If we don't win at least one in this series...

[caulfield12]

 

Is just ONE win enough to put out the pitchforks for many?   Probably not...

 

How will you feel about the White Sox coming into next season, at least as things stand today?

How easily will you accept both TLR AND Hahn returning?   Are you like many in the game thread who feel discouraged knowing nothing is likely to change all that dramatically as long as JR or a family member is the principal owner?  How optimistic are you that things (would) change with Jerry's son in charge of the franchise instead, like with the Bulls' new direction?

Do we spend the majority of the off-season ruminating about changes in the front office or ownership that are highly improbable to occur, knowing the way this franchise operates historically?

Do you expect any big changes, or do you think they'll be mostly cosmetic ones (a 2B or RF in the $6-8 million range, veteran relievers to replace Tepera/Kimbrel, etc.)...with the payroll still trending up (let's say $160-165 million), but no big or headline-grabbing moves, not even bringing in the likes of a veteran like Starling Marte?

Are we simply doomed to continue the AL Central's trend of losing playoff games dating back to the Cleveland Indians/Cubs 2016 World Series?

How much worse would it to be a Twins or Indians fan today...knowing how far those two teams are from competing if they trade Buxton and/or Jose Ramirez/Bieber?

 

I found my attention span drifting a bit without much of a pennant race for the majority of the second half, and due the overall "mediocre" player since the ASB.

I'll be honest in saying I was thoroughly unimpressed with the trade acquisitions (especially the Kimbrel one) and tried to get motivated again, staying up all night long here in China, but I really feel like I was punched in the face and not even sure how invested to be in Sunday's game (since another worknight/day).

I also felt that the chances of winning this series were (only) roughly 25-30%, based on the match-up earlier this season in Houston, their line-up of professional hitters, their extensive playoff experience and veteran "been there, done that" vibe was going to be an incredibly tough out for this team that struggled mightily even against the A's last post-season.

Nobody is probably SHOCKED right now, because we've ALREADY witnessed so many losses like this the last two weeks of 2020 and then off and on ever since the opening series in Anaheim this year.

 

I DO feel REALLY excited about watching Luis Robert bloom into a superstar before our eyes...but also a sense that we're a team comprised of many misfit parts and pretty likely to take a hit to the starting pitching in 2022, having a hard time believing Kopech can replace Rodon's performance seamlessly and that Lynn is probably more due for a falloff than expecting an uptick from Keuchel or Lopez or whatever "budget-savvy" veteran free agent pitcher they add to the mix.  But who knows, maybe Dylan Cease takes the next step and wins the Cy Young, right?

I'm also a bit bitter about losing both Madrigal and Heuer's years of control for that bone-headed Kimbrel move (that, once again, even our own manager's questioning why we added a HoF closer only to put him in a set-up role he wasn't well-suited for.)  And no, it's not on the level of my Fernando Tatis, Jr., obsession, lol.

 

For the Top 10-20 posters and all the various moderators at SoxTalk (now in their 30's and 40's with families and grown-up responsibilities/reality or maybe Covid-19 intruding), do you feel like it will be easy to reignite your excitement again when spring training rolls around, or you're still going to feel that same sense of waiting for the next TLR headline or embarrassing manager move that everyone could see coming pages ahead in a GameThread?

I've come to really admire those posters like Fathom and Dick Allen and many of the moderators who are there game in and game out, or Elrockin (Greg's favorite perpetually optimistic fan)...but I also woke up wondering after a 30-45 minute nap why do we keep putting ourselves through this season after season?

Obviously, some will argue that at least expecting to make the post-season is 50-100X better than 2009-2019, but there were times I really enjoyed watching the direction of the franchise (2016-2019) that it was ALMOST as fun, if not moreso.  I guess it's partly due to the expectation all that rebuilding was going to eventually lead to playoff wins and, if not another World Series, at LEAST the ALCS, even though by definition not being able to win like the Royals/Cubs/Astros did out of a massive rebuild will always be considered a failure of sorts by most Sox fans.

 

I guess it's back to that curse of being a White Sox fan, most of us through family connections or 2005.

Just like PTAC, I'm sure that I will get over my anger/frustration and start to enjoy the playoffs and sport of baseball again at some point...although maybe not until the heart of the free agent signing period if it's the Dodgers or Red Sox/Astros yet again.

 

Of course, I say this same exact thing every year about Iowa Hawkeyes FB and BB, and still never give up hope despite all the odds in the world being stacked against them ever winning a national championship in either sport...so at least the White Sox have MUCH better odds than approximately 1 in 150 or 1 in 200, right?

 

Just some random thoughts (by Jack Handey), mostly venting but in a free-style version.

P.S.  The White Sox will HOPEFULLY run off 3 in a row and make me look like an idiot, but, just in case, you probably don't want to bet on the Iowa Hawkeyes against Penn State this weekend, haha.

 

TL/DR, haha.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by caulfield12

[joejoesox]

are you trying to piss us off

[southsider2k5]

🛌

[TheTruth05]

Wow

[maloney.adam]

Wow you wrote a book here. Lol

Edited October 9, 2021 by maloney.adam

[MexSoxFan#1]

Hey Gio, watch Logan Webb and take note, that's how you pitch when your team is depending on you.

