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KrankinSox

Sox to pick up $16M Kimbrel option, per Nightengale. Then try to trade him.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

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The Sox will be able to trade Kimbrel.  We won’t get back what we invested in him, but I could see a controllable reliever with upside as a potential return.  I think the Phillies make a ton of sense as a potential trade partner and I’d happily take someone like Seranthony Dominguez as the main piece.

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12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

After reading a story about the state of the Sox bullpen next year, the Sox might well need to bring back Kimbrel. 

-Hendriks is back, as is Bummer.

-They are probably losing Kopech to the starting rotation.

-Tepera is a free agent.

-Going to guess that Crochet returns to the pen in an attempt to stretch him out over the season, but its possible they MiLB him to use him as a true starter to stretch him out for at least a portion of the season.

At this stage we probably have 4 relievers we can relatively count on.

-Cross Evan Marshall off of the list for 22.

-Reynaldo Lopez is an arb guy who the team will probably offer, but do they start him  in AAA as a starter, or use him as a long man in the MLB pen?

-Now we are down to Ruiz, Burr, Foster, Fry.

-You have returning injured pitchers in Jimmy Cordero and Jon Stiever.

-Past that?  Jimmy Lambert, who will probably be a AAA starter.  There aren't any big time prospects waiting in the wings here.

 

 

Isn’t Lopez out of options now?

Also, I figured I would share the free agent list if people want to browse options.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2021-22-mlb-free-agents.html

Edited by Bob Sacamano

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22 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Isn’t Lopez out of options now?

Also, I figured I would share the free agent list if people want to browse options.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2021-22-mlb-free-agents.html

If he is, that probably answers the ReyLo question.  They will certainly tender him, and if he has to be on the roster next year, it will most likely be in the pen.

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56 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Cubs got blasted and rightfully so for being short-sighted with Kyle Schwarber.  The Sox won't make that same mistake.  

Huh? 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

After reading a story about the state of the Sox bullpen next year, the Sox might well need to bring back Kimbrel. 

-Hendriks is back, as is Bummer.

-They are probably losing Kopech to the starting rotation.

-Tepera is a free agent.

-Going to guess that Crochet returns to the pen in an attempt to stretch him out over the season, but its possible they MiLB him to use him as a true starter to stretch him out for at least a portion of the season.

At this stage we probably have 4 relievers we can relatively count on.

-Cross Evan Marshall off of the list for 22.

-Reynaldo Lopez is an arb guy who the team will probably offer, but do they start him  in AAA as a starter, or use him as a long man in the MLB pen?

-Now we are down to Ruiz, Burr, Foster, Fry.

-You have returning injured pitchers in Jimmy Cordero and Jon Stiever.

-Past that?  Jimmy Lambert, who will probably be a AAA starter.  There aren't any big time prospects waiting in the wings here.

 

 

Agreed that we're going to be down relievers and will need to replace that production somewhere, but wouldn't it make more sense to move Kimbrel's $16M and use it to sign more guys like Tepera at reduced cost?

Have to imagine we can get a replacement to what Kimbrel actually did for us (not what he did on the Cubs or what we HOPE he can) for far less. Expecting him to bounce back at $16M seems like a far greater gamble than signing a couple $5M-$7M guys and getting better production.

With how finicky relievers are year to year, use that money on other pen pieces and get the same production at minimum, and possibly even better production than Kimbrel at a lower premium.

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59 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Cubs got blasted and rightfully so for being short-sighted with Kyle Schwarber.  The Sox won't make that same mistake.  

Can you elaborate?

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18 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Can you elaborate?

The Cubs released Schwarber because they didn't want to pay him $8M.  He went on to have a monster season and they just let him walk out the door for nothing.  It was an incredibly short-sighted decision because they were scared of the money.  If the Sox decline Kimbrel's option and let him walk out the door for nothing they would be making the same stupid mistake the Cubs made.  I don't think they're going to be that short-sighted. 

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9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Cubs released Schwarber because they didn't want to pay him $8M.  He went on to have a monster season and they just let him walk out the door for nothing.  It was an incredibly short-sighted decision because they were scared of the money.  If the Sox decline Kimbrel's option and let him walk out the door for nothing they would be making the same stupid mistake the Cubs made.  I don't think they're going to be that short-sighted. 

Well they've already made an incredibly dumb short-sighted move by trading for Kimbrel.  So it wouldn't exactly be surprising to see the Sox make another dumb short-sighted move, whether that is Kimbrel or another move like trading Vaughn.

I fully expect the Sox to exercise Kimbrel's option and trade him for something mildly useful, which is is better than letting him walk for $1M assuming, they don't also have to eat money in the process.  But not sure the Sox deserve benefit of the doubt on this one, and that is coming from a generally a pretty positive fan when it comes to Hahn's moves. 

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26 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Cubs released Schwarber because they didn't want to pay him $8M.  He went on to have a monster season and they just let him walk out the door for nothing.  It was an incredibly short-sighted decision because they were scared of the money.  If the Sox decline Kimbrel's option and let him walk out the door for nothing they would be making the same stupid mistake the Cubs made.  I don't think they're going to be that short-sighted. 

First off, it's $16 million. Secondly, they have a closer. Thirdly, unlike the Cubs, they can re-direct that money elsewhere. The Cubs were dumping salary. Hopefully, the White Sox are not.

I am not a Kimbrel hater. I liked that they acquired him. I didn't like what they paid, and I always was convinced they weren't going to keep him around for 2022. I assumed he would be decent enough to get something. But now, if I am a team looking for a closer, I am not giving up a decent package and paying the freight. I will wait until April or May and see how he's doing, and see how desperate KW and RH are about their over $30 million 8th and 9th innings. I can only remember a couple of easy innings he had in a White Sox uniform.

