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Bob Sacamano

9/15 GT: Angels @ White Sox, 7:10

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1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

Keuchel vs Junk

Let's keep this winning streak going!

Wow I thought you were just kidding. I looked up who’s actually pitching for the Angels and his last name is Junk. Lol 😂 

Edited by maloney.adam
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Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year.  Making a regular start every 5th game, he'd have 4 starts left including today.

IMO, I'd give him 2 more at 5 innings max and then let Lambert take the last 2 and get Keuchel ready for the pen role he's going to have in October.  

Would be really dumb to let him throw like 165 innings.  

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1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

Keuchel vs Junk

Let's keep this winning streak going!

Junk Squared tonight at GRF

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17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year.  Making a regular start every 5th game, he'd have 4 starts left including today.

IMO, I'd give him 2 more at 5 innings max and then let Lambert take the last 2 and get Keuchel ready for the pen role he's going to have in October.  

Would be really dumb to let him throw like 165 innings.  

Honestly, it is really up to him, but the injuries might have something to do with it.

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35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Honestly, it is really up to him, but the injuries might have something to do with it.

The person you quoted is incorrect regarding Dallas' contract.

Quote

Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year

Dallas needs 320 combined innings the next two seasons, with a minimum of 160 IP in 2022, and also needs to "pass a physical" after the 2022 season.

If he pitched 159 innings this season, "keeping him under 160 this year", he vests by pitching 161 innings next season.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The person you quoted is incorrect regarding Dallas' contract.

Dallas needs 320 combined innings the next two seasons, with a minimum of 160 IP in 2022, and also needs to "pass a physical" after the 2022 season.

If he pitched 159 innings this season, "keeping him under 160 this year", he vests by pitching 161 innings next season.

Yep, NEXT season is the important one, with that garbage contract.

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year.  Making a regular start every 5th game, he'd have 4 starts left including today.

IMO, I'd give him 2 more at 5 innings max and then let Lambert take the last 2 and get Keuchel ready for the pen role he's going to have in October.  

Would be really dumb to let him throw like 165 innings.  

Bad faith is not good.

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25 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

Yep, NEXT season is the important one, with that garbage contract.

There's no fucking way they let it vest and given his performance he has zero argument that it was cynical manipulation.  There's already a decent argument that Lopez should enter next year as the 5th starter depending on how the offseason shakes out and Dallas can be the emergency starter and mop up guy.

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There's no fucking way they let it vest and given his performance he has zero argument that it was cynical manipulation.  There's already a decent argument that Lopez should enter next year as the 5th starter depending on how the offseason shakes out and Dallas can be the emergency starter and mop up guy.

I agree. If he sucks next year then they will release him well before he has a chance of reaching the innings he needs.

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2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year.  Making a regular start every 5th game, he'd have 4 starts left including today.

IMO, I'd give him 2 more at 5 innings max and then let Lambert take the last 2 and get Keuchel ready for the pen role he's going to have in October.  

Would be really dumb to let him throw like 165 innings.  

Aren't the Sox now doing a 6 man rotation ?

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25 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

I agree. If he sucks next year then they will release him well before he has a chance of reaching the innings he needs.

Yep he fucked himself with his poor play this year. He has no argument and no room to even complain about it. He know he has been ass. 

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2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Dallas is at 145.1 innings.  If Sox keep him under 160 IP, his vesting option for 2023 is torn up.  Obviously, the hope is Dallas figures it out next season and is back to being a solid #4 type.  WOuld be ideal to just keep him under 160 this year.  Making a regular start every 5th game, he'd have 4 starts left including today.

IMO, I'd give him 2 more at 5 innings max and then let Lambert take the last 2 and get Keuchel ready for the pen role he's going to have in October.  

Would be really dumb to let him throw like 165 innings.  

Does the CBA address situations like this where the team wants to manipulate innings to negate an option?

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18 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

I agree. If he sucks next year then they will release him well before he has a chance of reaching the innings he needs.

If he is able to bounce back next Spring, I still see him as being the Sox 5th starter unless they bring back Rodon and or sign a reliable starter this offseason.

Kopech can't start the entire 2022 season off of his low 2021 workload. Lopez will likely have limits as well (29 IP last year, 100ish this season combined majors/minors) and is a question mark in terms of whether he can sustain his recent success. You also can't assume the other three starters will remain healthy all season.

Yes, they can bring up Lambert and others, but deciding to eat $18M in 2022 is less palatable than at least attempting to salvage Dallas entering 2022. If he can pitch well the first few months and remains healthy, they likely keep him in the back of the rotation and hope he can remain effective for his final season (or perhaps trade him at the deadline or 2022-23 offseason). If he opens 2022 as bad as he has been the past few months, you can still credibly move him to the bullpen and release / trade him around the trade deadline with 80ish IP to ensure he can't reach the other 80 elsewhere. This route also ensures you have adequate depth to navigate 2022, and avoids any credible accusations of dealing in  "bad faith" with players on the current roster as well as future free agents.

He also (intentionally - planned by the team and him) started out of the gate slow this season, with his delayed start to Spring Training, in an attempt to navigate the full season. He will start Spring Training as aggressively as possible next season, knowing he has a solid base entering 2022 and that he is playing for his next deal (either the vesting option or 2023 FA).

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2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The person you quoted is incorrect regarding Dallas' contract.

Dallas needs 320 combined innings the next two seasons, with a minimum of 160 IP in 2022, and also needs to "pass a physical" after the 2022 season.

If he pitched 159 innings this season, "keeping him under 160 this year", he vests by pitching 161 innings next season.

This guy has me blocked for his god awful Grandal takes (that Yaz guy sure does suck, eh!?).  I have read on multiple occasions Keuchel needed to pitch 160 IP in both 21 and 22 including on Sox official release on the signing, but perhaps that wasn't the technical language in the contract.  Cots is a nice resource, but certainly isn't 100% accurate.  But if that language is correct and its 320 IP in 21-22 and 160+ in 22, I guess keeping him under 160 innings this year doesn't matter all that much.  In any event, Sox need to do whatever they can to avoid that option from vesting.  Even if Keuchel is back to his pre-2021 self next season, paying him $20M in 2023 is something they should avoid doing. 

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Bad faith is not good.

Is it really bad faith to take a rotation spot from a guy with an ERA of 7.50 his last 50 innings?  Of course its not.  

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51 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Aren't the Sox now doing a 6 man rotation ?

Not sure.  Wouldn't be against that.  Wasn't sure if Lopez would keep starting with the Lynn and Gio back.  

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56 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Aren't the Sox now doing a 6 man rotation ?

Yeah they are apparently. I was looking forward to seeing Ohtani Rodon tomorrow afternoon live at the game but it says Lopez, even though Rodon would be on track if it was a 5-man rotation.

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Just now, soxfan49 said:

Janson Junk. What a dumb name

Imagine if he had the starter from yesterday’s first name: Packy Junk.

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5 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Yeah they are apparently. I was looking forward to seeing Ohtani Rodon tomorrow afternoon live at the game but it says Lopez, even though Rodon would be on track if it was a 5-man rotation.

Ohtani is pitching on Friday.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Ohtani is pitching on Friday.

Damn really? Last I saw he was going Thursday but I also thought they had a 6-man rotation as well (which seems to be correct).

Edited by manbearpuig

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