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MLB 2021-2 off season thread

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5 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

That most likely doesn’t mean anything, although it is somewhat interesting because Garfien and the other White Sox Talk people typically try to carry water for the organization and temper the expectations of the fanbase. So for him to straight up say that is noteworthy to at least some degree.

Exactly, I’m not suggesting he has access to our offseason plans, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he has some general sense if the budget is going to be high, medium, or low.  Let’s be honest, his crew and Merkin are both extensions of the PR arm and despite Jack’s theory leading on the customer is not a good business strategy.  If he’s optimistic we’ll spend a lot this offseason, perhaps we should all be.

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11 minutes ago, Lillian said:

If they signed both Semien and Conforto, Vaughn would become expendable and better utilized as trade bait for pitching depth. The lineup would be dangerous, one through 9. In fact, one would be challenged to construct a lineup, given the fact that somebody has to bat in the bottom third of the order:

Versus RHP:

SS Anderson

3B Moncada

CF Robert

1B Abreu

2B Semien

RF Conforto

LF Eloy

C  Grandal

DH Sheets

That lineup has 3 RH hitters batting consecutively, in the middle of the order. However, how else could it be constructed. It wouldn't make sense for Robert, Abreu or Semien to bat any lower, especially with how well Semien hits RHP. That is why it just seems like overkill. Perhaps, Conforto and Escobar make more sense, with the money saved, spent on pitching. Escobar would cost a fraction of what Semien will get. 

Yeah, heart of hearts I think Semien/Conforto would be foolish because it really does create problems beyond this year.

Semien is an MVP candidate, so you are adding him because he’s incredible no matter the position, not because he’s the cost of replacing Madrigal.

But if we add him I think you really should either trade for RF or be prepared to go year by year

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6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah, heart of hearts I think Semien/Conforto would be foolish because it really does create problems beyond this year.

Semien is an MVP candidate, so you are adding him because he’s incredible no matter the position, not because he’s the cost of replacing Madrigal.

But if we add him I think you really should either trade for RF or be prepared to go year by year

The way I would justify it would be to say “we have a 2 year shot before we lose Giolito, we can always move the more expensive guys to clear payroll after that if needed”. 

But let’s take the next step since this is useful anyway - we would need a LH hitting Right Fielder to balance that lineup regardless of FA or Trade. Vaughn is moveable for him. Have any interesting name suggestions? Looks like Reynolds and ?

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53 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Semien has also become an exceptionally good hitter versus RHP, for a guy who bats from the right side. Take a look at his split stats, in recent years. Sure would make Sox fans forget about "Nicky Two Strikes".

Adding Conforto and Semien to that lineup would make it the most potent in baseball. If they added a top of the rotation starter, another bullpen arm, and a defense first, back up catcher, they might just become odds on favorites to win it all next season.  If Garfein is correct, it would appear that Mr. Reinsdorf is all in, which means that he would also be willing to fund the other necessary acquisitions. LaRussa knows the value of pitching depth and wouldn't advise spending all of the resources on offense. 

It certainly would be surprising to see the Sox spend that kind of money, but maybe the Chairman expects to capture the city's fan base, by putting together a roster that grabs the spot light. Fun to dream big, at any rate.

Frankly, it seems like overkill, with more offense than needed. Adding Semien and Conforto to an already good lineup of Anderson, Robert, Moncada, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal and either Vaughn or Sheets, is probably not the best allocation of player salaries. Remember, this team did not have either Eloy, or Robert, for most of last season. I'd prefer one solid middle of the order, LH bat and more pitching depth. Bring back Rodon, sign another capable starter and a good set up man, for the pen. It seems like a team needs about 7 starters to overcome the injuries, in this era. 

 

I’ll keep saying it, but our top two needs are a LH power bat and a TOR starter.  The reality is our minor league system is pretty barren on the pitching side of things.  After Lopez, you’ve got four arms in the upper minors who could potentially fill a rotation spot in the next two years in Stiever, Lambert, McClure, & Bilous.  With Keuchel 100% an exit after the 2022 season (if not sooner), at least one spot will open up.  As such, we’re going to need another starter and if we want to survive the onslaught of high-end offenses in the AL, this starter should be of the top of the rotation variety.

