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Soxsi75

How about we get off the ledge.

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For everyone on here who thinks we need to be on a role in September to win in the postseason and not being so means a quick exit from the playoffs, I'd like to remind everyone about a playoff team from our past.  The 1983 White Sox. They went 22-6 in September, 44-15 in August and September combined, averaged nearly 6 runs a game in September, AND won 19 of their last 20 home games. So what happened.........we all know we lost to Baltimore in the playoffs, but to go even deeper to prove this point.....after averaging those 6 runs a game in September we proceeded to score a TOTAL of 3 runs in the 4 game playoff series, and after winning those 19 of 20 at Comiskey, they went out and gave away the home field advantage by losing their two home games in that series. Shall I go further? In those 20 home games, they scored 134 runs, or 6.7 per game......and then scored a total of one run in their two home playoff games.

Translation?  There is NO correlation to how you do late in the regular season to how you perform in the post season. None. There is no such thing as "setting a tone" for the playoffs with meaningless September games. Yes, it is distressing how they're playing right now. And yes, if they play like this in the post season they will lose to Houston.  But remember, we've been treating the last two months like one big giant spring training. NEVER playing all our regulars on the same day, or goofy pitching decisions like pitching Fry in a tie game today, or using Mike Wright in the 10th inning of the Boston game a couple of weeks ago. So their record since the all star break is misleading. 

My biggest concern is can they turn it on when they have to after not having ANYTHING to play for for 2 months?  I've always believed that what helped them win in 05 was the scare Cleveland gave us in September. Because playoff pressure is real, but we already experienced it when it became a concern that we were going to gag away a 15 game lead. But when we held them off, we had our big scare, so October we could relax and play like the team that built up that 15 game lead. Another concern is Rodon, but even if he can go 4 or 5 innings and then turn it over to the bullpen, that would be fine. Everybody does that in the postseason now anyway. Also agree with someone else on here who didn't understand why we didn't stretch out Kopech more because we should have seen all this coming with Rodon. Because if we do have to start Keuchel, then we are in trouble. Not sure how he got so awful so fast.  I posted this also in response to another thread so I apologize for the redundancy. However, I felt this is worth stating in it's own thread.

Edited by Soxsi75
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Holy Formatting Batman!!!!!

I agree with you but didn't your 5th grade teacher show you how to form new paragraphs?

 

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2 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Holy Formatting Batman!!!!!

I agree with you but didn't your 5th grade teacher show you how to form new paragraphs?

 

Haha! You're right, so I broke it down a bit more. 

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This is so strange… I guess when someone has been added to the Soxtalk Hall of Fame list, you can’t see what their threads say.

Amazing discovery!!!

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The Orioles won 98 games that year and had won a WS a few years prior. We were hot that year and stretch, they were hot for a long time. 

Edited by SonofaRoache

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33 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The Orioles won 98 games that year and had won a WS a few years prior. We were jot that year and stretch, they were hot for a long time. 

Not taking anything away from that Baltimore team. My whole point is what happens in September is just that. It's only what happens in September. Has no correlation on how you do in the playoffs in October. 

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3 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Not taking anything away from that Baltimore team. My whole point is what happens in September is just that. It's only what happens in September. Has no correlation on how you do in the playoffs in October. 

I understand. But there are levels to it. We were hot that September, but the Orioles were hot for a few years, even with a down year. 

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2 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

For everyone on here who thinks we need to be on a role in September to win in the postseason and not being so means a quick exit from the playoffs, I'd like to remind everyone about a playoff team from our past.  The 1983 White Sox. They went 22-6 in September, 44-15 in August and September combined, averaged nearly 6 runs a game in September, AND won 19 of their last 20 home games. So what happened.........we all know we lost to Baltimore in the playoffs, but to go even deeper to prove this point.....after averaging those 6 runs a game in September we proceeded to score a TOTAL of 3 runs in the 4 game playoff series, and after winning those 19 of 20 at Comiskey, they went out and gave away the home field advantage by losing their two home games in that series. Shall I go further? In those 20 home games, they scored 134 runs, or 6.7 per game......and then scored a total of one run in their two home playoff games.

Translation?  There is NO correlation to how you do late in the regular season to how you perform in the post season. None. There is no such thing as "setting a tone" for the playoffs with meaningless September games. Yes, it is distressing how they're playing right now. And yes, if they play like this in the post season they will lose to Houston.  But remember, we've been treating the last two months like one big giant spring training. NEVER playing all our regulars on the same day, or goofy pitching decisions like pitching Fry in a tie game today, or using Mike Wright in the 10th inning of the Boston game a couple of weeks ago. So their record since the all star break is misleading. 

