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Offseason Thread

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13 hours ago, Chimpton said:

I am really puzzled by the number of posters on here saying Eloy Jimenez should/could be traded.

His poor 2021 batting stats on a relatively small sample can possibly be attributed to his injury which was a serious one and being in the pectoral area is likely to have effected his batting even after coming back. His 162 game average is 38 home runs and he is a left handed power bat in a line up that lacks left handers. Added to which he is only 24 and has the potential to improve.

I know that he is not the best fielder but his dWAR has improved season on season suggesting he is working on it, and once again he is only 24, I know he will never be a good fielder but he may become adequate. 

Finally the injury prone accusation, before this season's big injury in 2019 & 2020 he made more appearances than Tim Anderson and only 7 less than Yoan Moncada neither of whom are accused of being injury prone as much as Eloy.

I really think we have yet to see the best of Eloy and talk of trading him, and even some people suggesting we would not get much in return, is unbelievable. But I am prepared to be proved wrong or persuaded of the error of my ways.

 

 

I don’t think he should be traded but they need to explore it. The White Sox have a Jose Abreu problem. He’s very good. His mere presence causes roster gymnastics however. This team needs to get more left handed. They should have openings in RF and 2B. It’s hard to roster Jimenez, Vaughn and Abreu while trying to get Sheets some time. Also, everyone wants a defensive catcher. That puts Yaz at DH. Lots of roster redundancies and real decisions to make. 

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14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Hype

The Reality:

  • Game 1 - 1 Run
  • Game 2 - 4 Runs
  • Game 3 - 12 Runs <= AKA One Shinning Moment
  • Game 4 - 1 Run

Runs per game 4.5.

 

Would much rather have a +140 game sample size than 3 or 4  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Would much rather have a +140 game sample size than 3 or 4  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

140 Sample Size = a majority of games against Tanking Teams. The Sox offense looked like shit most games against the playoff teams, second series against the injury/COVID decimated Yankees (which they still lost two of three, the non La Russa game the only victory) the outlier. Grandal or Eloy playing anywhere close to 140 games only happens in a video game.

Bottom line is Benetti's Hyped numbers were just as small of a sample size, and were compiled against the shittiest teams in baseball.

  • at Boston (4.0 Runs Per Game)
  • at New York AL 1.7
  • vs. Saint Louis 4.3
  • vs. Tampa Bay 4.3
  • at Houston 2.0
  • vs. Houston 5.0
  • at Milwaukee 1.7
  • vs. New York AL 5.6
  • at Tampa Bay 3.7
  • vs. Boston 4.7
  • ALDS Houston 4.5

Average: 3.77 runs per game.

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36 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

140 Sample Size = a majority of games against Tanking Teams. The Sox offense looked like shit most games against the playoff teams, second series against the injury/COVID decimated Yankees (which they still lost two of three, the non La Russa game the only victory) the outlier. Grandal or Eloy playing anywhere close to 140 games only happens in a video game.

Bottom line is Benetti's Hyped numbers were just as small of a sample size, and were compiled against the shittiest teams in baseball.

  • at Boston (4.0 Runs Per Game)
  • at New York AL 1.7
  • vs. Saint Louis 4.3
  • vs. Tampa Bay 4.3
  • at Houston 2.0
  • vs. Houston 5.0
  • at Milwaukee 1.7
  • vs. New York AL 5.6
  • at Tampa Bay 3.7
  • vs. Boston 4.7
  • ALDS Houston 4.5

Average: 3.77 runs per game.

They don't have a 140 game sample size because they haven't played together for more than 7 games.  

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5 hours ago, hi8is said:

It’s a common saying in another circle I’m familiar with… figured you were as well but nope! 😆

Now that I think about it, I stole that line from Denzel Washington in "The Equalizer" 

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27 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

They don't have a 140 game sample size because they haven't played together for more than 7 games.  

So what are the odds they play together 140 times next season? It seems like it would be a mistake to assume that will happen.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So what are the odds they play together 140 times next season? It seems like it would be a mistake to assume that will happen.

Balta I know this is your time to shine when you get to tell everyone that they are and were wrong to believe in this team and every move you would have made would have been right and all moves actually made were clearly wrong, but move your little rain cloud elsewhere im not engaging with your doom bullshit this off-season. 

