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Ozzie says intent doesn’t matter with Abreu beanings

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

Bring Joe Cowley back as a beat reporter

And Jay Mariotti.....along with all the hineybirds.

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5 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Remember when Ozzie quit on the team when the season wasn’t even over and they had to have Don Cooper interim manage?  Yeah, he should never manage the Sox again. 

He was going to get fired!  JR told him to take the Marlins job as JR sided with KW in that dispute. 

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3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Where's Rick Renteria these days?

If Sox knew they would bow out in first round again, no reason to not let RR come back. He arguably was just as bad as Tony. Frankly I'd rather have had Cooper run this pitching staff, too. 

Edited by greg775

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I remember Ozzie never retaliating against Tori Hunter after he basically destroyed Jamie Burke at the plate on the collision! We were furious on Soxtalk. Now he’s all about protecting family….

Granted that’s a long time ago, but Ive never forgotten that. 

Edited by Flash Tizzle

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1 minute ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

He was going to get fired!  JR told him to take the Marlins job as JR sided with KW in that dispute. 

you sound like greg. That's what I always said in sticking up for Ozzie. I was buried so badly on this board for my Ozzie love.

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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

you sound like greg. That's what I always said in sticking up for Ozzie. I was buried so badly on this board for my Ozzie love. 

LOL...I love OG!  I am not saying he should be hired right now...but when that feud was burning at its height...no way would I have sided with KW! 

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

If Sox knew they would bow out in first round again, no reason to not let RR come back. He arguably was just as bad as Tony. Frankly I'd rather have had Cooper run this pitching staff, too. 

I disagree on Cooper, he wore out his welcome. As far as Katz, I'm not sure if he is the answer either.

Edited by The Mighty Mite

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4 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I disagree on Cooper, he wore out his welcome. As far as Katz, I'm not sure if he is the answer either.

I'm sick of babying pitchers. No starter deserves a huge contract in the future if all they can give in a big game is three innings. What a joke. The babying of pitchers should reduce their incomes for sure. Who would pay Rodon for going what, 1 2/3 innings? Who would pay any of these guys. What did Keuchel have with the Sox? One good year? Cooper would not baby them! I was reading an interview with Gary Peters or one of the old timers who said his arm hurt all the time. You frickin pitch or you don't.

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14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm sick of babying pitchers. No starter deserves a huge contract in the future if all they can give in a big game is three innings. What a joke. The babying of pitchers should reduce their incomes for sure. Who would pay Rodon for going what, 1 2/3 innings? Who would pay any of these guys. What did Keuchel have with the Sox? One good year? Cooper would not baby them! I was reading an interview with Gary Peters or one of the old timers who said his arm hurt all the time. You frickin pitch or you don't.

Things have really changed, I remember in 1959 Billy Pierce  pitching 16 innings in a game that went 18 innings in Baltimore and ended in a 1-1 tie because of curfew laws. Juan Marichal once went 18 innings in a game he won 1-0. Guys like those 2 and Gibson, Jenkins, Koufax and Drysdale were always throwing complete games and on 3 days rest. Now we get 5 innings from starters and think thats great.

Edited by The Mighty Mite

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20 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Things have really changed, I remember in 1959 Billy Pierce  pitching 16 innings in a game that went 18 innings in Baltimore and ended in a 1-1 tie because of curfew laws. Juan Marichal once went 18 innings in a game he won 1-0. Guys like those 2 and Gibson, Jenkins, Koufax and Drysdale were always throwing complete games and on 3 days rest. Now we get 5 innings from starters and think thats great.

I'm sick of it. Even LaRussa, an old timer, has given into it. Baseball like most companies let the consultants get to the decision makers. This modern philosophy of pitching and trying to score runs has taken over and the game is so damn boring. Good luck to pitchers trying to get in the Hall of Fame in the future. I guess it'll be reserved for closers and the best of the beset home run hitters and that's it. Don't even call them starting pitchers anymore. Third time through the order and most fans want that starter OUT. You face a hitter twice and that's it.

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19 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm sick of it. Even LaRussa, an old timer, has given into it. Baseball like most companies let the consultants get to the decision makers. This modern philosophy of pitching and trying to score runs has taken over and the game is so damn boring. Good luck to pitchers trying to get in the Hall of Fame in the future. I guess it'll be reserved for closers and the best of the beset home run hitters and that's it. Don't even call them starting pitchers anymore. Third time through the order and most fans want that starter OUT. You face a hitter twice and that's it.

We will never see another 300 game winner, Kershaw might have a chance.

Edited by The Mighty Mite

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4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Dead.

Doesn’t stop La Russa.

