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Texsox

I’m bored, just waiting for the post season

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

It will never go back...but it would still be my preference.  Playoffs are for the owners to make money not to find the best team.  Every game was more important in the good old days.  The teams played all other league teams and the winner went to the WS.  Wild card teams winning the WS just doesn't sit well with me.

I grew up with 2 divisions per league, an LCS, and the WS. I wish it were that way again. The original way has merit as well. Those were the days before collective bargaining though, and a team like the Yankees could build a dominant team and win pennants year after year making me wonder how fans of the also rans managed to keep interest through decades of never having even a hope for the postseason. Despite that, it did work well though.

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9 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

I grew up with 2 divisions per league, an LCS, and the WS. I wish it were that way again. The original way has merit as well. Those were the days before collective bargaining though, and a team like the Yankees could build a dominant team and win pennants year after year making me wonder how fans of the also rans managed to keep interest through decades of never having even a hope for the postseason. Despite that, it did work well though.

They sold the hero worship for individual players and the wonders of fun at the old ballpark.  See Ernie Banks and Wrigley field for examples.

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11 hours ago, poppysox said:

It will never go back...but it would still be my preference.  Playoffs are for the owners to make money not to find the best team.  Every game was more important in the good old days.  The teams played all other league teams and the winner went to the WS.  Wild card teams winning the WS just doesn't sit well with me.

That is not true.  If we returned to the best AL vs best NL format, if a team runs away w their league all the games late in the year would be meaningless.  Now if we played even gamesw each team  in a division and took the top 3 with  2 vs 3 and winner plays 1 it would still create interest but still reward the best team in each division. 

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10 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

That is not true.  If we returned to the best AL vs best NL format, if a team runs away w their league all the games late in the year would be meaningless.  Now if we played even gamesw each team  in a division and took the top 3 with  2 vs 3 and winner plays 1 it would still create interest but still reward the best team in each division. 

If we just had the best record in each league meet in the World Series, there would only be six teams with games that matter, and I'm being really generous to the Sox to include them as the 6th team.

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I am bored of the lackadaisical play but by no means do I want the season to be over.  We’ve waited forever for a good team and I want to watch them play competitive baseball every single night.  Winters without baseball are boring AF. 

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On 9/11/2021 at 4:33 PM, Marqhead said:

The Sox make the playoffs once a decade, I’m not bored in the slightest. More please. 

This. How TF is this boring? I would agree the Sox have played some uninspired ball last 60 days or so, but I’m not bored. More baseball is better. Shortening the season would be catering to those that don’t like the game - don’t do it. 

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22 hours ago, Snopek said:

It feels a little more nuanced than that. Alternating wins and losses while the focus is on resting players isn’t exactly thrilling to watch. It’s possible to appreciate the big picture and be excited about the team and playoffs, but still be bored with the loooong wind down of the regular season.

Baseball is all about the big picture.  No one remembers if a team won on September 9th or August 24, but they damned well remember who won in October.

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14 hours ago, Texsox said:

SSHM would be in his glory. 

Full glory would equate to:

  • Two 14 team leagues
  • Round robin schedule (13 opponents, 6 Home and Away = 156 games).
  • World Series lone playoff (held the first week of October) and lone inter-league games.
  • Return all minor leagues to independent status.
  • Promotion/relegation of two last place teams throughout all levels.
11 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

I grew up with 2 divisions per league, an LCS, and the WS. I wish it were that way again. The original way has merit as well. Those were the days before collective bargaining though, and a team like the Yankees could build a dominant team and win pennants year after year making me wonder how fans of the also rans managed to keep interest through decades of never having even a hope for the postseason. Despite that, it did work well though.

Yes. It made sense to switch to a division format with the 1969 (and subsequent) expansions. Ownership greed for expansion fees was short sighted, consistent with most of their major decisions. They are now splitting a far greater revenue pie (internet/National TV contract) across more franchises, while also subsidizing a bunch of teams that refuse/cannot compete.