Edited by Dick Allen
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My biggest fear is there will be no offers that come close to what the sox want in return and we end up with Kimbrel for another year, instead of signing a quality RF with the money they could have saved if they let Kimbrel walk.  I liked Madrigal, thought Cody had promise just couldn't locate the plate in high leverage situations and at the time thought the Kimbrel trade was going to put us over the top much like when the Cubs traded for Chapman.  It didn't happen, so they should have ate the 1 million buyout and cut bait with Kimbrel.  Not all trades work so admit when your wrong, and move on instead of trying to get something for Kimbrel which IMO won't amount to much.

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20 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

My biggest fear is there will be no offers that come close to what the sox want in return and we end up with Kimbrel for another year, instead of signing a quality RF with the money they could have saved if they let Kimbrel walk.  I liked Madrigal, thought Cody had promise just couldn't locate the plate in high leverage situations and at the time thought the Kimbrel trade was going to put us over the top much like when the Cubs traded for Chapman.  It didn't happen, so they should have ate the 1 million buyout and cut bait with Kimbrel.  Not all trades work so admit when your wrong, and move on instead of trying to get something for Kimbrel which IMO won't amount to much.

You sure about that?

Accidentally posted duplicate posts above. Lol

Edited by maloney.adam

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I mean, GM's do stupid things, but that still seems like relying on other GMs to be stupid. But hey, as I said, good luck.

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, GM's do stupid things, but that still seems like relying on other GMs to be stupid. But hey, as I said, good luck.

Yeah there might be some GM that shrugs off his struggles with the Sox and thinks he can be good closer. I just wouldn’t expect a high return, especially if we don’t eat any salary. 

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5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah there might be some GM that shrugs off his struggles with the Sox and thinks he can be good closer. I just wouldn’t expect a high return, especially if we don’t eat any salary. 

Like a trade with the Phillies for Bryce Harper. Lol

Edited by maloney.adam

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4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah there might be some GM that shrugs off his struggles with the Sox and thinks he can be good closer. I just wouldn’t expect a high return, especially if we don’t eat any salary. 

So if we're not expected to get a high return as I would imagine and we might possibly have to eat salary which would likely be more than the 1 mil buyout, wouldn't it have been  cost effective if we ate the 1 mil and said bye bye?

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23 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

So if we're not expected to get a high return as I would imagine and we might possibly have to eat salary which would likely be more than the 1 mil buyout, wouldn't it have been  cost effective if we ate the 1 mil and said bye bye?

Ideally, what we are trading for provides value greater than the $16 mil (or whatever we have to eat, if anything). 

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14 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Ideally, what we are trading for provides value greater than the $16 mil (or whatever we have to eat, if anything). 

At this point I think a lot of us are skeptical, but fine no choice to wait until March or whenever they're able to actually get trades done and see if anything comes back. My prediction is still he's on the White Sox in June if his option is picked up.

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46 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Like a trade with the Phillies for Bryce Harper. Lol

I do wonder if they want to get out of that deal after missing the postseason for the last three years and finishing right around .500. They're a stars and scrubs team like the Sox were pre-2016, with a $180m payroll. Braves are likely legit for a few years at least, and one wild card is going to be locked up by a 100 win team apparently.

It's not gonna happen (full no trade clause too), but man would Harper be a perfect fit. He had to tell the Sox he was flat out not interested in coming here, otherwise I can't understand why he wasn't top priority over Machado.

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1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

You sure about that?

Accidentally posted duplicate posts above. Lol

I said this back on page four and was told I do not know how baseball works.  I still stand by the idea that the framework was in place at the deadline and conversations were held.

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3 minutes ago, almagest said:

I do wonder if they want to get out of that deal after missing the postseason for the last three years and finishing right around .500. They're a stars and scrubs team like the Sox were pre-2016, with a $180m payroll. Braves are likely legit for a few years at least, and one wild card is going to be locked up by a 100 win team apparently.

It's not gonna happen (full no trade clause too), but man would Harper be a perfect fit. He had to tell the Sox he was flat out not interested in coming here, otherwise I can't understand why he wasn't top priority over Machado.

Harper himself said the White Sox pitch to him was surprisingly appealing and they were actually a really strong option for him.

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So here's the thing with teams like the Phillies...Assume for a moment they pick up Odubel Herrera's option which they may or may not do, both Spotrac and Baseball-Reference would put them in the range of $190 million for 2022 payroll right now.

When MLB's owners have already proposed dropping the luxury tax to $180 million (Obviously this wasn't happening in that proposal, but it shows that there is some potential risk here) - why would they take on Kimbrel's contract without knowing the CBA Structure? If the cap was hardened or lowered, that could readily push them into tax or "over the cap" territory, or so close to it that it limits their ability to do anything else, depending on what the final state looks like. You can apply that same reasoning to the Yankees, Dodgers, etc. - why would you take that contract on even for 1 year without knowing how much it will actually cost?

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3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Speculative article mentioning Profar or Kim in a return for Kimbrel.

https://www.eastvillagetimes.com/a-trade-with-white-sox-for-kimbrel-makes-sense-for-padres/

They also offer up Wil Myers in that article. That's a "our trash for your second All-Star closer that you could just decline an option on." If I have to take back Myers, I want good prospect back.

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I'd rather not deal with the Padres organization again.. or at least till Preller is gone.

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