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We All Know What the Problem Is: Jerry Reinsdorf

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As a Brit on here I know that in football (soccer) fans of unsuccessful teams always blame the manager and/or the owners as well, but there have been too many examples of 'careful what you wish for' when it comes to new owners. As a Liverpool fan we were bought by two Americans in Hicks and Gillette who far from moving Liverpool onwards and upwards nearly bankrupted the club. It was only when FSG (I know not popular with White Sox fans as rival owners) took over that things began to improve and a winning team returned. Has the same happened in baseball or other US sports? I suppose I am just saying that a change of owner isn't always a magic bullet that brings a change in fortune.

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Just now, Chimpton said:

As a Brit on here I know that in football (soccer) fans of unsuccessful teams always blame the manager and/or the owners as well, but there have been too many examples of 'careful what you wish for' when it comes to new owners. As a Liverpool fan we were bought by two Americans in Hicks and Gillette who far from moving Liverpool onwards and upwards nearly bankrupted the club. It was only when FSG (I know not popular with White Sox fans as rival owners) took over that things began to improve and a winning team returned. Has the same happened in baseball or other US sports? I suppose I am just saying that a change of owner isn't always a magic bullet that brings a change in fortune.

Can I ask where in England do you live?  And why did we not know each other in 2012 so we could comfort each other when we choked down the stretch.  I lived in New Cross Gate, Lewisham, for my years there.

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I couldn't stop laughing at Lance Lynn being a cheapskate move.

Have you seen his contract?

1 year 9M.  Cheapest mid-rotation or better starter in all of baseball who was available.  So keep laughing.

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1 minute ago, Colome's Hat said:

Can I ask where in England do you live?  And why did we not know each other in 2012 so we could comfort each other when we choked down the stretch.  I lived in New Cross Gate, Lewisham, for my years there.

I live just South of London, I know that is miles from Liverpool but I started supporting them when I was 5! The disappointments just made it all the better when we finally won the league after a 30 year wait in 2020.   

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Jerry is obviously responsible for hiring Tony. He is partly responsible for the white sox struggles from 2013-2018.

But we have built up a hell of a roster and we are losing to the Astros because on field stuff. 

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2 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

I live just South of London, I know that is miles from Liverpool but I started supporting them when I was 5! The disappointments just made it all the better when we finally won the league after a 30 year wait in 2020.   

Love it.  You should check out Roger Bennett's podcast with Chuck Garfien about his fandom.

Although me trying to explain that Alexi Ramirez was a good hitter when he was hitting near .300 to my flatmate was impossible.  He demanded that Alexi get a hit everytime he came to at bat.  He also called Francisco Liriano a good bowler.

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Say what you will about Reinsdorf, but it's his club. (mostly) He can run it any way he wants, as a fan you can stop buying his product. However, he got a sweetheart deal with the state to stay in Chicago. The park is 30 years old, despite alterations, it's getting at least middle aged, if not old. Also, it's still in a less desirable part of the metro area. I wouldn't be surprised that when Jerry dies, or becomes incapacitated, look for the Sox to move out of Chicago. The population here is shrinking and the question will be does Chicago deserve two MLB teams when growing cities like Las Vegas, Oklahoma City, Austin/San Antonio, Nashville, Orlando, Charlotte have none.

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13 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Have you seen his contract?

1 year 9M.  Cheapest mid-rotation or better starter in all of baseball who was available.  So keep laughing.

You are just going to ignore his extension,  so yes, yes I will keep laughing. 

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7 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Love it.  You should check out Roger Bennett's podcast with Chuck Garfien about his fandom.

Although me trying to explain that Alexi Ramirez was a good hitter when he was hitting near .300 to my flatmate was impossible.  He demanded that Alexi get a hit everytime he came to at bat.  He also called Francisco Liriano a good bowler.

Haha, there are many people in the UK who dismiss baseball as rounders but I was hooked after seeing the White Sox live when I was 12 and we went on a family holiday to America, starting in Chicago. 

