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South Side Hit Men

Rick Hahn 2021 End of Season Press Conference

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Just now, A-Train to 35th said:

Definitely NOT, sorry.

There seems to be a consensus here that players do not want to play for him. I’m not certain that’s correct. 
 

I wonder if any fan base is ever happy with their manager or ownership. I’m worn out of being unhappy with our managers. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Lots of people dislike the Manager on this site after practically every game regardless of who the manager is, but every manager on every team makes decision's that the fan base disagrees with.

It's part of being a fan, but it get's taken up a notch on this site with a lot of hate.  Of course we would like to see the same 9 players go out day after day without rest, but it's not sustainable. 

Agreed. Minor point, a segment of posters here like playing matchups, so they want line ups de jour.

I prefer multiple starters resting on the same day instead of six different lineups each week with one starter resting each day of the week. 

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17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Agreed. Minor point, a segment of posters here like playing matchups, so they want line ups de jour.

I prefer multiple starters resting on the same day instead of six different lineups each week with one starter resting each day of the week. 

You should rest the starters against whatever pitcher is their worst matchup that week. That might be six different guys resting six different days one week, it might be all six resting the same day next week.

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Just now, CentralChamps21 said:

You should rest the starters against whatever pitcher is their worst matchup that week. That might be six different guys resting six different days one week, it might be all six resting the same day next week.

Balanced against no chance to gel with a different player next to you each day. 

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1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Balanced against no chance to gel with a different player next to you each day. 

A baseball season is 162 games. Resting on a different day of the week than your double play combo mate means you only get 110 games together rather than 136. I think they'll manage. Plus you get to gel with someone other than your regular partner which might come in handy.

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14 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

A baseball season is 162 games. Resting on a different day of the week than your double play combo mate means you only get 110 games together rather than 136. I think they'll manage. Plus you get to gel with someone other than your regular partner which might come in handy.

You just said six different in one week. At three different a week it’s less than 90 scheduled games together. Then toss  in an injury or ten . . .

 

22 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

You should rest the starters against whatever pitcher is their worst matchup that week. That might be six different guys resting six different days one week, it might be all six resting the same day next week.

 

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1 minute ago, Texsox said:

You just said six different in one week. At three different a week it’s less than 90 scheduled games together. Then toss  in an injury or ten . . .

 

 

Not every week though. And not every guy. I don't think it matters a whole lot that your starting 3B and RF get different or same days off.

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There's a lot going on in here, but I'm guessing there hasn't been an update regarding a date for the end of season presser? 

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7 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Not every week though. And not every guy. I don't think it matters a whole lot that your starting 3B and RF get different or same days off.

Batting line ups are also affected. Pitchers adjust to whose on deck. You’ll see different pitches. Admittedly it’s a minor issue overall in baseball compared to other team sports.
 

One thing I noticed this year is the team never really peaked. Mostly due to injuries but there wasn’t that two or three week stretch where they really came together and hit a stride. I think they were still trying to find that in October and it hurt them. 

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3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Batting line ups are also affected. Pitchers adjust to whose on deck. You’ll see different pitches. Admittedly it’s a minor issue overall in baseball compared to other team sports.
 

One thing I noticed this year is the team never really peaked. Mostly due to injuries but there wasn’t that two or three week stretch where they really came together and hit a stride. I think they were still trying to find that in October and it hurt them. 

I think you're right. The team never seemed to peak except at the start of the season when it had all the injuries. But I recall other division-winning seasons, and you could see when a team was getting it together. I felt that especially in 1983 and 1993. But not in 2021. Injuries had to have something to do with it, The constant juggling of lineups prevents a team from getting into a real groove. Hopefully in 2022, the team will be relatively healthy. But there are still issues with club, healthy or not.

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3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Batting line ups are also affected. Pitchers adjust to whose on deck. You’ll see different pitches. Admittedly it’s a minor issue overall in baseball compared to other team sports.
 

One thing I noticed this year is the team never really peaked. Mostly due to injuries but there wasn’t that two or three week stretch where they really came together and hit a stride. I think they were still trying to find that in October and it hurt them. 