Baseball has historically rewarded the teams which successfully navigated the legendary grind. It stood out against all other sports, and rewarded the strongest / most legitimate championship in North American sports.     Now all games become meaningless, as any team with a pulse can be deemed “World Champion” playing 4 games over .500 in October.

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5 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

If we just had the best record in each league meet in the World Series, there would only be six teams with games that matter, and I'm being really generous to the Sox to include them as the 6th team.

Right . But you could also have a team run away with a division and the rest would have nothing to play for. That's why I say you need at least 3 teams in each division to qualify 

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I am very happy and enjoying but I do agree with @Texsox, september baseball is just a slog even when it is meaningful. more sports come back, school is back, etc. If regular season ended in august and the playoffs were september it would be way better but it will never happen.

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The problem is simply that baseball is so refined that it takes a ton of games to distill the elite, and that leaves a bunch of poor teams and their fans with a long series of games that mean nothing.

 

Maybe once a team is eliminated or a certain number of games back late in the season, they could be allowed to just make their 40 man a fully active roster, suspend the option rules, and allow trades with other losing teams. Anything to give the fans some interest in their team during that lame duck time.

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On 9/12/2021 at 8:10 AM, White Sox Park said:

I've been watching baseball for 50 odd years, and i can honestly say that i've never been bored with it . i love the game with a passion, and relish the time from the beginning of spring training until the final out of the World Series . i love the defensive part of the game most, and the addition of Robert really piqued my interest...

 I've patiently waited my whole adult life for the White Sox to acquire a five tool center fielder that is one of the best in the game . it's always been a passion of mine, great center fielders . i have autographs from some of the games greatest in that position, stemming back to the mid 60's when i met players through my uncle, who was in advertising, and my cousin, a former Chicago sportscaster, who took me to my first Cub game back in 1965 ( my diehard White Sox fan dad, who was recently deceased, would have been appalled.

I'm right there with you. Ken Berry was my idol , Chet Lemon was good. Outside of those 2 haven't seen many decent ones.

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7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm right there with you. Ken Berry was my idol , Chet Lemon was good. Outside of those 2 haven't seen many decent ones.

Lance Johnson was very good. If the ball stayed in the ballpark, he caught it. He could run and he could hit for average. He didn't have a good arm, but he knew that too, so what I do remember is to offset that, he was very good at getting to hits quickly, something he worked on. Therefore, baserunners didn't go from first to third on singles on him very often. Now, the sabergeeks might not like him because he didn't hit for power or draw walks. But then again, who the hell was going to walk Lance Johnson, a guy with no power but could run? Similar to a Juan Pierre. So not drawing walks wasn't a weakness of his, it's the way he was pitched. He also didn't strike out. So he wasn't up there flailing away at pitches out of the strike zone while not drawing walks similar to a Corey Patterson. 

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57 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Lance Johnson was very good. If the ball stayed in the ballpark, he caught it....Now, the sabergeeks might not like him because he didn't hit for power or draw walks.

Not sure where you get that idea, he has two incredible bWAR seasons (including a 7.2 season with the Mets in 1996).

Top Eight White Sox Centerfield Seasons since 1968 as measured by bWAR: 

  • 6.1 Lance Johnson (1993)
  • 5.9 Chet Lemon (1977)
  • 5.8 Chet Lemon (1979)
  • 5.7 Aaron Rowand (2004)
  • 5.2 Adam Eaton (2014)
  • 4.9 Chet Lemon (1978)
  • 4.8 Chris Singleton (1999)
  • 4.7 Ken Henderson (1974)

