - I think he dials in his involvement in gameplanning during post-season but regular season more hands off; Additionally - I think more of the visioning is applied during the off-season - setting tone for make-up and strategy of best use for players -but than letting day to day get ran by its people.

McVay - Genius type - but he has had good offensive minds and seems to be one of the few that toys the line.  

Andy Reid - Genius type, but as a CEO - but he also relies on his coordinators and is very comfortable in his own skin. 

Carroll - CEO type; He's a good defensive guy - and e will put his stamp on things, but is a less intense mini belicheck in how he handles things.  Or more like McDermott.  

Rivera - CEO type - same way (not sure Rivera belongs on this list).  

Arians - Genius - very unique / own style

 

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21 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

He isn't the name I would have hired - but - with that said - I think we all pretend like there is some script and these are the guys that succeed.  When you really think around the league - I think the best coaches, with a limited exception - all of them are more of the set the tone, instill the vision, rules around discipline, put their stamp on game plans, etc, but very few are necessarily successful because they are the self proclaimed guru at their craft.  

McDermott - CEO type; Very good DC too - but very big picture in his head coach role

Tomlin - CEO Type; Obviously defense is his background but if you looked at him - he had a lot of very strong DC's underneath him (so it wasn't like he had a bunch of raw, DC in name only coaches)

Belicheck - CEO type - unique; No one can operate like Bill and get away from it (at least not early in their career); He can do so much more because of his rings (to his own credit); But he leans pretty heavy on his DC and OC - but where he spends his time is really the architecture - what vision he has for the teams and gameplanning; in particular - I think he dials in his involvement in gameplanning during post-season but regular season more hands off; Additionally - I think more of the visioning is applied during the off-season - setting tone for make-up and strategy of best use for players -but than letting day to day get ran by its people.

McVay - Genius type - but he has had good offensive minds and seems to be one of the few that toys the line.  

Andy Reid - Genius type, but as a CEO - but he also relies on his coordinators and is very comfortable in his own skin. 

Carroll - CEO type; He's a good defensive guy - and e will put his stamp on things, but is a less intense mini belicheck in how he handles things.  Or more like McDermott.  

Rivera - CEO type - same way (not sure Rivera belongs on this list).  

Arians - Genius - very unique / own style

 

Pretty sure Belicheck is heavily involved in defensive game planning, and you did not include Shanahan who is definitley one of the best coaches in the league given his qb play.

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Just now, bmags said:

Pretty sure Belicheck is heavily involved in defensive game planning, and you did not include Shanahan who is definitley one of the best coaches in the league given his qb play.

I think Beli is very involved in game planning - but lets the day to day go on. That said - I get the impression his is more around - this is our team, our personell etc - so thisi s the strategy we should employ so that the 3 phases play together.  I do think during regular season - he may be more hands off on parts than others - but by weeks and the broader overall strategy/tone set - he has his fingers all over. But that is my hypothesis - kind of a - here is your guidelines as a DC/OC (and I thin khe is pretty specific) - but they can do what they want within those guidelines.  

Than he'll refine them over course of the year and if he sees things he doesn't like - he will zoom in on those and focus there.  But he is very unique too with the clout he has built up.  

Shanny is definitely close to McVay - but I think he has a lot of CEO to him as well, but he has a scheme that he believes in and will work and has a vision that is going to go through. Clearly pretty hands on with the offense. 

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Re: Eberflus - I didn't realize this (and maybe this isn't true and I misread this) - but I believe beyond just being the defensive coach, he was actually passing game coordinator in Dallas in '16 and '17.  So I would think both being very good at defensive scheming + his time serving as a coordinator (whatever that means) - at least positions him to have good viewpoints on what he wants for that offensive role.  

I assume it is either one of the coaches still coaching (Rams OC / Niners OC) who would view this as an upgrade, or a former HC who was a HC (Caldwell or something like that). But beyond OC - they got to get a full strong team that can maximize the playbook for Justin and do all the little things to put him in best position to excel.  

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4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Re: Eberflus - I didn't realize this (and maybe this isn't true and I misread this) - but I believe beyond just being the defensive coach, he was actually passing game coordinator in Dallas in '16 and '17.  So I would think both being very good at defensive scheming + his time serving as a coordinator (whatever that means) - at least positions him to have good viewpoints on what he wants for that offensive role.  

I assume it is either one of the coaches still coaching (Rams OC / Niners OC) who would view this as an upgrade, or a former HC who was a HC (Caldwell or something like that). But beyond OC - they got to get a full strong team that can maximize the playbook for Justin and do all the little things to put him in best position to excel.  

He was a defensive passing game coordinator in DAL not offensive.

He did recruit the second best QB in Missouri history though in Brad Smith. So 😍

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Edited by Jack Parkman

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55 minutes ago, bmags said:

He was a defensive passing game coordinator in DAL not offensive.

He did recruit the second best QB in Missouri history though in Brad Smith. So 😍

That makes more sense.  

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26 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

I'm not going to lie - if Kubiak was interested in being a HC - he would have been my #1 choice (presuming he is healthy/willing to do it). But if he was actually committed to being an OC and his body could handle the stress - nothing would excite me more.  Master of zone blocking schemes and presuming he's kept up with the game I have no doubt he can figure out a way to maximize offense around Fields.  But even as a consultant - not a bad thing...but I don't really I know that "consultants" help out much.  

Now if I am playing name that coach - Caldwell as the OC, with Kubiak as the run game coordinator would be very intriguing.  Kubiak builds the entire rushing unit and scheme - Caldwell handles QB development, the play calling, and the passing attack.  Pep Hamilton as the QB coach.  