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1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Balta I know this is your time to shine when you get to tell everyone that they are and were wrong to believe in this team and every move you would have made would have been right and all moves actually made were clearly wrong, but move your little rain cloud elsewhere im not engaging with your doom bullshit this off-season. 

You’re in the offseason thread. You made a point that these guys have not played together much. Does that mean you think they should count on it happening next year or are you advocating bringing in a different player somewhere? If you don’t want to talk baseball team construction then don’t come into a thread about it, make a relevant point on baseball team construction, and get snippy when I ask for you to take it to its conclusion and outline a strategy.

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13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So what are the odds they play together 140 times next season? It seems like it would be a mistake to assume that will happen.

Well we can expect Tony to start resting guys in April so who really knows.

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

You’re in the offseason thread. You made a point that these guys have not played together much. Does that mean you think they should count on it happening next year or are you advocating bringing in a different player somewhere? If you don’t want to talk baseball team construction then don’t come into a thread about it, make a relevant point on baseball team construction, and get snippy when I ask for you to take it to its conclusion and outline a strategy.

Balta, you are right about everything.  We know.  😘 

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10 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Well we can expect Tony to start resting guys in April so who really knows.

Bah, rest is fine. The next Billy Hamilton can cover when guys are resting. Goodwin in CF might have cost us a game or two, but it didn’t ruin the season. The real question is whether we need to structure our bench to cover for long injuries. That could be a “Trade Eloy” message or a “We need a much better backup CF option capable of starting for a long stretch at any OF position” message.

Edit: second thought: we saw Engel unable to fill that role this season. While a new OF would be more expensive than him, his Arb money could go some of the way to covering that, and we might need his roster spot too. 

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Get over yourself balta

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45 minutes ago, bmags said:

Get over yourself balta

Who in their right mind would be positive about LaRussa coming back or picking up Kimbrel’s option?

Now if our payroll was going to be at least $165-170 million…with no Kimbrel on the roster, at least that would be a bit better.

This year, we have 3 of the 5 highest payrolls remaining, and even the Braves are 12th.

We have ONE advantage over the rest of the league, Cuban player signings.  But does anyone really believe Cespedes or Colas will take is to the next level during this window?

I might bet more money on Vera.

We just don’t do any of the little things well that win you games when trams of similar talent meet.  We also don’t have a guy like Scherzer or a farm system that would ever allow you to trade for even half that trade at the deadline, let alone Turner, a sneaky MVP-level player.

 

Edited by caulfield12
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3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Hype

The Reality:

  • Game 1 - 1 Run
  • Game 2 - 4 Runs
  • Game 3 - 12 Runs <= AKA One Shinning Moment
  • Game 4 - 1 Run

Runs per game 4.5.

 

The Astros took advantage of our offensive coaching. They WANT you to hit groundballs, infield defense is their strength and man did they put it on display. Their shifts were impeccable. Menechino told these guys all year to just hit for contact, dont worry about loft, dont worry about launch angle, just hit for contact. Well we developed into a ground ball hitting club and got slaughtered for it. 3rd in MLB in GB% and DEAD LAST in FB%.. Cant happen again.

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Rest is so overrated, these guys literally stand around a field or sit in a dugout for 99% of the game. I get it for pitchers to an extent, but for position players makes no sense to me. You want to give them an off day, put them at DH.

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2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Rest is so overrated, these guys literally stand around a field or sit in a dugout for 99% of the game. I get it for pitchers to an extent, but for position players makes no sense to me. You want to give them an off day, put them at DH.

Add catchers to that and I agree. Also, I’d never sit more than one regular a game if I could (obviously guys could be banged up). If your catcher is out, no one else is sitting. No more “Sunday lineups” please.

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3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

The Astros took advantage of our offensive coaching. They WANT you to hit groundballs, infield defense is their strength and man did they put it on display. Their shifts were impeccable. Menechino told these guys all year to just hit for contact, dont worry about loft, dont worry about launch angle, just hit for contact. Well we developed into a ground ball hitting club and got slaughtered for it. 3rd in MLB in GB% and DEAD LAST in FB%.. Cant happen again.

