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Soxsi75

Sometimes You Just Get Beat

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

The entire offseason comes down to how much the Sox believe that, and what they are willing to do to change that. Are they OK just being "a team" in the playoffs or do they want get to a point where they are making 5 straight ALCS? 

The White Sox have won 3 Playoff series since 1917. 

3

 

There was a time during the season when we had the pitching to win the WS.  Rodon and Lynn matched up well with any other 1/2 pair in baseball.  They just wore out with shoulder and knee problems.  The other three guys just weren't up to the task of carrying the load.  Gio and Cease still show signs and the Lopez rebound is encouraging.  Kopech and Crochet for the most part were not very impressive IMO.  I very much like Sheets and Vaughn is very good for how he is being rushed.  It wouldn't bother me if Sheets and Vaughn formed an RF tandem since we already have many options for DH.  Spend the money at 2nd base and in the rotation.  Eloy showed me he can handle LF adequately and Robert will be a future MVP.  We have lots of good pieces but 2nd and RF need to be resolved.  

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4 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

Not sure about the cheating........but Correa did seem to be looking for that 97 MPH chest high fastball from Rodon. Maybe he guessed right?

A reporter asked Correa about that very pitch.  He said Rodon had thrown him two fastballs in that same spot and he decided to sell out on a third.  Said something to the effect of, "if he'd thrown a slider there, I would have practically fallen down over home plate trying make contact".  I took that to mean that the slider was SUCH an obvious pitch in that situation that Correa, and apparently Yaz/Los, thought the fastball was the play.

 

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Astros played a helluva series, no doubt, but a lot of their success was due to our own shortcomings, imo.

Sox played scared.  Pitched scared. Coached scared. Hit scared. Ran scared. They completely folded under the pressure of the situation and never once seemed to strut around with an edge over Houston.

Houston had a very workmanlike approach to the series, likely due to their vast postseason experience.  They knew to attack the zone.  They knew to take patient ABs,  They shifted the defense at the right times.  They ran at the right times.  They didn't turn over on outside pitches consistently.  They never came across as frazzled when something didn't go their way.  It was a yeoman's effort that the Sox need to learn to duplicate in the future.

IMO, that needs to start early next season, every time we play a good team.  They need to treat every one of those series like it's a playoff series.  

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We couldn't hit off Lance McCullers

All four of our starting pitchers fell apart at some point.

Our bullpen sucked game 2 and wasn't handled well at all. Credit to Astros hitters but still 

Few if any clutch hits in games 1,2,4.

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1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Astros played a helluva series, no doubt, but a lot of their success was due to our own shortcomings, imo.

Sox played scared.  Pitched scared. Coached scared. Hit scared. Ran scared. They completely folded under the pressure of the situation and never once seemed to strut around with an edge over Houston.

Houston had a very workmanlike approach to the series, likely due to their vast postseason experience.  They knew to attack the zone.  They knew to take patient ABs,  They shifted the defense at the right times.  They ran at the right times.  They didn't turn over on outside pitches consistently.  They never came across as frazzled when something didn't go their way.  It was a yeoman's effort that the Sox need to learn to duplicate in the future.

IMO, that needs to start early next season, every time we play a good team.  They need to treat every one of those series like it's a playoff series.  

There is no more overused phrase by fans than "scared".  Getting your ass kicked doesn't make you scared.

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3 hours ago, poppysox said:

 It wouldn't bother me if Sheets and Vaughn formed an RF tandem since we already have many options for DH.  Spend the money at 2nd base and in the rotation.  Eloy showed me he can handle LF adequately and Robert will be a future MVP.  We have lots of good pieces but 2nd and RF need to be resolved.  

 

Vaughn hit .235 and LaRussa kept him out of the lineup against good RH pitching.

Neither Sheets nor Vaughn are fast enough to be an everyday outfielder. They could form a DH platoon, if the team could afford a roster spot for two DH's. 