Top 6 Career fWAR Leaders - Chicago White Sox Center Fielders

# Name G PA HR R RBI SB BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA xwOBA wRC+ BsR Off Def WAR
 
12
 
Page size:
 37 items in 2 pages
1 Fielder Jones 1153 5077 10 693 375 206 10.8%   .057   .269 .357 .326 .337   116 2.2 97.7 38.4 32.3
2 Johnny Mostil 972 4096 23 618 376 176 10.1% 8.2% .126 .328 .301 .386 .427 .380   114 -4.3 70.9 20.9 22.9
3 Chet Lemon 785 3198 73 403 348 45 8.8% 11.8% .163 .309 .288 .363 .451 .365   127 -8.8 90.7 23.7 22.8
4 Jim Landis 1063 4183 83 532 398 127 11.5% 14.5% .135 .279 .250 .346 .385 .330   104 9.6 32.8 42.9 20.3
5 Happy Felsch 749 3129 38 385 446 88 6.6% 8.0% .134 .312 .293 .347 .427 .369   121 -1.8 75.1 1.6 19.7
6 Lance Johnson 945 3820 17 483 327 226 5.5% 6.8% .087 .303 .286 .325 .373 .312   91 16.1 -23.5 71.0 17.3
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20 hours ago, bmags said:

I am very happy and enjoying but I do agree with @Texsox, september baseball is just a slog even when it is meaningful. more sports come back, school is back, etc. If regular season ended in august and the playoffs were september it would be way better but it will never happen.

I totally agree. Season is just too long, and with football back as well, every casual fans picks MLB back up in the playoffs. 

Cut the season down to like 130 games. I'd even love 100 but that won't happen. 

Additionally, the lead the Sox have built up...I've found myself watching about 2 games over the last three weeks. I know what's going on, stay up to date on everything....but with the rotating IL spots this team is featuring lately and just the lack of urgency (which I understand), it just doesn't give me a lot of reason to watch. 

I'm incredibly excited about October and think this team has a great shot.....but these September games are tough to get up for. 

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44 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not sure where you get that idea, he has two incredible bWAR seasons (including a 7.2 season with the Mets in 1996).

Top Eight White Sox Centerfield Seasons since 1968 as measured by bWAR: 

  • 6.1 Lance Johnson (1993)
  • 5.9 Chet Lemon (1977)
  • 5.8 Chet Lemon (1979)
  • 5.7 Aaron Rowand (2004)
  • 5.2 Adam Eaton (2014)
  • 4.9 Chet Lemon (1978)
  • 4.8 Chris Singleton (1999)
  • 4.7 Ken Henderson (1974)

Top 6 Career fWAR Leaders - Chicago White Sox Center Fielders

# Name G PA HR R RBI SB BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA xwOBA wRC+ BsR Off Def WAR
 
12
 
Page size:
 37 items in 2 pages
1 Fielder Jones 1153 5077 10 693 375 206 10.8%   .057   .269 .357 .326 .337   116 2.2 97.7 38.4 32.3
2 Johnny Mostil 972 4096 23 618 376 176 10.1% 8.2% .126 .328 .301 .386 .427 .380   114 -4.3 70.9 20.9 22.9
3 Chet Lemon 785 3198 73 403 348 45 8.8% 11.8% .163 .309 .288 .363 .451 .365   127 -8.8 90.7 23.7 22.8
4 Jim Landis 1063 4183 83 532 398 127 11.5% 14.5% .135 .279 .250 .346 .385 .330   104 9.6 32.8 42.9 20.3
5 Happy Felsch 749 3129 38 385 446 88 6.6% 8.0% .134 .312 .293 .347 .427 .369   121 -1.8 75.1 1.6 19.7
6 Lance Johnson 945 3820 17 483 327 226 5.5% 6.8% .087 .303 .286 .325 .373 .312   91 16.1 -23.5 71.0 17.3

Just simply got that idea because of what I said. He didn't draw walks and didn't hit for power. Same reason why the sabergeeks out there who claim 40 years later, many of whom have probably never seen this guy play mind you, that Steve Garvey was overrated because he didn't walk enough. And Garvey too had some excellent WAR years.  But I digress here because I've always promised myself to only talk baseball here and not Sabergeekness. But hey, I'm glad you posted this to show his worth. 

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3 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Just simply got that idea because of what I said. He didn't draw walks and didn't hit for power. Same reason why the sabergeeks out there who claim 40 years later, many of whom have probably never seen this guy play mind you, that Steve Garvey was overrated because he didn't walk enough. And Garvey too had some excellent WAR years.  But I digress here because I've always promised myself to only talk baseball here and not Sabergeekness. But hey, I'm glad you posted this to show his worth. 

