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33 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

I think Rodon will be okay, he just faded down the stretch due to hitting an innings limit, people expecting him to throw 160 innings with zero issues after last year are dumb, like really

I mean, if it’s anything more than fatigue, that’s a problem. Rodon’s shoulder doesn’t inspire confidence.

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Conforto is an absolute MUST. Buy low on him after a down year. 

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2 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

trade Eloy, Abreu, Kimbrel, (maybe even *gasp* Hendricks) for prospects and a 2B or RF. Move Moncada to second or RF and bring up Burger. Stick Vaughn in left, Sheets at first, and rock and roll. Time to retool, it doesn't work

IOW go back into the tank.

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Face it. The Rebuild has taken a hit. Kopech is nowhere near being a major league pitcher and Eloy took a step backwards. This team got exposed big time. If there had  been a full season in 2020, that club never would have made the playoffs. This series was an absolute joke. It's useless to say big changes need to be made, because they won't be made. LaRussa is now 2-6 in the playoffs as Sox manager. 

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Demote SS2k5 and Balta to global moderators, strip Tony's moderating abilities completely, give Kyyle a promotion, unban Parkman

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Here’s the fundamental issue for starters. Assume no major surprises among the Arb offers. The White Sox’s payroll counting Kimbrel is somewhere just over $150 million. If they offer Rodon a QO and he accepts, which is a solid possibility (I would if I were him), their payroll while treading water is over $170 million. Now I’m not going to say there’s a limit, but if you think they’re going to make a major signing after that and push up to nearly $200 million, I would be surprised and I think we all would. 

If Rodon doesn’t accept, they have money to spend, but would probably want some pitching depth at least, and their rotation would potentially take a step back next year. That part though will take care of itself.

The big problem is you have to make a decision on Kimbrel within the first 10 days after the World Series and it is hard to imagine they can be confident in trading him until we know what will happen with a labor agreement. So with his struggles this year, and a big salary, his option is the problem. Pick that up, and if he winds up harder to move than people think, then that might shut down the rest of the offseason.

Personally I let Kimbrel walk and decline that option. That’s the first big step.

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1 minute ago, FoxForce2 said:

IOW go back into the tank.

Depends what you aquire. I intend to get faster, better fundamentals, baserunning, and smarter with MLB talent that fills needs next season. A few prospects on the side is nice, but not the goal. I would come put of this with a complete well balanced young outfield. But you have to give to get, and everyone is not always happy about the changes. I get it.

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1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Watch Bulls and Michigan?

For me it's Boomer! Sooner!, the NFL playoffs (the only time I'm interested in the NFL) and the Hot Stove League.

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17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, if it’s anything more than fatigue, that’s a problem. Rodon’s shoulder doesn’t inspire confidence.

He’s pretty much back to square 1 on another    minimum deal for a year. Maybe a team option year 2 if more money is paid.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Personally I let Kimbrel walk and decline that option. That’s the first big step.

Yup. Time for Rick to eat crow.

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8 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Demote SS2k5 and Balta to global moderators, strip Tony's moderating abilities completely, give Kyyle a promotion, unban Parkman

Honestly Ron, shut the fuck up with trying to backseat mod.

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4 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

He’s pretty much back to square 1 on another    minimum deal for a year. Maybe a team option year 2 if more money is paid.

Minimum deal? Not a chance. Dude put up 4.9 fWAR this year. Hes getting qualifying offer like money from someone. The question is whether he might decline it and think they could get a better deal somewhere else.  No one will give him a giant 5 year deal after the last couple months, but you’d be crazy to turn him down on a 1 year $15 million deal if you had the money to spend and he can pass a physical.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Here’s the fundamental issue for starters. Assume no major surprises among the Arb offers. The White Sox’s payroll counting Kimbrel is somewhere just over $150 million. If they offer Rodon a QO and he accepts, which is a solid possibility (I would if I were him), their payroll while treading water is over $170 million. Now I’m not going to say there’s a limit, but if you think they’re going to make a major signing after that and push up to nearly $200 million, I would be surprised and I think we all would. 

If Rodon doesn’t accept, they have money to spend, but would probably want some pitching depth at least, and their rotation would potentially take a step back next year. That part though will take care of itself.

The big problem is you have to make a decision on Kimbrel within the first 10 days after the World Series and it is hard to imagine they can be confident in trading him until we know what will happen with a labor agreement. So with his struggles this year, and a big salary, his option is the problem. Pick that up, and if he winds up harder to move than people think, then that might shut down the rest of the offseason.

Personally I let Kimbrel walk and decline that option. That’s the first big step.

Yep. I don't tender Carlos either.  And looking at our arbitration candidates and projected salaries, you could really easily convince me that Lucas (and maybe new Reynaldo) are the only ones you tender as you can literally not count on any of the others. I love Adam but he has not proven he can stay healthy and I don't want him to be used as an excuse not to do something better.

