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GT 9/12: Red Sox @ White Sox

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Funny thing, is as the low guy lately on this board I also argued that Cesar wasn't a guaranteed upgrade over Leury ROS.

Leury and Cesar basically switched bodies. 

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Just now, hankchifan said:

It was a terrible trade giving up two young stars including a first rounder for a 32 yr old guy that we did not need.  We already had a Hendriks.  Hahn screwed up big time.

Wasn't the story that Hahn and Kenny sat down and both thought that Kimbrel was the one guy both most wanted?

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Funny thing, is as the low guy lately on this board I also argued that Cesar wasn't a guaranteed upgrade over Leury ROS.

I would say you've got to move Leury over to 2B when TA is back.

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8 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

I'll gladly eat crow haha

I'll take seconds and dessert.

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Kimbrels dumb stance is annoying if he's pitching well but it's insufferable to watch when he can't find the zone and not blow saves

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6 minutes ago, lostfan said:

Kimbrel gets the "Win" for today, I hate that stat

Yeah, it really should go to the most effective pitcher of the game.

To be fair, Liam also received wins after much worse performances, including a win after giving up four runs to the Yankees.

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Funny thing, is as the low guy lately on this board I also argued that Cesar wasn't a guaranteed upgrade over Leury ROS.

The Sox didn’t give up anything of value for Cesar.

2021 Heuer alone is a regret in a Kimbrel trade, let alone years of control for both. 

Hahn and Tony were really adamant about tossing a lot of money into the bullpen. If they win 1-2 WS, it’s written off as the cost of doing business. If they do not, there could be major regret.

Still have four weeks to right the ship, same with the injured pitchers, Tim, Engel, etc.

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13 minutes ago, soxtalker999 said:

Wasn't the story that Hahn and Kenny sat down and both thought that Kimbrel was the one guy both most wanted?

Bad judgement from both.

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16 minutes ago, soxtalker999 said:

Wasn't the story that Hahn and Kenny sat down and both thought that Kimbrel was the one guy both most wanted?

Snopes says this is: True

Quote

"I think I asked him (Williams), 'If we could acquire just one player, who's likely to move, who would you want it to be?'" Hahn recalled. "We both had the same answer, it being Craig Kimbrel."

Quote

Tony La Russa was relying on fewer and fewer arms in tight situations. Flamethrower Michael Kopech was his go-to guy to get to Hendriks, but the team felt like it needed more….The Sox had a tax to getting Kimbrel because he isn't necessarily a two-month rental since he has a team option for next year.

Quote

"It was Kenny, about an hour or hour and a half before the deal was done who said 'we're going to hug if we get this done,'" Hahn recalled. "After my final conversation with Jed, I wandered into his office with a big smile on my face and said something to the effect 'where's my hug?'"

 

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I think we will regret giving up Madrigal but not Heuer. Relievers are up and down. They can have one or two good years and than have one or two bad ones after.

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20 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

It was a terrible trade giving up two young stars including a first rounder for a 32 yr old guy that we did not need.  We already had a Hendriks.  Hahn screwed up big time.

He got caught up in the moment and made a meatball trade- something his predecessor did from time to time. You would think that he would have learned from the Tatis, Simeon, Montas and Bassitt deals. 
Just incredibly stupid. He loses my vote (if I had one) for exec of the year.

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3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Snopes says this is: True

 

Incompetent performance by these two guys that may comeback to haunt the Sox for years to come.

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9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Snopes says this is: True

 

The Sox “needed more”...

 wasn’t that Tepera?

 

edit: wrong post to reply to. I give up using my phone for this 🙄

Edited by SpringfieldFan

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3 minutes ago, chisoxt said:

He got caught up in the moment and made a meatball trade- something his predecessor did from time to time. You would think that he would have learned from the Tatis, Simeon, Montas and Bassitt deals. 
Just incredibly stupid. He loses my vote (if I had one) for exec of the year.

Are Williams and Hahn ever going to be made accountable for their bone head moves?  Were they also responsible for the LaRussa hire or that was JR alone?