To a good extent though what they did during the season was effective. They were middle of the pack in strikeouts, 19th in home runs, but 7th in runs scored, 3rd in OBP, 10th in slugging. In the playoffs yes, hitting home runs is historically magnified, so there is work to do, but I don’t know that the answer is obvious. Getting Eloy on track might be the most important part that I can see. My money says that Vaughn, if here, shows substantially more power next year just from experience. I do want to see Robert hitting the ball in the air more, that’s fair.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

To a good extent though what they did during the season was effective. They were middle of the pack in strikeouts, 19th in home runs, but 7th in runs scored, 3rd in OBP, 10th in slugging. In the playoffs yes, hitting home runs is historically magnified, so there is work to do, but I don’t know that the answer is obvious. Getting Eloy on track might be the most important part that I can see. My money says that Vaughn, if here, shows substantially more power next year just from experience. I do want to see Robert hitting the ball in the air more, that’s fair.

I agree that Eloy has to get it turned around for the Sox to reach their potential. I am not quite as optimistic on Vaughn. I believe he starts the year in AAA because Sheets hits lefthanded. Suddenly, he has a ton of competition in rightfield, first base, third base, and even second base from other right-handed hitters like Burger, Cespedes, Romy Gonzalez, Yolbert Sanchez, and by the second half of next year, possibly Jose Rodriguez.  I think he has the highest upside of those guys, but I think he'll have to close some holes, especially against righthanders' sliders, at AAA. 

As far as Robert, he hit .340. I am fine with him sticking pretty close to this approach.

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14 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I agree that Eloy has to get it turned around for the Sox to reach their potential. I am not quite as optimistic on Vaughn. I believe he starts the year in AAA because Sheets hits lefthanded. Suddenly, he has a ton of competition in rightfield, first base, third base, and even second base from other right-handed hitters like Burger, Cespedes, Romy Gonzalez, Yolbert Sanchez, and by the second half of next year, possibly Jose Rodriguez.  I think he has the highest upside of those guys, but I think he'll have to close some holes, especially against righthanders' sliders, at AAA. 

As far as Robert, he hit .340. I am fine with him sticking pretty close to this approach.

The Vaughn I saw was starting to figure things out against right handed pitching in June and July, but broke in August for what I believe was fatigue. IIRC he has a stretch where he was hitting close to .300 against righties for a month or two? There seemed to be a lot to build on there to my eyes.

They definitely do have an overflow of players at those positions though. Until they have another option or an injury happens the current setup would seem to put Vaughn in RF, which isn’t ideal even if he gets spring training there to work. Conforto to RF and Vaughn to the DH spot is one option, but it’s quite a bit more expensive than Sheets at DH. Interested in other options if people have them.

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26 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Add catchers to that and I agree. Also, I’d never sit more than one regular a game if I could (obviously guys could be banged up). If your catcher is out, no one else is sitting. No more “Sunday lineups” please.

You know I was thinking about this and I am fine with Sunday lineups against the lesser teams in the league, but how about dancing with who brung ya when playing the playoff caliber teams, even in the regular season?

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37 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

The Astros took advantage of our offensive coaching. They WANT you to hit groundballs, infield defense is their strength and man did they put it on display. Their shifts were impeccable. Menechino told these guys all year to just hit for contact, dont worry about loft, dont worry about launch angle, just hit for contact. Well we developed into a ground ball hitting club and got slaughtered for it. 3rd in MLB in GB% and DEAD LAST in FB%.. Cant happen again.

Do we actually know this? No snark, I’m genuinely asking. I’ve been wondering how much of it was poor approach from the coaching staff and how much was poor execution from the players. 

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4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Fixed. I believe this season proved that everyone here is better than a hall of fame level manager, anyone in the front office, and especially everyone who owns a piece of the team. It’s incredibly easy to assemble all star level talent at every position, manager player health, in game strategy, we all know when to pull pitchers and when to leave them in. In fact it’s so easy I think baseball requires teams to screw it up simply to create fan interest. 
 

And that’s what makes this place so much fun. :gosoxretro::cheers

Come on—I’d go to war with a Soxtalk-crowdsourced team over the Sox any day. By that I mean the San Diego Padres plus Trevor Bauer

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8 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Do we actually know this? No snark, I’m genuinely asking. I’ve been wondering how much of it was poor approach from the coaching staff and how much was poor execution from the players. 

Yes with this quote, fuck home runs when the BABIP for the team was through the roof.

He is similar to the Don Cooper theory of sacrificing speed for location and movement...although maybe Cooper was right.

 

 

 

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