I think Scherzer is highly unlikely because he basically costs the same as two impact players on an AAV basis, but hell if we have that much money to spend give me Conforto and one of Ray or Gausman over double dipping with Conforto & Semien.

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https://www.fangraphs.com/players/robbie-ray/11486/stats?position=P
 

Ray had only a 2.8 fWAR cumulatively from 2018-2020.

Giving him a $150-175 contract is the definition of insanity for a franchise like the White Sox.

Even the three years prior to that, he averaged around 3.  That’s certainly good, but not the best usage of $25 million per season to buy at the highest possible price on the market.

Edited by caulfield12

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/robbie-ray/11486/stats?position=P
 

Ray had only a 2.8 fWAR cumulatively from 2018-2020.

Giving him a $150-175 contract is the definition of insanity for a franchise like the White Sox.

It’s amazing people still think this way about pitchers. 

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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/robbie-ray/11486/stats?position=P
 

Ray had only a 2.8 fWAR cumulatively from 2018-2020.

Giving him a $150-175 contract is the definition of insanity for a franchise like the White Sox.

Even the three years prior to that, he averaged around 3.  That’s certainly good, but not the best usage of $25 million per season to buy at the highest possible price on the market.

You seem to shoot down ideas left and right and never provide any of your own.  If you had a $180M to $185M payroll to work with, what exactly would you do?

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

It’s amazing people still think this way about pitchers. 

Amazing he is still in the league after 2020, really

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@Balta1701 - I’m still waiting on your plan.  This isn’t me trying to be a dick either, we just generally have different viewpoints on the Sox and I’d be curious to see how you’d go about things this offseason.

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12 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright guys, random hypothetical, but which of these scenarios would you prefer?  Assume in all three scenarios that Kimbrel is moved and cheaper bullpen reinforcements are acquired.

Option A:

  • Marcus Semien: 6/$138M | $23M AAV
  • Chris Taylor: 4/$64M | $16M AAV
  • 5th starter = Dallas Keuchel

Option B:

  • Michael Conforto: 4/$76M | $19M AAV
  • Eduardo Escobar: 2/$20M | $10M AAV
  • Chris Bassitt ($9M) for Jake Burger, Jose Rodriguez, & Jason Bilous

Option C::

  • Max Scherzer: 3/$120M | $40M AAV
  • Tony Kemp ($2M AAV) for Micker Adolfo
  • RF = mix of Vaughn & Engel

 

 

 

holy thread...what a mess that was to navigate through. 

I'm a little late but I'll take C here. Scherzer bumping our already pretty good staff is that much of a difference maker especially come October. I'll take my chances on trying to keep Engel healthy this coming year and trade for a 2b at the deadline if Kemp isn't enough.

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12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You seem to shoot down ideas left and right and never provide any of your own.  If you had a $180M to $185M payroll to work with, what exactly would you do?

I’d go with Gausman over Ray, if it was head-to-head.

Escobar is fine for a placeholder.

I think we’re more likely to see a Vaughn trade than giving Conforto or Starling Marte huge numbers.

Ketel Marte would be fine.  Bryan Reynolds.  Not sure the M’s deal Haniger now…would also look at Trammell in a change of scenery deal, but not for Vaughn…more for 4th OF to replace Engel.  Depending on how much $$$ the Padres would send along, would look at Wil Myers, who has had some really inconsistent fWAR numbers.  Frazier or Grisham are two more possibilities.  Need to make the corner outfield spots more athletic, at least one of them if they’re staying with Eloy in LF.  

Soler, depending on price.  That’s the 2000 offense, but not helping the defense by much.

I think we are MUCH likelier to end up with a DeSclafini or Alex Wood type than Gausman, however. 
 

Scherzer, no way.

 

More than likely, 50% of excitement is pushed back to trade deadline.

Edited by caulfield12

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15 minutes ago, bmags said:

It’s amazing people still think this way about pitchers. 

