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Offseason Thread

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1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, but this FO has spent more on their bullpen than all but three teams (Dodgers, Yankees & Mets). It's cheaper than signing a top SP or starting hitter.

The Sox were the only team to give a large (over $10M) multi-year (3 year) reliever FA contract last offseason.

2021 FA by AAV: Hendriks $18.0; Rosenthal $11.0M; Hand $10.5; Treinen $8.8; May $7.8; Colome $6.3.

2021 FA by total dollars: Hendriks $54.0 (3 years); Treinen $17.5 (2); May $15.5 (2); Baez $12.5 (2); Rosenthal $11.0 (1); Hand $10.5 (1).

And the Sox have had two straight years of the bullpen imploding in the postseason

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, besides Konerko and Buehrle, but he's in arguably had more of an influence on bringing other Cubans into the fold, Robert in particular.

The young pitcher, Vera, that we signed, Cespedes and Colas, etc.

 

Seems the logical assets to look at offloading would be Sheets and/or Burger.

If Sheets has any meaningful value, trade him tomorrow but I doubt a platoon only, non prospect, player without a position is worth anything.

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14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Vaughn does seem like a Dodgers fitting player, but with Muncy and Bellinger and others on their roster I struggle to see them paying that much for him. Interesting concept.

Vaughn can rotate between 1B and LF for them.  I know they got a great season out of Pollock, but dude has a terrible track record of staying healthy.  But yeah, hard to say if that’s something they’d even consider.  At least the financials would work well for them.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox part ways with at least one fan favorite player in some kind of creative trade, they aren't going to be bumping up payroll on guys like Scherzer (wouldn't that be fucking awesome?) or even Semien

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I anticipate they move one of Eloy or Yoan and people lose their shit. I’m not advocating either move

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9 minutes ago, fathom said:

And the Sox have had two straight years of the bullpen imploding in the postseason

Not defending it, just stating what their philosophy was this year.

Their bullpen was solid to excellent last postseason, Heuer and Rodon being the exceptions. It was shitty in 2021 after all of Hahn's spending ($s and traded players), and La Russa's mismanagement. Executive of the year's top acquisition, Dallas Keuchel, was the one who sucked ass, plus Hahn's insistence to use Rodon out of the bullpen for the first time of his life coming off an injury because he acquired absolutely nothing at the deadline (and not much in the offseason).

Renteria did far more with far less resources than La Russa. Not saying Ricky is the answer, but La Russa has made things worse.

2020 Playoff ERA:

  • 0.00 (9 innings) Foster, Crochet, Cordero, Colome, Cease, Bummer
  • 3.38 (2 2/3) Marshall
  • 7.71 (2 1/3) Heuer
  • Infinite (0) Rodon (2 ERs)

 

 

Edited by South Side Hit Men

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10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Vaughn can rotate between 1B and LF for them.  I know they got a great season out of Pollock, but dude has a terrible track record of staying healthy.  But yeah, hard to say if that’s something they’d even consider.  At least the financials would work well for them.

You're not going to trade someone at his age only two years removed from an MVP unless they really believe he's not capable of pulling out of it...

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6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not defending it, just stating what their philosophy was this year.

Their bullpen was solid to excellent last postseason, Heuer and Rodon being the exceptions. It was shitty in 2021 after all of Hahn's spending ($s and traded players), and La Russa's mismanagement. Executive of the year's top acquisition, Dallas Keuchel, was the one who sucked ass, plus Hahn's insistence to use Rodon out of the bullpen for the first time of his life coming off an injury because he acquired absolutely nothing at the deadline (and not much in the offseason).

Renteria did far more with far less resources than La Russa. Not saying Ricky is the answer, but La Russa has made things worse.

2020 Playoff ERA:

  • 0.00 (9 innings) Foster, Crochet, Cordero, Colome, Cease, Bummer
  • 3.38 (2 2/3) Marshall
  • 7.71 (2 1/3) Heuer
  • Infinite (0) Rodon (2 ERs)

 

 

I'm still pretty convinced that not having Cordero this year made a significant difference.   And Bummer kinda wandered in and out of significance...where he wasn't always the go-to lefty.

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

You're not going to trade someone at his age only two years removed from an MVP unless they really believe he's not capable of pulling out of it...

I’m proposing a Vaughn for Lux trade, not Bellinger.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m proposing a Vaughn for Lux trade, not Bellinger.

If Vaughn ended the year strongly, but you don't trade middle infielders capable of playing multiple positions for corner guys unless they are "sure" things.

I don't know that we can be anywhere close to 100% confident Vaughn will put up .280, 25-30 homers and 80-90 RBI's next year.

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If Gavin has some trade value now he’s the one to deal imo.  Vaughn will be one our best hitters next year and his value is probably at his lowest.  Keep him here.  