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Who keeps liking posts with the laughing emoji when some of the posts aren’t meant to be funny or sarcastic. Lol

Edited by maloney.adam
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The meatball nature of this negativity is amazing.  There is a randomness to baseball. it used to be the best teams met in the World Series because only the top team in the AL and the top team in the NL went to the playoffs.   You had 154 games to decide who was the best team and it was hard to debate with a sample size of 154 games.  Now most of you have determined that the White Sox are a mess based on a sample size of two games??   Zeby Savala had 90 at bats where he hit .128 with 2 home runs.  He had two games where he went 6 for 7 with 3 home runs.  Can we say based on those two games that Zeby is the greatest player of all time...or was it just randomness?   The core of this team has greatness inside of it.  I don't think anyone of us thought that this was going to be the best team of the run.  If they lose on Sunday are are swept away...well it was an exciting year...and it will be an interesting off season and next year will be exciting too.  If they win on Sunday...well it's NOT over...as a Bucks fan, the Bucks lost the first two games of the conference semi finals, the first game at home in the conference finals and the first two games of the finals.   Teams can come back.  And it is worth remembering...Dodgers won an average of 96 games a year for 7 years and won zero world series...and it was only in the COVID shortened season that they finally won.  Enjoy the day to day greatness of the team because in a winner take all series even Baltimore could have a few good days.      

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6 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

Say what you will about Reinsdorf, but it's his club. (mostly) He can run it any way he wants, as a fan you can stop buying his product. However, he got a sweetheart deal with the state to stay in Chicago. The park is 30 years old, despite alterations, it's getting at least middle aged, if not old. Also, it's still in a less desirable part of the metro area. I wouldn't be surprised that when Jerry dies, or becomes incapacitated, look for the Sox to move out of Chicago. The population here is shrinking and the question will be does Chicago deserve two MLB teams when growing cities like Las Vegas, Oklahoma City, Austin/San Antonio, Nashville, Orlando, Charlotte have none.

I always hate the argument that as a fan you can stop buying his product (no offense meant to you) but as a fan of a team you can't just switch off your support, no matter how bad the team is or the owner is a fan can't just turn off the passion that makes them support that team. 

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I'll admit JR's hiring of TLR really bothered me even more than all the other stuff in the past. It took a lot of fun out of the season

for me, and because of that I watched a lot less. On the plus side, if we get swept part of me won't be nearly as sad as usual be-

cause TLR will look even stupider. Imagine being out managed by Dusty Baker.

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1 minute ago, zisk said:

I'll admit JR's hiring of TLR really bothered me even more than all the other stuff in the past. It took a lot of fun out of the season

for me, and because of that I watched a lot less. On the plus side, if we get swept part of me won't be nearly as sad as usual be-

cause TLR will look even stupider. Imagine being out managed by Dusty Baker.

I know how you feel. As a big football (soccer) fan here in the UK I can remember a time when I actually wanted my team to lose because it meant that the manager we had who was hopeless was a game nearer the sack. It felt dirty hoping to lose but in the long run it worked as a couple of managers later we were back on top of the League and winning trophies.

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1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

I think a name to watch in the future for White Sox manager is Justin Jirschele. 

I like Jirschele too.  In a disaster of a minor league season for the Sox.  JJ led the Barons, who didn't have many of the Sox top 30 prospects, to a winning record.  I think he's won at every level that he's managed.  I was hoping for him before the TLR decision but understood because he was only 30 and I'm not sure you hand the keys of the Ferrari over to a kid.  Another year of success by him...and TLR mixed results...who knows.  

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46 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

I live just South of London, I know that is miles from Liverpool but I started supporting them when I was 5! The disappointments just made it all the better when we finally won the league after a 30 year wait in 2020.   

I think @Bazoxis our other resident fan from London. There's been a few others over the years as well.

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49 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Who keeps liking posts with the laughing emoji when some of the posts aren’t meant to be funny or sarcastic. Lol

It has to be someone who loves TLR and laugh reacts when people say things about him.  Happens in any thread where TLR is dunked on for being shitty at his job.