Dylan Cease had a higher fWAR than the Cy Young winner, and he has been almost forgotten on this board.

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Priority order of targets for me: One or more can be solved through FA but I am valueing positional versatility and have a belief that Sheets and Vaughn will both play pivial roles next year and beyond. I would be all over Diamondbacks GM, Hazan about Marte as well as several others on their roster (i.e Varsho) and wouldn't hesitate to give up one of our core for the right deal.

1) K. Marte (SH 2B who can also play OF)

2) C. Taylor (can play 2B and/or OF)

3) TOR/MOR pitcher

4) Conforto

5) BP

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11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I’d go with Gausman over Ray, if it was head-to-head.

Escobar is fine for a placeholder.

I think we’re more likely to see a Vaughn trade than giving Conforto or Starling Marte huge numbers.

Ketel Marte would be fine.  Bryan Reynolds.  Not sure the M’s deal Haniger now…would also look at Trammell in a change of scenery deal, but not for Vaughn…more for 4th OF to replace Engel.  Depending on how much $$$ the Padres would send along, would look at Wil Myers, who has had some really inconsistent fWAR numbers.  Frazier or Grisham are two more possibilities.  Need to make the corner outfield spots more athletic, at least one of them if they’re staying with Eloy in LF.  

Soler, depending on price.  That’s the 2000 offense, but not helping the defense by much.

I think we are MUCH likelier to end up with a DeSclafini or Alex Wood type than Gausman, however. 
 

Scherzer, no way.

 

More than likely, 50% of excitement is pushed back to trade deadline.

Are you even trying to win?  Seems like you’re more interested in being Jerry’s accountant than his GM.

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41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The way I would justify it would be to say “we have a 2 year shot before we lose Giolito, we can always move the more expensive guys to clear payroll after that if needed”. 

But let’s take the next step since this is useful anyway - we would need a LH hitting Right Fielder to balance that lineup regardless of FA or Trade. Vaughn is moveable for him. Have any interesting name suggestions? Looks like Reynolds and ?

- Tony Kemp played 50 games in LF last year, bats left, 130 wRC+ vs. RHP. His arm rated as positive when he was in CF in 2018

- Bet on Kole Calhoun healthy

- Kevin Keiermeier trade

Or damn handedness and get Mark Canha and have added two RHH who are 20%+ above average vs. RHP.

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6 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Did we sign Phil Collins yet?

c948b472a4a694c895627678f89510a1.gif

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25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Amazing he is still in the league after 2020, really

I mean shelby miller keeps finding jobs so not really, to me.

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Just now, bmags said:

I mean shelby miller keeps finding jobs so not really, to me.

Did my post really need green?  😂 

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

- Tony Kemp played 50 games in LF last year, bats left, 130 wRC+ vs. RHP. His arm rated as positive when he was in CF in 2018

- Bet on Kole Calhoun healthy

- Kevin Keiermeier trade

Or damn handedness and get Mark Canha and have added two RHH who are 20%+ above average vs. RHP.

I like the Kemp concept of they’re holding Vaughn, that makes a lot of sense and provides depth around the OF. 

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6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are you even trying to win?  Seems like you’re more interested in being Jerry’s accountant than his GM.

BMaggs’ subsequent list is appealing to you…?

On paper, they’re all okay ideas, but those players on the White Sox will suddenly forget what’s on the back of their baseball cards.

Kiermaier, if it was three years ago.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I like the Kemp concept of they’re holding Vaughn, that makes a lot of sense and provides depth around the OF. 

They better get rid of Leury then…

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19 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Did we sign Phil Collins yet?

Not sure, but he would be good at karaoke nights for the team.

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

BMaggs’ subsequent list is appealing to you…?

On paper, they’re all okay ideas, but those players on the White Sox will suddenly forget what’s on the back of their baseball cards.

Kiermaier, if it was three years ago.

Yeah, well they come with the fact that we added a top 3 MVP candidate, so yeah it may have to come with a lesser RFer.

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11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Did my post really need green?  😂 

Kyyle we are having communication issues, we need this mod retreat to get back on track.

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