Plus its all just not fair to the fans (of course why should they matter in all this /sarc). I used to have a buddy growing up. We would play wiffle ball in the back yard. I was a Sox fan; he was a Cards fan. Each of us would mimic the lineup of our team and it we knew our lineups by rote because that's what the teams put out every day. We could have probably recited each other's lineups at the end of the summer. 

Those days are gone.

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41 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I think you're right. The team never seemed to peak except at the start of the season when it had all the injuries. But I recall other division-winning seasons, and you could see when a team was getting it together. I felt that especially in 1983 and 1993. But not in 2021. Injuries had to have something to do with it, The constant juggling of lineups prevents a team from getting into a real groove. Hopefully in 2022, the team will be relatively healthy. But there are still issues with club, healthy or not.

I hope most have the same visceral reaction to “hopefully they will be healthy”. If you’re trying to solve this part of the problem, the GM has to assume they won’t be healthy with this roster and provide real depth, not Nick Williams and Billy Hamilton playing key roles in April after being plucked off the shelf with minor league deals late in the offseason” depth.

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13 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Absolutely it was all Jerry, who I believe was afraid of the fallout if Hahn hired his man Hinch.  Talk about an oxymoron by instead hiring Tony with his two DUI's,  but this is also on Hahn who I believe came to the Hinch conclusion too soon instead of taking the time to interview the field as Balta1701 said earlier.

This is just patently false.

Hahn may have wanted to hire Hinch and might have given Hinch the indication that he was the top candidate (when Hahn was under the impression he would be hiring his manager). Regardless of that, Hahn and Jeremy Haber were ready for a significant undertaking where they interviewed over a dozen candidates whether they were legitimately considering a given candidate or not. The Sox front office wanted to use a manager search not only to find the best candidate, but to interview coaches from around the league to learn about what other teams are doing in the dugout and potentially gain a competitive advantage. Reinsdorf didn't allow this to take place. He was set on LaRussa as soon as LaRussa gave any indication he would come out of retirement (as Nightengale reported from the start). 

The Sox front office blamed Renteria for the team losing the division the lead down the stretch in September and for bungling the pitching plan in game 3 against Oakland. Many of the players were not supportive of Renteria (namely Keuchel and some of the Spanish guys) and Hahn definitely wanted to move on from Renteria. Reinsdorf was very loyal to Renteria and listened to Hahn in that he needed to be replaced but did not support Hahn in doing his job. Reinsdorf looked at hiring LaRussa as both an incredible opportunity (hire a HOF manager who is his friend) and as a way to check Hahn's power which Reinsdorf believed he was overstepping his depths. 

Who knows who Reinsdorf would side with if there were a difference of opinion between Kenny Williams and LaRussa, but Hahn is clearly #3 in baseball operations as far as Reinsdorf is concerned. 

Edited by raBBit
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17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I hope most have the same visceral reaction to “hopefully they will be healthy”. If you’re trying to solve this part of the problem, the GM has to assume they won’t be healthy with this roster and provide real depth, not Nick Williams and Billy Hamilton playing key roles in April after being plucked off the shelf with minor league deals late in the offseason” depth.

Would anyone else consider these two guys combining for 31 plate appearances in April as having key roles? 

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Just now, raBBit said:

Would anyone else consider these two guys combining for 31 plate appearances in April as having key roles? 

Gotta focus on all negatives angles possible.  No team is set up to withstand multiple injuries to key players early in the season with built-in league average players.  Its not possible. 

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8 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Would anyone else consider these two guys combining for 31 plate appearances in April as having key roles? 

Billy Hamilton played every day in games 2-7. He then went on the injured list. He then played in 4 of the next 5 games after returning. So your stat…doesn’t tell that story.

Nick Williams was your number 5 hitter in a division game with Bieber on the mound. Is that not a key role?

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Billy Hamilton played every day in games 2-7. He then went on the injured list. He then played in 4 of the next 5 games after returning. So your stat…doesn’t tell that story.

Nick Williams was your number 5 hitter in a division game with Bieber on the mound. Is that not a key role?

Billy Hamilton started and completed two 9 inning games in the month of April. Yes, he went on the IL and when he returned the starting left fielder, the starting center fielder and half the starting right field platoon were all on the IL. I know you would have had All Stars in Charlotte in the scenario that 75% of the outfield got hurt in the matter of the month, but everybody else is reasonable about things. 