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Reports that Poles has targeted Ian Cunningham, director of player personnel from the Eagles for a high ranking front office job in Chicago. I don't know much about Cunningham, other than despite some dysfunction between GM & HC - they have largely done a pretty good job on the talent front (IMO).  I will also note that Cunningham has been with Eagles prior 5 years and before that was a scout in the Ravens org. 

Without knowing whether Cunningham is good or bad - I like the fact that while Poles/Cunningham evidently are close - his hire wasn't purely someone from his own org and Cunningham has worked in two orgs that are known for finding some talent. I am curious whether this will be an add or is it a replacement. I am hoping to see a bit of an expansion of the front office (from what it was).  I am also curious to see what happens with Poles/Champ Kelly.  

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Tabor headed to Panthers for the same rule.  Kind of bummed cause I think special teams was pretty solid.  That said - can't blame Tabor for going there and maybe the new HC was going another direction anyway.  I would have thought if Tabor could stay in Chicago he would have preferred it - more safety with Eberflus vs. Rhule (who is clearly on the hot seat). 

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2 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

There will be a new DC as well.

 

Eberflus is underwhelming. Eh.

Yeah - I assume all new defensive staff. Offense will be interesting though.  Maybe Doug Pederson comes to run the offense. I keep throwing out names haha.  I'm sure even with 20 names thrown out as potential OC's I will be wrong and it will be a name I didn't include.  

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This is encouraging. Someone who prioritizes and has an eye for offensive line talent gets a high grade from me.

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2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Reports that Poles has targeted Ian Cunningham, director of player personnel from the Eagles for a high ranking front office job in Chicago. I don't know much about Cunningham, other than despite some dysfunction between GM & HC - they have largely done a pretty good job on the talent front (IMO).  I will also note that Cunningham has been with Eagles prior 5 years and before that was a scout in the Ravens org. 

Without knowing whether Cunningham is good or bad - I like the fact that while Poles/Cunningham evidently are close - his hire wasn't purely someone from his own org and Cunningham has worked in two orgs that are known for finding some talent. I am curious whether this will be an add or is it a replacement. I am hoping to see a bit of an expansion of the front office (from what it was).  I am also curious to see what happens with Poles/Champ Kelly.  

Cunningham was also an olineman. Thumbs up from me. 

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Also we are off to a good start targeting Rich Bassacia (raiders interim HC) as ST coordinator. Hopefully he is released from his contract soon and that can be finalized.

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22 minutes ago, bmags said:

Cunningham was also an olineman. Thumbs up from me. 

Yeah - not that position necessarily correlates to vision - but both of these guys understand the importance of the trenches (and I think there organizations also have shown that knack - Eagles and Chiefs have invested heavily in the line; just look at how he Chiefs retooled between last year and this year after Mahome's got hit too much in the Super Bowl).  

The quote from Pioli is pretty exciting. Honestly - I am pretty stoked about Poles. 

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12 hours ago, bmags said:

 

I hope not, I want someone in there with experience. 

11 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I can't complain - want to see what he does from a staffing perspective; He is a seasoned coach and seems to be a good teacher and I suspect will be very comfortable in his own skin. His defenses have  been good and he seems to preach discipline, etc.  I do think for Justin Fields sake - it will be important to find him a nucleus of coaches that can excite him in his development.  

Rod Marinelli spoke highly of Matt Eberflus with Parkins and Spiegel today in terms of being a teacher. In a coaching cycle with mostly first time head coaches being hired, I’m okay with him as coach given his experience. My opinion of the move depends on who his OC and his staff is though.

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Look, I know next to nothing about Kevin Patullo, but hiring an inexperienced OC is the very reason I didn’t want a defensive-minded HC.

Doug Pederson or Pep Hamilton would be who I’d like to see. 

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5 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Reports that Poles has targeted Ian Cunningham, director of player personnel from the Eagles for a high ranking front office job in Chicago. I don't know much about Cunningham, other than despite some dysfunction between GM & HC - they have largely done a pretty good job on the talent front (IMO).  I will also note that Cunningham has been with Eagles prior 5 years and before that was a scout in the Ravens org. 

Without knowing whether Cunningham is good or bad - I like the fact that while Poles/Cunningham evidently are close - his hire wasn't purely someone from his own org and Cunningham has worked in two orgs that are known for finding some talent. I am curious whether this will be an add or is it a replacement. I am hoping to see a bit of an expansion of the front office (from what it was).  I am also curious to see what happens with Poles/Champ Kelly.  

Hard to argue with jettisoning Wentz in Philly.  Now it's so much about having the whole organization aligned behind the right guy at QB.   Especially in an era when arguably someone like Dak isn't good enough unless you surround them with almost the perfect pieces.  Look at the disharmony around Tua in Miami for example.   If you don't have the QB, you clearly need a Top 3-5 coach/scheme guy like Shanahan (and a Deebo or Tyreek Hill doesn't hurt either).

It's kind of like Moneyball now. Roughly half the teams (or more) have run/pass option guys at QB...so the niche or competitive advantage will move elsewhere organizationally.  The Liberty QB in this year's draft might be the only one that checks close to half those boxes.

Edited by caulfield12

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So the 36 year old GM with no previous GM experience hired the 51 year old finalist with no previous HC experience. A couple names that are being bounced around for OC have no previous OC experience.

When did the Bears become a starter franchise? I like seeing an opportunity to bring new, fresh ideas and perhaps reinvent how organizations function. But, it also seems like a risk. 

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