 

White Sox (7)

  • Evan Marshall – $2.3MM
  • Brian Goodwin – $1.7MM
  • Lucas Giolito – $7.9MM
  • Adam Engel – $2.2MM
  • Reynaldo Lopez – $2.8MM
  • Jace Fry – $1.0MM
  • Jimmy Cordero – $1.2MM

 

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1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

First moves:

Pick up Kimbrel's option; promptly trade him

Decline Cesar's option

QO to Rodon

Sign Marcus Semien for 2B

 

All of this 

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8 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

He’s pretty much back to square 1 on another    minimum deal for a year. Maybe a team option year 2 if more money is paid.

That's what I see. He does have the AS naming and Boras going for him - but I don't see anyone going beyond the 2nd year option on his shoulder. alone.
Geez I hate the Tomahawk chop/chant at Atlanta, Fine for FSU and CFB - but this is baseball damnit.

Edited by FoxForce2
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1 minute ago, Heads22 said:

Yep. I don't tender Carlos either.  And looking at our arbitration candidates and projected salaries, you could really easily convince me that Lucas (and maybe new Reynaldo) are the only ones you tender as you can literally not count on any of the others. I love Adam but he has not proven he can stay healthy and I don't want him to be used as an excuse not to do something better.

 

White Sox (7)

  • Evan Marshall – $2.3MM
  • Brian Goodwin – $1.7MM
  • Lucas Giolito – $7.9MM
  • Adam Engel – $2.2MM
  • Reynaldo Lopez – $2.8MM
  • Jace Fry – $1.0MM
  • Jimmy Cordero – $1.2MM

 

Yeah but Lopez and Gio are the expensive ones. They’re the ones I counted in saying they’re in the $150 range.

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9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Here’s the fundamental issue for starters. Assume no major surprises among the Arb offers. The White Sox’s payroll counting Kimbrel is somewhere just over $150 million. If they offer Rodon a QO and he accepts, which is a solid possibility (I would if I were him), their payroll while treading water is over $170 million. Now I’m not going to say there’s a limit, but if you think they’re going to make a major signing after that and push up to nearly $200 million, I would be surprised and I think we all would. 

If Rodon doesn’t accept, they have money to spend, but would probably want some pitching depth at least, and their rotation would potentially take a step back next year. That part though will take care of itself.

The big problem is you have to make a decision on Kimbrel within the first 10 days after the World Series and it is hard to imagine they can be confident in trading him until we know what will happen with a labor agreement. So with his struggles this year, and a big salary, his option is the problem. Pick that up, and if he winds up harder to move than people think, then that might shut down the rest of the offseason.

Personally I let Kimbrel walk and decline that option. That’s the first big step.

If they are confident in being aggressive this offseason and making key additions, I’m fine them not picking up the Kimbrel option. You made a very bad trade…eat it. Move on. You can’t compound that error by having Kimbrel cost you a possible lineup addition because you don’t want the trade to look worse. 

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5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Minimum deal? Not a chance. Dude put up 4.9 fWAR this year. Hes getting qualifying offer like money from someone. The question is whether he might decline it and think they could get a better deal somewhere else.  No one will give him a giant 5 year deal after the last couple months, but you’d be crazy to turn him down on a 1 year $15 million deal if you had the money to spend and he can pass a physical.

FaIr enough. Right word should be ‘minimal’. But I do believe there would be qualifiers on how much is guaranteed. There will be a team option.

Edited by Chick Mercedes

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3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Honestly Ron, shut the fuck up with trying to backseat mod.

chris-jericho-wwe.gif

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Kopech and Vaughn are no longer untouchable, especially if the Sox get an Ace starting pitcher in return for a package that includes them.

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Minimum deal? Not a chance. Dude put up 4.9 fWAR this year. Hes getting qualifying offer like money from someone. The question is whether he might decline it and think they could get a better deal somewhere else.  No one will give him a giant 5 year deal after the last couple months, but you’d be crazy to turn him down on a 1 year $15 million deal if you had the money to spend and he can pass a physical.

I agree. I think somebody will roll the dice on him. Hell, look at the contract Eovaldi got. 

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Let’s trade Kimbrel to the Cubs for Chris Clarke.

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7 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Yup. Time for Rick to eat crow.

He needed to get kicked in the teeth for not learning his lesson the first time. He’s done some good things, but you don’t go all in on this particular team at this particular moment. If he was a better GM with a better grasp on his team  would have recognized this was il-timed. So good, be glad it only costed Madrigal at this point. Rick might actually have his tail between his legs this time instead of making another disingenuous joke about being a jackass.

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3 minutes ago, Tony said:

If they are confident in being aggressive this offseason and making key additions, I’m fine them not picking up the Kimbrel option. You made a very bad trade…eat it. Move on. You can’t compound that error by having Kimbrel cost you a possible lineup addition because you don’t want the trade to look worse. 

The only angle that would work on picking up Kimbrel's option would be eating $7-8 mil in a trade and getting 1-2 very good prospects in the deal. But I don't know that even works. Not many American League teams are going to be interested and then there is the MLB-Players negotiations and you're still eating $7-8 mil for prospects.

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