Nick Williams started 3 games in April. That is not a key role. I ripped Nick Williams as the team's MiLB FA outfield depth choice in the offseason and said the team should have gone after Tyler Naquin. I wanted Williams off the roster as soon as he was put on it. All that said, there is no reason to lie about him playing a key role.  There is not a position player on the Sox in 2021 who played in less games than Nick Williams. So I guess every position player who showed up on the lineup card this year played a key role. 

What's funny is it was a huge success story of how the Sox were able to navigate through the significant injuries they experienced at one position group with all the guys they threw out there stepping up to hold the team at bay. The FO got plenty of attention and credit for the moves they pulled off in such a bad position. Brian Goodwin was looked at as a huge pick up as he came in and hit for the Sox when they were at the weakest. When he signed it was talked about how the Sox tried to bring in Goodwin in the offseason. Likely in place of Nick Williams. Goodwin looked at the Sox roster and said something to the effect of (not a direct quote)  "when would I ever get to play" "you guys have guys all over the place." So he opted to go to a bottom feeder where he felt he might get a better chance at playing. Which goes back to the being reasonable thing. I know in your simulations you can just have studs come into spring training 5th or 6th on the depth chart and everything is all hunky dory but that's not how things work in the real world. 

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12 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Billy Hamilton started and completed two 9 inning games in the month of April. Yes, he went on the IL and when he returned the starting left fielder, the starting center fielder and half the starting right field platoon were all on the IL. I know you would have had All Stars in Charlotte in the scenario that 75% of the outfield got hurt in the matter of the month, but everybody else is reasonable about things. 

Nick Williams started 3 games in April. That is not a key role. I ripped Nick Williams as the team's MiLB FA outfield depth choice in the offseason and said the team should have gone after Tyler Naquin. I wanted Williams off the roster as soon as he was put on it. All that said, there is no reason to lie about him playing a key role.  There is not a position player on the Sox in 2021 who played in less games than Nick Williams. So I guess every position player who showed up on the lineup card this year played a key role. 

What's funny is it was a huge success story of how the Sox were able to navigate through the significant injuries they experienced at one position group with all the guys they threw out there stepping up to hold the team at bay. The FO got plenty of attention and credit for the moves they pulled off in such a bad position. Brian Goodwin was looked at as a huge pick up as he came in and hit for the Sox when they were at the weakest. When he signed it was talked about how the Sox tried to bring in Goodwin in the offseason. Likely in place of Nick Williams. Goodwin looked at the Sox roster and said something to the effect of (not a direct quote)  "when would I ever get to play" "you guys have guys all over the place." So he opted to go to a bottom feeder where he felt he might get a better chance at playing. Which goes back to the being reasonable thing. I know in your simulations you can just have studs come into spring training 5th or 6th on the depth chart and everything is all hunky dory but that's not how things work in the real world. 

And just to repeat my part, you cannot look at Eloy Jimenez and Adam Eaton and say “how on earth did these guys all get hurt!” You may now add Engel and Robert to that list. When guys get hurt every year, you can’t say “how did our studs get hurt no one could have expected this!” Same sentiment applied to the starting rotation this year, and look what happened in August and September.

In three years, your excuse is going to be “no one could have predicted these guys being hurt every year and it’s a shame but now too many guys are expensive so we have to rebuild, but I have full confidence in the same people to do it right this time!”

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Trade all bad/maybe injured players.

 

sign all good/not injured players.

 

sign manager with no faults

 

win all the games 

 

easy anyone can do it

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5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Trade all bad/maybe injured players.

 

sign all good/not injured players.

 

sign manager with no faults

 

win all the games 

 

easy anyone can do it

 

caveman.jpg

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34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And just to repeat my part, you cannot look at Eloy Jimenez and Adam Eaton and say “how on earth did these guys all get hurt!” You may now add Engel and Robert to that list. When guys get hurt every year, you can’t say “how did our studs get hurt no one could have expected this!” Same sentiment applied to the starting rotation this year, and look what happened in August and September.

In three years, your excuse is going to be “no one could have predicted these guys being hurt every year and it’s a shame but now too many guys are expensive so we have to rebuild, but I have full confidence in the same people to do it right this time!”

Funny how your Nick Williams serving a key role argument has been completely abandoned.