My biggest concern is can they turn it on when they have to after not having ANYTHING to play for for 2 months?  I've always believed that what helped them win in 05 was the scare Cleveland gave us in September. Because playoff pressure is real, but we already experienced it when it became a concern that we were going to gag away a 15 game lead. But when we held them off, we had our big scare, so October we could relax and play like the team that built up that 15 game lead. Another concern is Rodon, but even if he can go 4 or 5 innings and then turn it over to the bullpen, that would be fine. Everybody does that in the postseason now anyway. Also agree with someone else on here who didn't understand why we didn't stretch out Kopech more because we should have seen all this coming with Rodon. Because if we do have to start Keuchel, then we are in trouble. Not sure how he got so awful so fast.  I posted this also in response to another thread so I apologize for the redundancy. However, I felt this is worth stating in it's own thread.

Excellent post!

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The 8th inning is the only thing of concern.  Everywhere else we should be better than our opponents.  

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using Mike Wright in the 10th inning of the Boston game

I think that was the game that Hendriks or Kimbrel gave up the tie run before the 10th. Wright got the blame for giving up a single in the 10th with the ghost runner scoring. he did not pitch badly at all. But neither Wright nor LaRussa are the problem with this team.

The Sox have had more than their share of demoralizing losses, and too many of those are games where the bullpen imploded late. Remember we had a lead going into the final inning of the FOD game. 

Kimbrel can no longer be trusted in tight games.  When guys get on first base they get ridiculous jumps off him and easily steal second...or he throws a wild pitch or hits a batter.  Something is wrong with Kimbrel...maybe he is just tired and worn down physically. If so, there is probably not enough time left in the season for rest and recovery.  Nice trade Rick...Mr. Executive of the year.

 

 

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The frustrating part is as we’re getting more pieces back from injuries, we’re playing worse. This team played better with a rag tag group of Nick Williams, Yermin, Lamb, etc. getting a lot of play time. Obviously the starting pitching isn’t as lights out the second half due to IL stints, but man this team is very hard to watch fundamentally and talent wise. 

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I just see a team going through the motions. That concerns me.....

This is all set up by our manager who continues to throw games with his lineups, especially the last game of every series....not to mention pitching guys in close games that have no business.

I don't know........when all said and done maybe he will be the genius with getting his guys rest but I just don't see any urgency in this team.

I truly thought they would begin to play better as they get closer to clinching the division but thats not happening as of now. That concerns me.

But, what the hell do I know.....

I do know that my frustration level with this team and TLR will not allow me to watch this team with full enjoyment. I find myself mad and frustrated when I watch them play. I have never been that way with a winning team before.

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Year / Win Total / September Win % / Result

1983 / 99 / .786 / Lost ALCS

1993 / 94 / .607 / Lost ALCS

2000 / 95 / .571 / Lost ALDS

2005 / 99 / .586 / Won WS

2008 / 89 / .444 / Lost ALDS

 

The clearest comparison to this season is the 2008 team, with a sub-.500 September and < 90 wins, but we've also seen teams win 99 games and have hot Septembers go nowhere in the playoffs.

I will say one big difference between 2008 and 2021 is not having to play a tiebreaker game and burn a top starter right before the playoffs.

Despite Keuchel's struggles and Rodon's health status, I'm more concerned about hitting than pitching, due to the bullpen depth. Over the last 30 days, TA has been so-so, Cesar, Eloy and Vaughn have been awful. At least two of those guys have to turn it around.

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for the converse...the 1984 tigers started like 35-4 and played .500 the rest of the way. dominated the Padres in the world series. Oh. and the 2006 Cardinals were barely 500 for the year, won the division, played 1 good month of baseball (October) and won it all. 1969 mets barely over 500 as well.

Edited by kleedawg
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I think our health during September is more important than our overall play.  Losing any key players to an injury late in the season or to covid restrictions is my biggest concern not winning or losing  against Detroit .  

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15 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

for the converse...the 1984 tigers started like 35-4 and played .500 the rest of the way. dominated the Padres in the world series. Oh. and the 2006 Cardinals were barely 500 for the year, won the division, played 1 good month of baseball (October) and won it all. 1969 mets barely over 500 as well.

Yes, but that Cardinals team that famously flipped the switch was an experienced, playoff tested team. They had lost the 2004 World Series and in 2005 they won 100 games (1 more than the eventual champs) and pushed the Astros in the NLCS, famously murdering Brad Lidge in the process.