[caulfield12]

46 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Wow you wrote a book here. Lol

Sox-related therapy....they could probably offer all their fans the last 75 years or so psychiatric help and raise a significant if not massive amount of money for Sox Charities.

Edited October 9, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Hey Gio, watch Logan Webb and take note, that's how you pitch when your team is depending on you.

Not quite a must-win situation, but that's a great statement to show that the Giants are legit and truly belong on that big stage...especially going up against Buehler, who has been almost impossible to beat in his Dodgers' post-season career (reflects wistfully on the Carson Fulmer Era of White Sox rebuild baseball.)

But you shut down arguably the best offensive line-up in the NL, that's quite an accomplishment and he's pitched with very little fanfare the entire season, unless you're a huge baseball fan, live on the West Coast and/or are a dedicated rotisserie league/fantasy owner.

 

Of course, to add insult to injury, the name Tommy LaStella.

The Giants have done an amazing job assembling that pitching staff from where they were a year ago today, Zaidi's one of the best analytical minds in the game.  He has made more positive pitching moves in an off season than the White Sox have made over the course of an entire decade, seemingly.

Edited October 9, 2021 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

Onions.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Onions.

The outer onion layers must be peeled away if the real truth is to be revealed about this team.

Or I can just offer a reply of "poop" I guess.

[hi8is]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The outer onion layers must be peeled away if the real truth is to be revealed about this team.

Or I can just offer a reply of "poop" I guess.

“Pearl” is the optimal single word choice as a reply in my opinion… but poop is a wonderful go to on the occasion that you do not agree with the sentiment expressed.

[Chimpton]

Well at least it was nice spending the season talking about the post season, just a pity that it is unlikely to go beyond 3 games in 4 days.  😢

[The Mighty Mite]

If we lose in 3, 4 or 5 games or even come back and win,  there are some issues with the team

1. TLR was not the answer as manager, this was a mediocre team after the All Star break with a lot of questionable moves by LaRussa which has continued in the first 2 games against the Astros. We won the division in spite of bim. Hiring him was another bad move by Reinsdorf in a long list of many.

2. We need a rightfielder who can hit and hit with power. Sheets and Vaughn could be the answer but their defense is the problem. I love Engel but only as the 4th outfielder.

Scroll down, I messed up as I'm getting old. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. We need a second baseman, are there any Altuve clones avaiable, Luery and Hernandez are not the answer.

4. We need another starting pitcher, maybe 2 as Rodon is injury prone and Kuechel really regressed, hopefully Kopech and Lopez can fill the void.

5. I have concerns about Eloy, maybe the injury screwed things up things with him and he comes back strong next year.

6. Catching is a problem, Grandall is no Officer Karkovice defensively plus we need a better backup guy, an ideal situation is signing a guy who would take over the catching duties with Grandall the backup which would also free him up as the main DH.

7. The bullpen needs 1 or 2 more reliable guys especially if Kopech  becomes a starter.

8. Abreu is no spring chicken, he will need more rest next year, Grandall could spell him more at first with Jose DHing.

9. What happens to Jake Burger, he's ready to play in the Majors. I wasn't a big Moncada fan in the past but his defense was outstanding so do the Sox trade Burger?  Can he play second, probaby not. What could we get for him maybe in a package with Vaughn as I think we should keep Sheets.

I expect a busy off-season if Hahn looks at things honestly and hasn't fallen in love with his players and is wearing blinders.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by The Mighty Mite

[Rusty_Kuntz]

I've been a fan for 40 years, but at some point I don't know how people can follow this franchise closely and consistently over time. It's extremely frustrating and often embarrassing. I didn't really watch intently from about 2012 to 2019. I got excited a bit last year with the young talent, got MLB, and was pleasantly surprised. Obviously this year has been fun, but ultimately the same old shit just more talent. 

That said I am complete sucker for the Bears, I get excited every year, and they are probably even more poorly run than the Sox. 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Rusty_Kuntz

[SpringfieldFan]

First, I am not on board with big headline grabbing moves from this FO. They tried that in July.

I also don’t ever want to see anything about a bullpen on the wishlist. How many times to we want to keep tapping that well?

The situation is that this team wasn’t tempered by the fire of a competitive divisional race. They have the talent, but it appears they do not have the mettle.

[reiks12]

Sorry not reading all that but Hahn has to go if we get swept. We all know he has a job for life though.

[The Mighty Mite]

2 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

First, I am not on board with big headline grabbing moves from this FO. They tried that in July.

I also don’t ever want to see anything about a bullpen on the wishlist. How many times to we want to keep tapping that well?

The situation is that this team wasn’t tempered by the fire of a competitive divisional race. They have the talent, but it appears they do not have the mettle.

 

I agree, we  could say "where's the beef".

Edited October 9, 2021 by The Mighty Mite

[justBLAZE]

If TLR was really forced on Hahn then I think Hahn should stay and get his pick of manager.

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, reiks12 said:

Sorry not reading all that but Hahn has to go if we get swept. We all know he has a job for life though.