Sox need a RF, preferably one who hits RH pitching in order to balance the line-up.  They also need a backup catcher, a second basemen, and a couple of starting pitchers.   That is too big of a list for Rick Hahn.

 

Edited by tray

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13 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no more overused phrase by fans than "scared".  Getting your ass kicked doesn't make you scared.

Timid?  Tentative?  Would those work better for you, sir?

They got their asses kicked BECAUSE they played timidly.  The lights were too bright for this team.

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1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Timid?  Tentative?  Would those work better for you, sir?

They got their asses kicked BECAUSE they played timidly.  The lights were too bright for this team.

They looked bad because the Astros were playing 4D chess while Tony ate checkers. 

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 Do not trade with the Cubs at the deadline. They are bad luck. Bryant SF, Rizzo NYY, and Kimbrel CWS all led their teams out of the playoffs.  

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Sometimes you get beat and sometimes you get sodomized. I guess the early start times were a good thing in the end, less people saw it.

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This was the worst Sox post-season appearance since 1983 when they lost three straight to Baltimore and were outscored 17-1. Even the 1919 Black Sox played better than this.

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20 hours ago, tray said:

 

Vaughn hit .235 and LaRussa kept him out of the lineup against good RH pitching.

Neither Sheets nor Vaughn are fast enough to be an everyday outfielder. They could form a DH platoon, if the team could afford a roster spot for two DH's. 

Sox need a RF, preferably one who hits RH pitching in order to balance the line-up.  They also need a backup catcher, a second basemen, and a couple of starting pitchers.   That is too big of a list for Rick Hahn.

 

You also shouldn't ruin Vaughn's early career by only playing 30-35% of the time and not letting him get over the hump against RHP...it would be incredibly short-sighted thinking if you believed so much in his talent to draft him that high.

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20 hours ago, tray said:

 

Vaughn hit .235 and LaRussa kept him out of the lineup against good RH pitching.

Neither Sheets nor Vaughn are fast enough to be an everyday outfielder. They could form a DH platoon, if the team could afford a roster spot for two DH's. 

Sox need a RF, preferably one who hits RH pitching in order to balance the line-up.  They also need a backup catcher, a second basemen, and a couple of starting pitchers.   That is too big of a list for Rick Hahn.

 

RF should be a priority. Romy can get a shot at 2B. 

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On 10/14/2021 at 7:49 PM, southsider2k5 said:

There is no more overused phrase by fans than "scared".  Getting your ass kicked doesn't make you scared.

I don't know about 'scared', but the Sox frequently looked either intimidated or resigned to an imagined negative inevitable throughout the series. Almost as if the batters didn't think they belonged there.

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10 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

They looked bad because the Astros were playing 4D chess while Tony ate checkers. 

You're underestimating the depth of checkers.

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41 minutes ago, Dan Pasqua said:

Yeah it's a good thing we let the disAstros beat us so we wouldn't suffer 4.5hours of Joe Buck

I will add I think Smoltz is very knowledgeable. But it takes him 50 words to say what should take 10. That wasn't always the case. Probably why there is only 2 of them in the booth instead of 3  

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On 10/14/2021 at 9:45 PM, tray said:

 

Vaughn hit .235 and LaRussa kept him out of the lineup against good RH pitching.

Neither Sheets nor Vaughn are fast enough to be an everyday outfielder. They could form a DH platoon, if the team could afford a roster spot for two DH's. 

Sox need a RF, preferably one who hits RH pitching in order to balance the line-up.  They also need a backup catcher, a second basemen, and a couple of starting pitchers.   That is too big of a list for Rick Hahn.

 

You can 'hide' a fair fielder in left. You can't do that in a RF. The position is more challenging than LF in every respect.

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I honestly enjoyed this season more than any I can remember since 2005(06 was super fun until the swoon).  It ended with massive disappointment but I went to four games this season with and without family, watched an incredible FOD game, met a lot of fun people along the way.  I hope next season they are blessed with health luck and we can see this team take off. 