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Just now, SpringfieldFan said:

The Sox “needed more”...

 wasn’t that Tepera?

They didn’t give up much for Tepera either.

Part of the deal was making the bullpen “Tony proof”. Crochet is also effective, but not sure what confidence Tony has in him. 

If they would have used Kimbrel to free up Kopech to return to a multi inning rule that would make more sense, and maybe they will after his performance yesterday.

The Sox still have enough solid one inning guys if Kimbrel doesn’t turn things around, and Kopech is saved for 1-2 plus high leverage middle innings.

Comfortable with Crochet in the 8th, he has handled it well, and Tepera / Bummer preceding.

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12 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I think we will regret giving up Madrigal but not Heuer. Relievers are up and down. They can have one or two good years and than have one or two bad ones after.

Agree.  Madrigal complemented our team well as a contact .300 hitter with minimal strikeouts.

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9 minutes ago, chisoxt said:

He got caught up in the moment and made a meatball trade- something his predecessor did from time to time. You would think that he would have learned from the Tatis, Simeon, Montas and Bassitt deals. 
Just incredibly stupid. He loses my vote (if I had one) for exec of the year.

They were 10 games up and still looking ahead to their key players returning from the IL and yet they had to go and mess with the formula just to keep up with everyone else at the deadline. Crimony.

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I still wonder what it would have taken to get Daniel Hudson....I thought that was the move to make.  Granted I have no idea how he has done with the Padres.  I'm sure he was much  less expensive prospect wise than Kimbrel.  Oh well, hindsight....

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2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

They didn’t give up much for Tepera either.

Part of the deal was making the bullpen “Tony proof”. Crochet is also effective, but not sure what confidence Tony has in him. 

If they would have used Kimbrel to free up Kopech to return to a multi inning rule that would make more sense, and maybe they will after his performance yesterday.

The Sox still have enough solid one inning guys if Kimbrel doesn’t turn things around, and Kopech is saved for 1-2 plus high leverage middle innings.

Comfortable with Crochet in the 8th, he has handled it well, and Tepera / Bummer preceding.

“Tony proof” with Kimbrel still includes Ruiz, Burr and Wright in high leverage situation.  He needs to manage this bullpen better.

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Just now, wegner said:

I still wonder what it would have taken to get Daniel Hudson....I thought that was the move to make.  Granted I have no idea how he has done with the Padres.  I'm sure he was much  less expensive prospect wise than Kimbrel.  Oh well, hindsight....

What we needed was a good defensive outfielder with pop, not another reliever.

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3 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

What we needed was a good defensive outfielder with pop, not another reliever.

Kris Bryant was staring them in the face and he would have been a game changing addition for this club. It also wouldn't have taken NEARLY the package the Sox traded away for Kimbrel. Just brutal all the way around.

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All that matters at this point is how Kimbrel or Krimble as Ozzie calls him, does in the playoffs. If he helps them win, the cost was high but a case will be made it was worth it. If he doesn’t, it was a bad trade. I think he has shown enough that no one is going to trade the Sox something useful and pay him $16 million, and I don’t think the Sox will pay a set up man that amount.

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2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Kris Bryant was staring them in the face and he would have been a game changing addition for this club. It also wouldn't have taken NEARLY the package the Sox traded away for Kimbrel. Just brutal all the way around.

Right on.  It would have been the end of the Goodwin era, and the beginning of Murderous Row. Also a position player contributing every game rather than a reliever coming in every two or three games.

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22 minutes ago, chisoxt said:

He got caught up in the moment and made a meatball trade- something his predecessor did from time to time. You would think that he would have learned from the Tatis, Simeon, Montas and Bassitt deals. 
Just incredibly stupid. He loses my vote (if I had one) for exec of the year.

Hahn's 'predecessor' was renowned for meatball trades and pickups. It's only anecdotal, but an Oakland A's insider said that they loved dealing with Williams in that the A's always got the better end of the deal.
<----- Not much of a Williams fan, at least as a GM. 

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