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Offseason Thread

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Just now, FoxForce2 said:

The only angle that would work on picking up Kimbrel's option would be eating $7-8 mil in a trade and getting 1-2 very good prospects in the deal. But I don't know that even works. Not many American League teams are going to be interested and then there is the MLB-Players negotiations and you're still eating $7-8 mil for prospects.

And the White Sox eating money to get a player return…seems less likely than LaRussa being removed.

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4 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

Semien, Semien and Semien. 

Sacks packed with Semien.

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2 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

getting 1-2 very good prospects in the deal.

Good luck with that one.

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1 minute ago, flavum said:

Sacks packed with Semien.

Why did the sperm cross the road?

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Their record against winning teams in 2021 says otherwise. They weren’t even close to .500 against playoff teams. 
 

Just coming back and doing it again next year seems like a mistake and asking for more of the same. And sorry, but just because the Sox franchise has had a HORRENDOUS history doesn’t mean I should be happy with just making the playoffs and hoping for the best. 

There's a lot working against the Sox in this regard.  

Fact is, playing in the Central, it's rare for them to face premium, elite pitching.  They just don't see it enough during the year and, when they do, they get embarrassed.  The Sox feast on pitchers making mistakes and they see plenty of them as hitters in the AL Central.  In the playoffs, especially, you just aren't going to see many mistakes.  If you do, they often will catch the hitters completely off-guard due to being so far and few between.

This team not only needs roster help, but experience.  It's imperative they focus intently on beating good teams next season.  Be it Tony or someone else, I would demand the team treat games against winning teams as playoff games.  Start to understand the mentality it takes to win against top competition.  Start to improve as hitters by honing in the concentration to such an extent that hitting even elite pitchers becomes an exercise of reaction instead of thought.

Eloy is a fantastic example of this.  Dude is just up there guessing what's coming and sitting on whatever that pitch is.  He's not relying on pitch recognition, he's just guessing.  He's not reacting to what his eyes see, he's simply acting on his forethought.  No hitter who lives on guessing pitches is going to thrive against good-great pitching and no team full of those hitters will win playoff series.

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9 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Why did the sperm cross the road?

Because I put the wrong sock on this morning.

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7 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

There's a lot working against the Sox in this regard.  

Fact is, playing in the Central, it's rare for them to face premium, elite pitching.  They just don't see it enough during the year and, when they do, they get embarrassed.  The Sox feast on pitchers making mistakes and they see plenty of them as hitters in the AL Central.  In the playoffs, especially, you just aren't going to see many mistakes.  If you do, they often will catch the hitters completely off-guard due to being so far and few between.

This team not only needs roster help, but experience.  It's imperative they focus intently on beating good teams next season.  Be it Tony or someone else, I would demand the team treat games against winning teams as playoff games.  Start to understand the mentality it takes to win against top competition.  Start to improve as hitters by honing in the concentration to such an extent that hitting even elite pitchers becomes an exercise of reaction instead of thought.

Eloy is a fantastic example of this.  Dude is just up there guessing what's coming and sitting on whatever that pitch is.  He's not relying on pitch recognition, he's just guessing.  He's not reacting to what his eyes see, he's simply acting on his forethought.  No hitter who lives on guessing pitches is going to thrive against good-great pitching and no team full of those hitters will win playoff series.

Robert made some big strides this year and in the postseason. Leury was an improvement from last year and I think Sheets adjusted as well. However, I agree with you that Eloy was a disappointment and the rest of the team wasn’t that great either.

Edited by maloney.adam
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Just now, maloney.adam said:

Robert made some big strides this year and in the postseason. Leury was an improvement from last year and I think Sheets adjusted as well. However, I agree with you Eloy was a disappointment and the rest of the team wasn’t that great either.

Re: Eloy… it’s kind of hard to miss almost the entire year with an injury and come back without skipping a beat.

He gets slack in my eyes for his struggles down the stretch.

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2 hours ago, soulfly said:

That's great, but the worst teams in baseball don't make the post season.  Yes, in the post season anything can happen.  But it's also when teams get exposed.