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11 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

I don't know about 'scared', but the Sox frequently looked either intimidated or resigned to an imagined negative inevitable throughout the series. Almost as if the batters didn't think they belonged there.

That's what it looks like when you are so thoughtfully outmanaged and outplayed.  This isn't little league.  This guys aren't scared. Phrases like scared are pure projection.

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21 hours ago, SCCWS said:

 Do not trade with the Cubs at the deadline. They are bad luck. Bryant SF, Rizzo NYY, and Kimbrel CWS all led their teams out of the playoffs.  

We will be sure to send them back Eloy and Dylan.

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On 10/15/2021 at 9:48 AM, mmmmmbeeer said:

Timid?  Tentative?  Would those work better for you, sir?

They got their asses kicked BECAUSE they played timidly.  The lights were too bright for this team.

We got our asses kicked because Houston is better than us, period. They smacked us around in Houston during the regular season as well. They aren't timid, They played like they had been since late June. People just thought it was because they were preparing for the post season. 

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8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

We will be sure to send them back Eloy and Dylan.

 You have lost some off your fastball. Teams were trading for available Cubs in 2021 to bolster their playoff chances.  Eloy and Cease were not acquired to bolster the White Sox 2017 Playoff chances.  Quintana was acquired to bolster the Cubs playoff chances in 2017. In case you missed it the Cubs fell short .

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I still cant believe that I'm the only person only moderately suspicious that the Astros are cheating still.

All the credit everyone is giving them here, the fact that none of our really good SPs could make it deep into a game before the Astros figured them out, maybe they do deserve the credit. ..

But at 5 LCS in a row and one of the most dominant performances I have ever seen vs the White Sox... I really cant trust that they are legit now considering the players received zero repercussion. Their history simply dictates that I cannot trust that any of this is legitimate. 

 

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3 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I still cant believe that I'm the only person only moderately suspicious that the Astros are cheating still.

All the credit everyone is giving them here, the fact that none of our really good SPs could make it deep into a game before the Astros figured them out, maybe they do deserve the credit. ..

But at 5 LCS in a row and one of the most dominant performances I have ever seen vs the White Sox... I really cant trust that they are legit now considering the players received zero repercussion. Their history simply dictates that I cannot trust that any of this is legitimate. 

There are five players left, and one owner left, from "when they cheated". Everyone else is gone.

  • Lance Lynn dropped off significantly since his knee issues came to light, sadly right after he signed an extension which perhaps should have not happened until the off-season, if at all.
  • Carlos Rodon's arm has also been shot the past few months, and truth be told should not have started if that was the best his current health would allow.
  • Dylan Cease has had issues against good teams all year, all career, and there is nowhere to hide in the playoffs.
  • Lucas Giolito was their best pitcher, and left with a 4-2 lead. He also has sucked in early games, and he should have started Game 1 (both because it was a few hours later, and second he is the Sox Ace, especially when you look at Lynn's current ability with his knee.

Lynn got the nod, because he is Tony's guy, every move the past year has been spending all funds and sacrificing top prospects and high roster restraining contracts to acquire mid-30s guys Tony likes. So we enter Year 3 of the "Multi-Championship Window" with limited resources to plug a hole in RF that's existed since the tanking years, and a hole in 2B that Madrigal (health) and Cesar (performance) failed to close, and a hole in the rotation (Keuchel) because of performance, and Kopech's inning restrictions due to the fact he is working off of a 69 inning base.

Fans need to stop grasping at straws and confront the fact their team wasn't good enough, has not been good enough, and with the same management and roster construction will not be good enough. The 4-3 series win over Boston was the only playoff team the Sox had a winning season series record against this season (Houston 3-8; Milwaukee 1-2; New York 1-5; Tampa Bay 3-3; Overall 11-18 in season, 1-3 postseason). There was no magic switch (either in Tony's brain or with the team) to flip when "games counted" or when "the big six were healthy", despite JR's media hacks instances that there would be. They are what their record says they are.

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