Everything has a place, and this game is great enough for both to be covered. Sabermetrics isn't everything, but it does a solid job quantifying attributes beyond counting stats, and is an upgrade defensively vs. looking at less errors vs. greater range.

Steve Stone can point out specific details and nuances that impact why a player is hot or cold, why a pitcher is losing command/regained command. 

TWTW leads to maximizing one's talent, and should ultimately lead to better numbers (old school and sabermetric) than a player who is playing injured or not giving a full effort.

Sabermetrics is the equivalent of Bill Parcell's "You are what your record is", gives you as full a picture as possible in terms of overall contributions., more so than cherry picking stats.

Someone stated "Yoan Moncada sucks because he has 11 HRs and 54 RBIs in September". Would it be better than he expanded his strike zone and generated maximum bat speed more often to hit several more HRs, losing significant BA/OBP in the process? Most would say no. Ichiro or Ty Cobb could have hit more home runs as well, but choose to maximize their contributions by staying consistent steady hitters.

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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Everything has a place, and this game is great enough for both to be covered. Sabermetrics isn't everything, but it does a solid job quantifying attributes beyond counting stats, and is an upgrade defensively vs. looking at less errors vs. greater range.

Steve Stone can point out specific details and nuances that impact why a player is hot or cold, why a pitcher is losing command/regained command. 

TWTW leads to maximizing one's talent, and should ultimately lead to better numbers (old school and sabermetric) than a player who is playing injured or not giving a full effort.

Sabermetrics is the equivalent of Bill Parcell's "You are what your record is", gives you as full a picture as possible in terms of overall contributions., more so than cherry picking stats.

Someone stated "Yoan Moncada sucks because he has 11 HRs and 54 RBIs in September". Would it be better than he expanded his strike zone and generated maximum bat speed more often to hit several more HRs, losing significant BA/OBP in the process? Most would say no. Ichiro or Ty Cobb could have hit more home runs as well, but choose to maximize their contributions by staying consistent steady hitters.

You're right about everything you said here.  Very well put.

I'm glad you mentioned Moncada in your statement here. Because I know he's been criticized for having a bad year or that he's a disappointment. But he's played excellent defense, he's third in the league in OBP and I saw where he has the highest line drive percentage of any hitter in the AL. Now by stating this, I realize I might be being hypocritical and being a sabergeek myself. But that's where your "everything has a place, and this game is great enough for both to be covered" quote is spot on!! 

My biggest problem is like I mentioned, someone who hasn't seen someone play and decides to look at a specific statistic and decides they really weren't as good as everyone thought they were at the time, like Garvey not walking enough. Bill Buckner might get rated and criticized for the same reason........That I do have a serious problem with. 

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

I totally agree. Season is just too long, and with football back as well, every casual fans picks MLB back up in the playoffs. 

Cut the season down to like 130 games. I'd even love 100 but that won't happen. 

Additionally, the lead the Sox have built up...I've found myself watching about 2 games over the last three weeks. I know what's going on, stay up to date on everything....but with the rotating IL spots this team is featuring lately and just the lack of urgency (which I understand), it just doesn't give me a lot of reason to watch. 

I'm incredibly excited about October and think this team has a great shot.....but these September games are tough to get up for. 

I agree as well. As far as the business of baseball goes, this is the thing. They are in it to make money, and that is paid by the fans. They will have a windfall if they have a champion so their decisions are driven by that goal. However, those decisions happen to include what we are seeing these days. I live a few hours away and the only games I can get to are on weekends. I will *NOT* spend my gas, parking, and ticket money on a Sunday game knowing the entertainment is going to be a Sunday lineup. With only Saturday as an option that means I will not make it to as many games, pure and simple. The Sox miss out on the revenue of my attendance, but on the other hand if they get a WS team it will definitely boost my interest. Its a tradeoff.

 

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