MLB 2021-2 off season thread

[ron883 4,665]

Old man river is a reference to the Mississippi River, which doesn't have to do with baseball. Enjoy your bans, folks. 

[caulfield12 4,168]

20 hours ago, ron883 said:

Old man river is a reference to the Mississippi River, which doesn't have to do with baseball. Enjoy your bans, folks. 

If a tree falls during a lockout, will anyone hear it?

Btw Ron, you would have been a lot of fun as a debate judge.  Not!

Edited December 22, 2021 by caulfield12

[zisk 320]

Merry Christmas to all.

[southsideirish71 1,193]

 

Okay, that pretty much one-ups any stadium here.  Good lord.  

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by southsideirish71

[Tony 5,311]

2 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

 

Okay, that pretty much one-ups any stadium here.  Good lord.  

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn 1,598]

Spectacular. 

[Tnetennba 3,635]

 

[Chicago White Sox 8,964]

14 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

 

He makes a ton of sense for us.  Just no idea what he’d cost and he’s not someone I’m willing to overpay for.

[poppysox 2,161]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He makes a ton of sense for us.  Just no idea what he’d cost and he’s not someone I’m willing to overpay for.

Sounds like he has some attitude problems but the same could be said about AJ.

[Flash 382]

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He makes a ton of sense for us.  Just no idea what he’d cost and he’s not someone I’m willing to overpay for.

Jimenez, Kimbrel and Collins for McNeil and McCann?

[hi8is 2,864]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

Jimenez, Kimbrel and Collins for McNeil and McCann?

Can I trade your Tesla Model S for my VW Rabbit, please?

[Chicago White Sox 8,964]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

Jimenez, Kimbrel and Collins for McNeil and McCann?

100% us.  McCann is currently negative value player at his contract and Jimenez is worth significantly more than McNeil.

[Flash 382]

12 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

100% us.  McCann is currently negative value player at his contract and Jimenez is worth significantly more than McNeil.

I see in BTV where McCann has negative value. I like him for the Sox anyway. They also value McNeil more highly than Jimenez even though Jimenez is quite a bit younger.

I just don't get the Jimenez love. His power potential gave him strong value despite his clown act on defense when he was under arbitration wage scale. Let's see if he can play a few games and produce better than 1.5 WAR in 2022 now that he is being paid. My hope is that it isn't in left field.    

[Flash 382]

12 hours ago, hi8is said:

Can I trade your Tesla Model S for my VW Rabbit, please?

Sure but fair warning...my Tesla in in the shop most of the time and barely on the road. On the rare occasions its drivable, it garners a lot of attention because its blinged out in lots of gold trim.

[Bunt Ritual 58]

Swap Eloy with Sheets and make the Mets kick in half of the 30 mil owned McCann, and I'd do it.

[Chicago White Sox 8,964]

9 hours ago, Flash said:

I see in BTV where McCann has negative value. I like him for the Sox anyway. They also value McNeil more highly than Jimenez even though Jimenez is quite a bit younger.

I just don't get the Jimenez love. His power potential gave him strong value despite his clown act on defense when he was under arbitration wage scale. Let's see if he can play a few games and produce better than 1.5 WAR in 2022 now that he is being paid. My hope is that it isn't in left field.    

You don’t get the Jimenez love?  A consensus top 5 prospect who in his second year put up a 139 wRC+ and 1.6 fWAR in 55 games (a 4.7 win pace).  He’s under control for the next five seasons at an AAV of $12.8M.  He’s incredibly valuable if you don’t overreact to an injury impacted 2021.  Trading Eloy for McNeil would be a fireable offense IMO.

Also, BTV’s valuations are meaningless.  It’s a fun little tool, but we should not be using them as a legit benchmark for assessing player value.