Or get hot at the right time. Look at the AL East. Tampa ran through the division all year. Boston was really hot then really cold and limped into the playoffs on the final day. Yankees struggled then got really hot and then died the last week and also limped in. Boston soundly beats NY gets embarrassed 1st game in Tampa and then blows out the Rays in 4.  Many teams are streaky because many players are streaky.  Boston and Houston are now going into a 7 game series. Two teams with very questionable starting pitching but both had very productive offenses which helped their patchwork pitching survive. 

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What would get this done? Great in 2019, solid this year. Not sure about his defense. Does any of Kimbrel, Burger and low level pitching get it done?

Edited by almagest

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We still have a great core, but still have multiple holes to fill.  The first two questions that need to be addressed are Rodon & Kimbrel.  Both will be super expensive to retain, but also create massive holes if not brought back.  And don’t get me wrong, I 100% realize Kimbrel sucked a fat you know what, but I personally think he rebounds next year and without him we have a gaping hole in the setup man spot.  He should still probably be moved, but fixing this bullpen is going to be a real challenge with Heuer gone and both Foster & Marshall busting this year.  Bringing back Tepera is basically a must at this point.  As for Rodon, unless you’re worried his shoulder is going to blow up, I don’t think you have a choice but to extend him a QO and hope for the best.  We need another starter to hedge the risk that Keuchel is likely cooked and Kopech probably can’t handle a full workload.

Beyond those moves and completely rebuilding the bullpen, we have a massive hole at 2B and need to figure out what we’re doing in the OF corners and at DH.  Can we survive an OF defense that contains both Eloy & Vaughn?  Has Sheets shown enough to be given an opportunity at DH to start the season?  Beyond those obvious questions, we need to mix things up with a lineup that is too right-handed and struggles against breaking balls.  I’m honestly not sure what the solution is, but I feel like a shakeup move may be needed but will be hard to execute.  With a payroll quickly rising in cost, I’m definitely concerned that Hahn cuts corners on the offense and commits his resources to our pitching staff.  It’s going to be a shame if we go with another half-assed RF next year.  Either commit to Vaughn there despite the defensive limitations, make a shake-up trade, or go out and sign Conforto.  We can’t follow up Mazara & Eaton with more garbage.

Honestly, we should be able to patch together a AL Central favorite roster together pretty easily IMO, but if we’re serious about getting a ring then Jerry has to open the checkbook quite a bit beyond the $170M target I have in mind and that’s probably unlikely.  If if that’s the case, Hahn is going to have a tough time this offseason with minimal payroll flexibility and a bottom five farm system.  At least we have La Russa in place whose tactical genius is worth an easy five wins.

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3 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Robert made some big strides this year and in the postseason. Leury was an improvement from last year and I think Sheets adjusted as well. However, I agree with you that Eloy was a disappointment and the rest of the team wasn’t that great either.

Fwiw, Leury will be a free agent after the World Series.

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1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Re: Eloy… it’s kind of hard to miss almost the entire year with an injury and come back without skipping a beat.

He gets slack in my eyes for his struggles down the stretch.

He's one of my top 3 favorite players on this team.  He looked like shit the last month of the season and coming back from a torn pec doesn't cause one to swing and miss at sliders 3 feet out of the zone on a consistent basis.  I have genuine concern.....not enough to sell low on him, as some seem to want to do, but I do have concerns that either the league has figured him out or he's just simply stopped trusting his eyes. 

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6 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Re: Eloy… it’s kind of hard to miss almost the entire year with an injury and come back without skipping a beat.

He gets slack in my eyes for his struggles down the stretch.

I forgot to mention that. Your right, he probably never fully recovered from the injury. Tbh, Grandal and Robert probably didn’t either.

Edited by maloney.adam

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3 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

He looked like shit the last month of the season and coming back from a torn pec doesn't cause one to swing and miss at sliders 3 feet out of the zone on a consistent basis.

Just think with the major off time it’s unfair to discount him. What Robert did was truly special. Yaz being an establish veteran who has come back from injury before should also be weighed.