Eloy, Robert & Engel got injured in a matter of one month. The three players combined for 3 days on the injury list in 2020 when Engel was exposed to someone who tested positive for COVID.

Robert's injury was his second time on the IL since he's been in the states. He missed most of July in 2018.

Engel's injury was (excluding his COVID safety stint) was his first IL stint since 2014 as far as I can see. 

Eloy's injuries have been running into walls. It's a mental shortcoming as opposed to body failures. I think it's reasonable for the Sox to expect him to do what the rest of outfielders do and not challenge inanimate objects to physical battles. 

And funny you turn to ripping the rotation health, can you guess how many teams had less starting pitchers used than the Sox this year? Before you change your faulty argument, I'll let you know. It is zero. 

 

Edited by raBBit

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23 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Trade all bad/maybe injured players.

 

sign all good/not injured players.

 

sign manager with no faults

 

win all the games 

 

easy anyone can do it

Yes but also have all good/not injured players in AAA even if they can have better opportunities elsewhere. Their desires aren't important. 

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36 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And just to repeat my part, you cannot look at Eloy Jimenez and Adam Eaton and say “how on earth did these guys all get hurt!” You may now add Engel and Robert to that list. When guys get hurt every year, you can’t say “how did our studs get hurt no one could have expected this!” Same sentiment applied to the starting rotation this year, and look what happened in August and September.

In three years, your excuse is going to be “no one could have predicted these guys being hurt every year and it’s a shame but now too many guys are expensive so we have to rebuild, but I have full confidence in the same people to do it right this time!”

To be fair, with 40 man rosters as they are, and options as they are, I am pretty sure there is no being able to insulate yourself against your 7th, 8th and 9th OFs playing in a game at the same time.  Unless you are suggesting trading our entire OF, I am not sure what your answer is here that is also realistic.  There is no way to have 9 starting OFs in the system.

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1 hour ago, raBBit said:

This is just patently false.

Hahn may have wanted to hire Hinch and might have given Hinch the indication that he was the top candidate (when Hahn was under the impression he would be hiring his manager). Regardless of that, Hahn and Jeremy Haber were ready for a significant undertaking where they interviewed over a dozen candidates whether they were legitimately considering a given candidate or not. The Sox front office wanted to use a manager search not only to find the best candidate, but to interview coaches from around the league to learn about what other teams are doing in the dugout and potentially gain a competitive advantage. Reinsdorf didn't allow this to take place. He was set on LaRussa as soon as LaRussa gave any indication he would come out of retirement (as Nightengale reported from the start). 

The Sox front office blamed Renteria for the team losing the division the lead down the stretch in September and for bungling the pitching plan in game 3 against Oakland. Many of the players were not supportive of Renteria (namely Keuchel and some of the Spanish guys) and Hahn definitely wanted to move on from Renteria. Reinsdorf was very loyal to Renteria and listened to Hahn in that he needed to be replaced but did not support Hahn in doing his job. Reinsdorf looked at hiring LaRussa as both an incredible opportunity (hire a HOF manager who is his friend) and as a way to check Hahn's power which Reinsdorf believed he was overstepping his depths. 

Who knows who Reinsdorf would side with if there were a difference of opinion between Kenny Williams and LaRussa, but Hahn is clearly #3 in baseball operations as far as Reinsdorf is concerned. 

i agree with so much of what you post here but I disagree with the narrative about Rick Hahn being ham-stringed by JR and KW on decisions about Managers. If he was, what self-respecting GM would hang around for years as a mere figure head and even a patsy?

Let's take it back a bit - Did Hahn have ANY say on hiring Ventura and Renteria ? Did he have any input on whether and when they should be let go?

What did Hahn do about the LaRoach, Eaton, and Sale insubordinations? Did he confront the players or even Ventura to deal with it?   No, waited for KW to handle it.

Did Hahn ever consider Hinch as Manager and openly support a possible decision to hire him? Hinch is a guy who many feel should nave been banned from baseball?  If Hinch was Hahn's choice, I am glad he was overruled.  

Did Hahn have any say on trading Madrigal and Heuer for Kimbrel? Or was that JR's decision to go all in for one year?  The trade was and is indefensible IMO.

I hope JR turns the reins over to his children or another ownership group and they reorganize the Front Office.  Clean house, including Rick Hahn.

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