[Flash 382]

BTVs valuations are just an east, 2-click source for comparison purposes but you can't ignore them for some players and use them for others. As for Jimenez, he is no longer a prospect and his value has declined each of the last 2 plus years. His best year was 2019 when he posted a 1.8 fWAR...followed by '20/1.6 and '21/0.2. I get that he has power when he gets to it (55 career HRs in >1000 ABs) but, for me (just one man's opinion), he is DH only if/when he can stay on the field. If $12.8M AAV is chump change these days, I'd rather pay McCann and McNeil (Grandal can DH and catch once in awhile) and then sign Comforto or trade for Gallo. I'd take that group any day than rely on Jimenez reaching his potential and playing an adaquate LF...both of which require he doesn't injure himself.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Flash
left out word

[bmags 8,704]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

BTVs valuations are just an east, 2-click source for comparison purposes but you can't ignore them for some players and use them for others. As for Jimenez, he is no longer a prospect and his value has declined each of the last 2 plus years. His best year was 2019 when he posted a 1.8 fWAR...followed by '20/1.6 and '21/0.2. I get that he has power when he gets to it (55 career HRs in >1000 ABs) but, for me (just one man's opinion), he is DH only if/when he can stay on the field. If $12.8M AAV is chump change these days, I'd rather pay McCann and McNeil (Grandal can DH and catch once in awhile) and then sign Comforto or trade for Gallo. I'd take that group any day than rely on Jimenez reaching his potential and playing an adaquate LF...both of which require he doesn't injure himself.

Why are we treating 2020 this way?

[Tnetennba 3,635]

McCann's career years here got him paid.  And frankly, good for him.  As sad as I was to see him go, reacquiring him at this juncture makes zero sense.  On top of giving away Eloy's massive untapped potential, injury concerns aside, in the same deal is just silly.

[Chicago White Sox 8,964]

9 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

McCann's career years here got him paid.  And frankly, good for him.  As sad as I was to see him go, reacquiring him at this juncture makes zero sense.  On top of giving away Eloy's massive untapped potential, injury concerns aside, in the same deal is just silly.

McCann for Keuchel would make sense for us.  But we can’t afford to pay McCann $10M/year to be our backup catcher.

[ChiSox59 5,088]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:58 AM, Flash said:

Jimenez, Kimbrel and Collins for McNeil and McCann?

Huh? 

[maxjusttyped 2,686]

In James Fegan's "White Sox anxiety survey results", he dropped this nugget I found interesting

" The White Sox nearly added their starting second baseman before the lockout, so there are some outward signs of their agreement about the state of affairs. "

https://theathletic.com/3036138/2021/12/27/white-sox-anxiety-index-survey-results-second-base-tops-list-of-biggest-offseason-concerns/

[ChiSox59 5,088]

57 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

In James Fegan's "White Sox anxiety survey results", he dropped this nugget I found interesting

" The White Sox nearly added their starting second baseman before the lockout, so there are some outward signs of their agreement about the state of affairs. "

https://theathletic.com/3036138/2021/12/27/white-sox-anxiety-index-survey-results-second-base-tops-list-of-biggest-offseason-concerns/

Interesting.  Wonder who that is. 

[FoxForce2 198]

16 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

McCann for Keuchel would make sense for us.  But we can’t afford to pay McCann $10M/year to be our backup catcher.

I'm not sure that I'm reading the Sportrac numbers correctly. They have the Sox on the hook to pay Keuchel guaranteed $55 mil over the course of  2020-2023 with the innings-based vesting option kicking in for 2024. McCann has $30 of his $40 mil guaranteed spread over the next 3 years. In simple terms of gross pay over the course of a contract, the Sox would be trading approx $27 mil/2 years for $30 mil/3 years. I'm no accountant and don't have the details of dollar distribution over time of these contracts but McCann's salary-rate would be mitigated by the shedding of Keuchel's payout. 
It's still a high number for a backup, but begs the question of whether McCann would be a full time backup at all. I'm fully convinced that Yaz isn't likely to crouch much more than 90-100 games in 2022 and that's probably a high number. IMO the Sox don't so much need a backup as they do an alternate catcher. Which, of course, complicates the DH situation even further LOL. While McCann's remaining payout is high-ish, several of the available quality catchers have already been scarfed off the market. I guess the Phils have a well regarded young catcher in their system who could come along with Segura, but even at that, I don't know how much Hahn is prioritizing the idea of a second (alternate) catcher.

Edited December 27, 2021 by FoxForce2

[Bob Sacamano 2,944]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Interesting.  Wonder who that is. 

Gotta think it’s Semien since someone (forget who) reported interest? Unless another less option signed that isn’t jumping to mind.

Escobar maybe.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Bob Sacamano