23 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm sick of it. Even LaRussa, an old timer, has given into it. Baseball like most companies let the consultants get to the decision makers. This modern philosophy of pitching and trying to score runs has taken over and the game is so damn boring. Good luck to pitchers trying to get in the Hall of Fame in the future. I guess it'll be reserved for closers and the best of the beset home run hitters and that's it. Don't even call them starting pitchers anymore. Third time through the order and most fans want that starter OUT. You face a hitter twice and that's it.

Donny, you’re outta your element.

Watch games from decades ago, hitters, pitchers, their bodies, their abilities. All but a few HOFers would be run of the mill starters or bench players today.

Better fundamentals the only advantage from “back in the day” and today.

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I'm sick of babying pitchers. No starter deserves a huge contract in the future if all they can give in a big game is three innings. What a joke. The babying of pitchers should reduce their incomes for sure. Who would pay Rodon for going what, 1 2/3 innings? Who would pay any of these guys. What did Keuchel have with the Sox? One good year? Cooper would not baby them! I was reading an interview with Gary Peters or one of the old timers who said his arm hurt all the time. You frickin pitch or you don't.

Yankees paid Cole $35 mill to pitch 3 innings…so there’s that.

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2 hours ago, Green Line said:

Remember when Ozzie quit on the team when the season wasn’t even over and they had to have Don Cooper interim manage?  Yeah, he should never manage the Sox again.

And I STILL would rather have him than Tony.

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I liked Ozzie, still can’t understand half of what he says, but I like him. He should never be a manager again. But then again TLR shouldn’t be either. 

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I know Abreu hates the elbow guard (especially if you've been hitting without one your whole life) but if I were him, I start practicing hitting with it on in the offseason. This is not going away and he is getting older so the body will not heal itself any faster regardless of how tough he is (and he is one tough s.o.b.)

Edited by SoxAce

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 It seems like a lot of the pitchers were going for Ks instead of pitching to contact.  Maybe the arms started to get tired from pitches instead of innings.

Many starters went at least 6 in the NL postseason.  

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3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Things have really changed, I remember in 1959 Billy Pierce  pitching 16 innings in a game that went 18 innings in Baltimore and ended in a 1-1 tie because of curfew laws. Juan Marichal once went 18 innings in a game he won 1-0. Guys like those 2 and Gibson, Jenkins, Koufax and Drysdale were always throwing complete games and on 3 days rest. Now we get 5 innings from starters and think thats great.

Obviously a different time with different dynamics in the game but still:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spahnwa01.shtml
 

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1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

 It seems like a lot of the pitchers were going for Ks instead of pitching to contact.  Maybe the arms started to get tired from pitches instead of innings.

Many starters went at least 6 in the NL postseason.  

Pitching to contact did not work well for Bummer.

And the NL has a free “get out of trouble” card at the end of their lineup every time.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Pitching to contact did not work well for Bummer.

And the NL has a free “get out of trouble” card at the end of their lineup every time.

Thanks TLR.

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5 hours ago, Green Line said:

Remember when Ozzie quit on the team when the season wasn’t even over and they had to have Don Cooper interim manage?  Yeah, he should never manage the Sox again.

:notworthy

 

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3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Doesn’t stop La Russa.

Donny, you’re outta your element.

Watch games from decades ago, hitters, pitchers, their bodies, their abilities. All but a few HOFers would be run of the mill starters or bench players today.

Better fundamentals the only advantage from “back in the day” and today.

To  go very far at all in trying to compare players from different eras isn't much more than spitballing. An interesting comparison might be that of 1963-1966 Koufax and peak Kershaw (whom Koufax worked with and at least somewhat mentored.) Koufax only had two pitches, granted they were immaculate pitches, but still only two which wouldn't cut it in today's game. But if you were to put SK into a hot tub time machine in 1958 and tub-port him into the year 2010, develop a 3rd and 4th pitch, get him all the advantages of modern medicine and training, 5th day starts etc.  and you'd likely have something like peak Kershaw -with a hotter 4-seam and deeper curve...
and that with a superior talent in big game/high pressure situations. On a point like this I like to refer to Ty Cobb's gapped bat grip - LOL!
And what am I doing going OT on this thread anyway?

"You've heard the one about the guy that could throw a ball through a car-wash and not get the ball wet? Well, Koufax was actually that guy."
Pete Rose (para)

...and no, I'm not Jewish.

 

Edited by FoxForce2

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4 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Things have really changed, I remember in 1959 Billy Pierce  pitching 16 innings in a game that went 18 innings in Baltimore and ended in a 1-1 tie because of curfew laws. Juan Marichal once went 18 innings in a game he won 1-0. Guys like those 2 and Gibson, Jenkins, Koufax and Drysdale were always throwing complete games and on 3 days rest. Now we get 5 innings from starters and think thats great.

How much would you need to pay Wilbur Wood in today's game?  I pitcher capable of handling both ends of a doubleheader.  Unreal!

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