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5 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

If Gavin has some trade value now he’s the one to deal imo.  Vaughn will be one our best hitters next year and his value is probably at his lowest.  Keep him here.  

This is where I'm at. He was rushed and it was frustrating to watch. Some seasoning in AA or AAA would have done him well. He still has huge offensive potential. 

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They have too many righty hitters with no defensive value. One of them has to go.

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36 minutes ago, fathom said:

Eloy should just stick at DH. It’s so embarrassing that he has to play everyone at the track so he doesn’t hurt himself. Just a clown show 

Honestly, I think he is the main guy to trade like they did Carlos Lee in '04.  Use him to fill two other holes on the team.  Grab a stud pitcher and either a RF or 2B.  Slide Vaughn over to LF and sign a 2B or RF that you didn't get in that trade.  Though Ideally, Moncada would be the one that would be more preferable to move, but as was pointed out earlier, you wouldn't get as much back for him really at this point as I think you would with Eloy

The reality is, the front office is going to have to get creative to make this team better next year.  I highly doubt massive free agent spending is in the cards.  Have to be honest and know how it will play out. 

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My biggest concern is not necessarily the players but the manager and coaches. All season the record against >.500 teams has been poor and once again when the pressure is applied post season the basics are badly missing. Watching some of the fielding this series has been embarrassing, seeing a man steal 2nd & 3rd as easily as that in a postseason game is just unbelievable.

My point is that you can assemble a team of talented players but if they are coached and managed badly they will under-perform. Why do so many players traded for by the Sox put up some of their worst numbers when they arrive? The young players and talent we have are potentially being wasted and picking up bad habits that will stall their development under the present regime. People talk of trading Eloy or Moncada but these are players of massive potential who really have stalled or regressed under the manager and coaches (I just know that if traded they would start to show that potential elsewhere). TLR was brought in for his postseason experience and if anything this season's postseason performance was worse than last. 

Unless the manager and coaches are changed we will waste another season next year with key players getting older, young players stalling in development and the window getting smaller. 

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

If Vaughn ended the year strongly, but you don't trade middle infielders capable of playing multiple positions for corner guys unless they are "sure" things.

I don't know that we can be anywhere close to 100% confident Vaughn will put up .280, 25-30 homers and 80-90 RBI's next year.

I love how caufield pivots off one incorrect point and just pretends... well my point still stands with the other guy too.

For the record, I think lux is overrated as a prospect and will not figure it out and become a good big leaguer. 

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Short stodgy players like Vaughn usually do not develop speed and quickness with age. Instead they develop strength and bulk.

 

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3 hours ago, soulfly said:

Honestly, I think he is the main guy to trade like they did Carlos Lee in '04.  Use him to fill two other holes on the team.  Grab a stud pitcher and either a RF or 2B.  Slide Vaughn over to LF and sign a 2B or RF that you didn't get in that trade.  Though Ideally, Moncada would be the one that would be more preferable to move, but as was pointed out earlier, you wouldn't get as much back for him really at this point as I think you would with Eloy

The reality is, the front office is going to have to get creative to make this team better next year.  I highly doubt massive free agent spending is in the cards.  Have to be honest and know how it will play out. 

Except that was all about clearing the payroll, C-Lee, Ordonez (especially) and Valentin were all expensive...Eloy has not reached that point of his contract, YET.

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2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I love how caufield pivots off one incorrect point and just pretends... well my point still stands with the other guy too.

For the record, I think lux is overrated as a prospect and will not figure it out and become a good big leaguer. 

Lux at 2B makes a lot more sense than Burger at 3B and Moncada at second...but I would agree about Lux.

That said, Urias with the Brewers finally had a really decent season.

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5 hours ago, ron883 said:

This is where I'm at. He was rushed and it was frustrating to watch. Some seasoning in AA or AAA would have done him well. He still has huge offensive potential. 

I was roasted during preseason for saying the Covid practice squad wasn’t enough. Ideally he would have been a mid season call up with fans bitching the whole time he already should have been up. I believe he’ll be a part of next year’s team advancing past the first round. While some guys are on the declining side of the curve, he’s on the improving side of the curve.

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It would be so White Sox to trade away their #4 (already done) and #3 picks for failing veterans. If they trade Vaughn for more of the same I think im going to have to take a break from baseball.

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I bet Rick Hahn is counting the days until SoxFest.......is over.

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3 minutes ago, wegner said:

I bet Rick Hahn is counting the days until SoxFest.......is over.

I think it’s more likely he’s in his office right now staring out the window wondering what happened in the 2nd half of the season and in the postseason. Lol

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Just now, maloney.adam said:

I think it’s more likely he’s in his office right now staring out the window wondering what happened in the 2nd half of the season and in the postseason. Lol

While he quietly mumbles...."Process over Performance"

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