Hahn has provided most of the parts necessary for a successful team during the rebuild, he has not managed them, so sacking him at this point would be harsh in my opinion. TLR was brought in (by Jerry) to win postseason games, so far he has shown no more ability to do that than Ricky R. 

[shago]

14 minutes ago, justBLAZE said:

If TLR was really forced on Hahn then I think Hahn should stay and get his pick of manager.

Never going to happen. Jerry's ego will never allow him to admit the obvious TLR blunder. Hahn is gone. Next crony up .....

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

If we lose in 3, 4 or 5 games or even come back and win,  there are some issues with the team

1. TLR was not the answer as manager, this was a mediocre team after the All Star break with a lot of questionable moves by LaRussa which has continued in the first 2 games against the Astros. We won the division in spite of bim. Hiring him was another bad move by Reinsdorf in a long list of many.

2. We need a rightfielder who can hit and hit with power. Sheets and Vaughn could be the answer but their defense is the problem. I love Engel but only as the 4th outfielder.

Scroll down, I messed up as I'm getting old. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. We need a second baseman, are there any Altuve clones avaiable, Luery and Hernandez are not the answer.

4. We need another starting pitcher, maybe 2 as Rodon is injury prone and Kuechel really regressed, hopefully Kopech and Lopez can fill the void.

5. I have concerns about Eloy, maybe the injury screwed things up things with him and he comes back strong next year.

6. Catching is a problem, Grandall is no Officer Karkovice defensively plus we need a better backup guy, an ideal situation is signing a guy who would take over the catching duties with Grandall the backup which would also free him up as the main DH.

7. The bullpen needs 1 or 2 more reliable guys especially if Kopech  becomes a starter.

8. Abreu is no spring chicken, he will need more rest next year, Grandall could spell him more at first with Jose DHing.

9. What happens to Jake Burger, he's ready to play in the Majors. I wasn't a big Moncada fan in the past but his defense was outstanding so do the Sox trade Burger?  Can he play second, probaby not. What could we get for him maybe in a package with Vaughn as I think we should keep Sheets.

I expect a busy off-season if Hahn looks at things honestly and hasn't fallen in love with his players and is wearing blinders.

 

 

 

 

 

All of this, plus they need to evaluate players on the roster and dump some for some change. Leury is versatile but goes into long stretches where he does nothing. They definitely need a catcher, there were too many passed balls this season and too many miscues on defense. DJ is spot on with what he said about how the Astros win, they pick up on the little things the Sox have done wrong and then get the hits they need to bring runners home. You don’t see that from the Sox.

They need to seriously consider their starting pitching and figure out who they need to add. If Rodon is damaged goods, they need another starter. 

Lastly, they need a deep dive into why they were .500 after the all star break and why they couldn’t succeed against teams with a winning record. Is it talent? Is there a specific weakness being exploited? Can the analytics tell them anything or why did they not get it done this year?

Lastly, who replaces TLR when he retires? And more importantly, will they win a playoff game, get past the ALDS and compete?

[maloney.adam]

I think Hahn’s job is safe here but I feel that if he is given an opportunity to go somewhere else he would take it. Most likely to an organization where he has more say or control over the decisions. Somewhere where the manager isn’t involved in the FO decisions and the owner allows him to hire his own people and doesn’t restrict how much money he spends to field a championship team.

Edited October 9, 2021 by maloney.adam

[NWINFan]

15 minutes ago, The Beast said:

All of this, plus they need to evaluate players on the roster and dump some for some change. Leury is versatile but goes into long stretches where he does nothing. They definitely need a catcher, there were too many passed balls this season and too many miscues on defense. DJ is spot on with what he said about how the Astros win, they pick up on the little things the Sox have done wrong and then get the hits they need to bring runners home. You don’t see that from the Sox.

They need to seriously consider their starting pitching and figure out who they need to add. If Rodon is damaged goods, they need another starter. 

Lastly, they need a deep dive into why they were .500 after the all star break and why they couldn’t succeed against teams with a winning record. Is it talent? Is there a specific weakness being exploited? Can the analytics tell them anything or why did they not get it done this year?

Lastly, who replaces TLR when he retires? And more importantly, will they win a playoff game, get past the ALDS and compete?

All of these are valid points. This team faces some strong challenges this off-season. The rebuild needs to be built upon.

[joejoesox]

it's the bargain bin coaching staff, not up to snuff.  they don't get these guys ready to play, it's pretty obvious

also, really bad defensive team, like bottom of the league (also a coaching issue)

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I think Hahn’s job is safe here but I feel that he’s going to find another job. Most likely to a team that is rebuilding and where he has more say or control over the decisions.

But where would we be now without having traded Sale, Eaton, Q…?   Not seeing why Hahn would be in huge demand, compared to assistants from the truly revolutionary front offices like LA, TB, SF, Milwaukee, etc.

We brag about our draft picks making the bigs, but how many are true high impact guys assuming Rodon leaves?   You still have just Anderson and the 50/50 coin flip fortune of Luis Robert signing for less money to hang your hat on.  

Collins, Burdi, Fulmer, Heuer and Madrigal are gone or worthless.  Jury still out on Crochet, Vaughn and Sheets.