Eloy has a lot of growth left in him and he’ll get better.

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Sox have a lot of pricey older veterans. There is a very, very limited trade market of teams willing to pay Kimbrel's salary. You only sign him if you plan on keeping him. He should improve, now that his innings base has been built, but not worth the huge payroll commitment, IMO.

Player / (10/22 Age) / 2022 Salary / (2023 salary, if applicable)

5-7 Older Players $90M Minimum (+$15M Kimbrel and/or $6M Hernandez)

  • Abreu (35) $19.7M
  • Keuchel (34) $19.5M (2022 includes buyout, otherwise $20.0M 2023)
  • Lynn (35) $18.5M ($18.5M 2023, $18M or $1M buyout 2024)
  • Grandal (33) $18.3M ($18.3M 2023)
  • Hendriks (33) $13.0M ($29M for the final two years)
  • Kimbrel (34) $1.0M (Or $16.0M if they keep him)
  • Hernandez (32) $0.0M (or $6M if 2022 club option picked up)

10 Core Players $18.3M

  • Giolito (28) $7.9M
  • Jimenez (25) $6.5M
  • Robert (25) $6.0M
  • Lopez (28) $2.8M
  • Bummer (29) $2.5M
  • Engel (30) $2.2M
  • Cease (24) $0.6M
  • Sheets (26) $0.6M
  • Kopech (23) $0.6M
  • Crochet (23) $0.6M

Free Agents

  • Rodon ($18.4M QO a possibility)
  • Garcia ($3M-$5M AAV)
  • Marshall ($2.3M - Minor League Deal a possibility)
  • Goodwin (Thanks for helping, no place here)
  • Hamilton (Thanks for the memories)
  • Fry (As in Good-bye)
  • Tepera (Depends on the contract, hope they don't overreact to two months)

Crucial Needs

  • Starting Pitcher (Rodon or external)
  • Starting Right Fielder
  • Starting Second Baseman
  • Reserve Infielder (or Leury)
  • Veteran Quality Defensive Catcher (Grandal splits / DH / 1B)

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1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

Semien would be a no brainer for a team that wants to win

Yes, and a lot of teams want to win.

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1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

Semien would be a no brainer for a team that wants to win

Agree...but if he gets 5+ year offers...he won't be coming to Chicago!  If he would sign a 3 year deal...JR might ante up...maybe?

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2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, and the point is the Sox have a much better chance than 20-25%. The series odds were about 56/44. If you thought there was zero chance this team could win a post season series you should have bet your house on the Astros.

Make the playoffs as many times as you can in a row and that's how you increase your WS odds. Selling off all those pieces is a laughable answer.

Who is that always bet their house and lost like 300 times?

I'm not disagreeing about making the playoffs and anything can happen.  Plus I never said sell everyone off.  I said I would retool slightly like the 04 to 05 team was.  That means getting rid of Eloy to fill two holes, I don't hesitate to do it.

Right now we have more holes that we did last year.  There is no disputing that.

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Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

Free Agents

  • Rodon ($18.4M QO a possibility)
  • Garcia ($3M-$5M AAV)
  • Marshall ($2.3M - Minor League Deal a possibility)
  • Goodwin (Thanks for helping, no place here)
  • Hamilton (Thanks for the memories)
  • Fry (As in Good-bye)
  • Tepera (Depends on the contract, hope they don't overreact to two months)

 

Marshall and Fry are arbitration eligible. So is Goodwin but there's no way they tender him, but I think they'll hang on to the other two.

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1 minute ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

Agree...but if he gets 5+ year offers...he won't be coming to Chicago!  If he would sign a 3 year deal...JR might ante up...maybe?

If someone is going to offer 31 year old middle infielder a 5 year deal they can have him.

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Just now, CentralChamps21 said:

If someone is going to offer 31 year old middle infielder a 5 year deal they can have him.

Agree...I just could see 1 or 2 desperate teams jumping in to that point...but I would love to see him back on the South Side!

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

 

I have a bad feeling that he just winds up untradeable.

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