A veteran team where people are all getting heathy being able to flip the switch - I could understand that. A fairly young team with 3 playoff games in their entire careers for many of them, where they are struggling despite guys having already returned from the IL weeks ago, where they appear unmotivated, where their manager keeps giving games away for baffling reasons and never seemed to connect with his players, and where their opponent (with home field advantage) is actually the veteran team with tons of championship experience? Well, I will believe that team can flip a switch on when I see it.

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I posted this in the game thread yesterday. 

The White Sox are last in baseball in runs scored from the 7th inning on.  That to me will be the downfall of this team. They do not add on runs later and thus the opponent seems to be allowed to hang in there.

At some point in the late spring the Sox lead baseball in run differential when that changed so did the appearance of this team.

I do not know what is going to happen but those are the things that concern me currently.

 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, but that Cardinals team that famously flipped the switch was an experienced, playoff tested team. They had lost the 2004 World Series and in 2005 they won 100 games (1 more than the eventual champs) and pushed the Astros in the NLCS, famously murdering Brad Lidge in the process.

A veteran team where people are all getting heathy being able to flip the switch - I could understand that. A fairly young team with 3 playoff games in their entire careers for many of them, where they are struggling despite guys having already returned from the IL weeks ago, where they appear unmotivated, where their manager keeps giving games away for baffling reasons and never seemed to connect with his players, and where their opponent (with home field advantage) is actually the veteran team with tons of championship experience? Well, I will believe that team can flip a switch on when I see it.

This is what people aren't getting. The 83 Orioles won a title a few years prior and beat a hot Sox team that year. You can coast if you have the experience and have been there before. The Astros can coast because they've been to multiple WS' recently. We have no real playoff experience for the most part other than last year's fake round. We need every advantage we can get. 

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Being concerned about the team is not being on the ledge. The best pitcher on the team may not be able to pitch, and the team has other problems. That alone doesn't mean they can't have a good post-season; it is just something to be concerned about. And how a team plays in September may be an indication of how it may do in the post season. The regular season does mean something. 

Now that doesn't mean anyone can predict anything. Baseball is the hardest sport to predict. But the Sox play better at home than on the road, and it looks like they won't have any HFA unless they play a wild card team in the ALCS.

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2 hours ago, 2Deep said:

I just see a team going through the motions. That concerns me.....

This is all set up by our manager who continues to throw games with his lineups, especially the last game of every series....not to mention pitching guys in close games that have no business.

I don't know........when all said and done maybe he will be the genius with getting his guys rest but I just don't see any urgency in this team.

I truly thought they would begin to play better as they get closer to clinching the division but thats not happening as of now. That concerns me.

But, what the hell do I know.....

I do know that my frustration level with this team and TLR will not allow me to watch this team with full enjoyment. I find myself mad and frustrated when I watch them play. I have never been that way with a winning team before.

You are absolutely correct!! That's why I said I'm worried on if they can just turn it on after having nothing to play for for so long. 

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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

This is what people aren't getting. The 83 Orioles won a title a few years prior and beat a hot Sox team that year. You can coast if you have the experience and have been there before. The Astros can coast because they've been to multiple WS' recently. We have no real playoff experience for the most part other than last year's fake round. We need every advantage we can get. 

the 69 mets weren't experienced. You can find exceptions for any of these narratives. The playoffs are a different animal. No one knows how the sox will play. Humans are weird. You can't fake urgency. The sox are coasting. They can tell themselves to knuckle down but it doesn't work that way. Think to when we have played great in the 2nd half... Won a great series against Astros after being embarrassed against them earlier, crosstown series, Boston series. Automatic adrenaline rush for those games. Royals, and tigers...not so much. 

I expect we will play well in postseason. Will it be enough? The differences between winning & losing in the playoffs is razor thin. 

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7 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

the 69 mets weren't experienced. You can find exceptions for any of these narratives. The playoffs are a different animal. No one knows how the sox will play. Humans are weird. You can't fake urgency. The sox are coasting. They can tell themselves to knuckle down but it doesn't work that way. Think to when we have played great in the 2nd half... Won a great series against Astros after being embarrassed against them earlier, crosstown series, Boston series. Automatic adrenaline rush for those games. Royals, and tigers...not so much. 

I expect we will play well in postseason. Will it be enough? The differences between winning & losing in the playoffs is razor thin. 

47-23 in the second half, 24-8 in September and October for those Mets. How is it that every time someone gives an example of an inexperienced team winning a couple series they finished with a strong September? This hasn’t been wrong once at this page yet. 

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