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1 hour ago, zisk said:

I'll admit JR's hiring of TLR really bothered me even more than all the other stuff in the past. It took a lot of fun out of the season

for me, and because of that I watched a lot less. On the plus side, if we get swept part of me won't be nearly as sad as usual be-

cause TLR will look even stupider. Imagine being out managed by Dusty Baker.

On the bright side back to back post seasons.  We are not use to that. So often was the mental breakdown in August.  Maybe the covid season created some over hyped expectations.  Injuries were all across baseball but pick 2 important guys from any team and wonder how they would fare.  There are fans of other teams that are very disappointed this season. 

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2 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

It's the baseball version of GarPax in the FO.  That's the dorf's fault.

And yes, the players sucked yesterday, but also TLR didn't have to be manager and the VP doesn't have to be KW.

The dorf's cheapskate moves of Lynn and Rodon turned out great.  He won the offseason by default.  But then again failing to pay for a legit RF really hurt.  A good portion of what could have been Springer's money ultimately went to giant minuses in Kimbrel and Eaton who have only been considerably worse than the non-roster guys we already had in Charlotte.

Without Williams and Paddy, no Abreu or Robert, not so bueno.

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Does anyone really believe a team can just say they want a player and magically they will get him at a fair price? There is a team on the field that could win. Not the absolute best in baseball, but good enough to win a playoff game.

Is it our players are not performing to their capabilities? Is it Houston is just better? Or is it the octogenarian owner? I’ll blame or give credit to the players.

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2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does anyone really believe a team can just say they want a player and magically they will get him at a fair price? There is a team on the field that could win. Not the absolute best in baseball, but good enough to win a playoff game.

Is it our players are not performing to their capabilities? Is it Houston is just better? Or is it the octogenarian owner? I’ll blame or give credit to the players.

If you're not willing to pay an "unfair" price at least sometimes, you'd better be as perfect at drafting as Tampa Bay if you want to win in the postseason.

There were better options for RF than Adam Eaton, better options for a backup 2B/SS than Leury Garcia, and better options for RH setup than Even Marshal/Codi Heuer.

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13 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

If you're not willing to pay an "unfair" price at least sometimes, you'd better be as perfect at drafting as Tampa Bay if you want to win in the postseason.

There were better options for RF than Adam Eaton, better options for a backup 2B/SS than Leury Garcia, and better options for RH setup than Even Marshal/Codi Heuer.

Yes there are. And the asking price may have been a top starter. 

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5 hours ago, Chimpton said:

As a Brit on here I know that in football (soccer) fans of unsuccessful teams always blame the manager and/or the owners as well, but there have been too many examples of 'careful what you wish for' when it comes to new owners. As a Liverpool fan we were bought by two Americans in Hicks and Gillette who far from moving Liverpool onwards and upwards nearly bankrupted the club. It was only when FSG (I know not popular with White Sox fans as rival owners) took over that things began to improve and a winning team returned. Has the same happened in baseball or other US sports? I suppose I am just saying that a change of owner isn't always a magic bullet that brings a change in fortune.

Family from Liverpool, split Everton and Liverpool in the family (same as Sox and Cubs in my family here). Pulled my lifelong fandom of Liverpool in April with their Super League scheme. Will not return ever, or perhaps possibly only after the stench of the FSG scum is wiped clean from Anfield.

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1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Yes there are. And the asking price may have been a top starter. 

I was thinking of free agency, not trades.

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Still a lot of lifers and FOHs around.  The scouting director is  Sox lifer (20 years), Getz' had little experience when named farm director (but he's a friend of Hahn).  The prior scouting director, is now a Hahn assistant, in charge of pro scouting (that didn't go well in July).

They're about the last to move team to adopt analytics world; and now that they have them, are they using state-of-the-art analytics or are they still behind?
The loyalty to Williams (who should move along) I understand - the prospect accumulation in the late 1990s when he was in charge of the draft, 2005, Cuban connection, 9 winning or .500  seasons out of 12 as GM.  But Hahn?

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