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Soxsi75

Sometimes You Just Get Beat

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Look this isn't easy to say.  But now that emotion has worn off a bit and we try to look at this practically, there is a lot of truth in saying simply the Astros beat us because of how well they played. 

Since we've lost, all I've heard about is all the things WE did wrong. We got nothing from our starters. Nearly all of our main hitters didn't have a single extra base hit. Leury Garcia misplaying a ball in right field allowing two runs to score because we never bothered to get a right fielder, even though we all knew we needed one before the season started. (Adam Eaton doesn't count.) Therefore, Garcia never should have been out there in the first place. And Kimbrel continuing to pitch like the pitcher we acquired instead of the pitcher we thought we were acquiring.  All of these items are true. 

But on the flip side. It was almost unreal how Houston took advantage of every single scoring opportunity afforded them. We walked too many guys. And they all seemed to come back to haunt us. Incredible clutch hitting with men on base, and situational hitting. Many times with two outs. Tucker and Alvarez both had simple grounders through the infield drive in runs in the first two games in Houston. Hitting em where they ain't. Wee Willie Keeler would have been proud. 

The only time Houston wasn't scoring is when our bullpen had a 5 inning stretch where it was lights out in the only Game we won. This probably is what precipitated what Tepera said. But they were still taking advantage of every scoring opportunity afforded them even in the game we won. 

I was probably most excited when Rodon pitched around the leadoff double by Altuve and left him at 3rd by striking out Bregman and Alvarez in the first inning of Game 4. Because this was the only time I could remember the whole series where they didn't take advantage of a scoring opportunity. So I thought, "is this trend changing?" Of course, we all saw it wasn't.

We didn't get the clutch hits. And they always did. I do think their experience and our inexperience had something to do with this. I also will forever disagree with LaRussa treating the last two months like an extended spring training with his resting of players. I felt all along that would haunt us. I don't think a young, inexperienced team can get away with "turning it on when we need to," like this situation was asking us to do. 

But getting back to Houston. They simply couldn't have played any better. If they play like this, they should sweep Boston and also probably their opponent in the World Series. Therefore, I'm not going to watch any further post season games played by Houston because it will piss me off if they don't. That they only played flawlessly against us. 

Edited by Soxsi75
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I disagree. My disagreement is the Sox definitely had the roster, on paper, to make the WS. It would have required a lot of White Sox hitting well, pitching well, fielding OK. Sox played poorly and for me the lasting image is Frank Thomas in studio sadly shaking his head at the rotten series the Sox played.

Sox thought they had it all figured out at the trade deadline when they had 7th, 8th and 9th innings allegedly knocked down with bullpen studs and had 2B fixed with a second baseman with some power. Everybody failed, including Tony who zombielike, just tried his best to have a healthy roster come October.

Sox deserve an A for their full body of work but an F for the postseason and F for roster management.

Edited by greg775
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Good post mortem autopsy, we didnt play up to our potential but have to admit the better team won. I despise Houston but they sure beat us like a drum for the most part. I look for them to go to the WS

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Agreed - the Astros just played really, really well, even though they're a garbage organization for which I will never have any respect.  Wouldn't surprise me to see them win it all this year.  Their offense was on fire and we just couldn't keep them down.

That said, folks should resist the urge to over-read the significance of this series.  I already see a lot of posts suggesting that the Astros somehow definitively proved that they're better than the Sox and that we can't possibly overtake them without a major overhaul.  (Kind of like the offseason posts saying Twins were "the champs" through which all roads to the AL Central crown led...ahem.)  That's really premature.  Look, the Astros will be around next year, but nothing is fixed in this sport and next year we may find that we're the ones with the hot hand.  The Astros couldn't get past the Rays last year, then they lost Springer, and had no Verlander, and Greinke turned into a pumpkin.  How could they logically overtake the Rays this year, especially with the Rays having the #1 seed?  Well, the Rays could only manage one win against a pretty flawed Boston team.  They won't even have to play them.  The point is things change--often rapidly and unexpectedly.  We just need to do the work to improve over the offseason, win the division again, and take our shot next year.  

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Really except for game 3, Houston played a perfect series offensively. Your post, your awe of what they were able to do and the mad props you are giving them for being so great is a testament to this. I also havent seen a team perform that well offensively in quite some time!

So much so that to me it is all frankly suspicious.

Some competitive video games that get littered cheaters make you suspicious of everyone, even if they simply are a really good player. The same thing is happening to me with the Astros. It's almost like the Sox had fresh codes at the beginning of every game, then the Astros figured out the codes and wrecked our starters into oblivion by inning 3. The only time it didnt seem like they had something on us was that 5 inning bullpen stretch... and perhaps Tepera alluded to what he believes may still be happening. 

The Astros want to point to their road OPS as a reason why they dont cheat, how on Gods earth do they expect me to believe that they havent found a way to cheat on the road too?

Fuck the Astros. 5 LCS in a row isnt just because they are good. I think that organization is full of shit and all of them should be banned from baseball. And I have literally no reason to believe theyve stopped cheating because the players received basically zero repercussions.

 

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Sometimes you get beat, but at least give yourself the best chance to win.

Lynn is historically bad at Houston.

Cease has extreme home/road splits.

September should have been spent lining up the rotation to have Giolito and Rodon pitching games 1-2 and Lynn and Cease pitching games 3-4.

The Sox may still very well have lost the series, but at least it would have looked like they were making their best effort.

Also, Hendriks should have been  the first guy in when a pitching change got made with guys on base. You have to keep the lead in the 3rd inning or you don't need a closer in the 9th, and they had Kimbrel even if they did.

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36 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Agreed - the Astros just played really, really well, even though they're a garbage organization for which I will never have any respect.  Wouldn't surprise me to see them win it all this year.  Their offense was on fire and we just couldn't keep them down.

That said, folks should resist the urge to over-read the significance of this series.  I already see a lot of posts suggesting that the Astros somehow definitively proved that they're better than the Sox and that we can't possibly overtake them without a major overhaul.  (Kind of like the offseason posts saying Twins were "the champs" through which all roads to the AL Central crown led...ahem.)  That's really premature.  Look, the Astros will be around next year, but nothing is fixed in this sport and next year we may find that we're the ones with the hot hand.  The Astros couldn't get past the Rays last year, then they lost Springer, and had no Verlander, and Greinke turned into a pumpkin.  How could they logically overtake the Rays this year, especially with the Rays having the #1 seed?  Well, the Rays could only manage one win against a pretty flawed Boston team.  They won't even have to play them.  The point is things change--often rapidly and unexpectedly.  We just need to do the work to improve over the offseason, win the division again, and take our shot next year.  

Very well put!  Thank you!

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10 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Sometimes you get beat, but at least give yourself the best chance to win.

Lynn is historically bad at Houston.

Cease has extreme home/road splits.

September should have been spent lining up the rotation to have Giolito and Rodon pitching games 1-2 and Lynn and Cease pitching games 3-4.

The Sox may still very well have lost the series, but at least it would have looked like they were making their best effort.

Also, Hendriks should have been  the first guy in when a pitching change got made with guys on base. You have to keep the lead in the 3rd inning or you don't need a closer in the 9th, and they had Kimbrel even if they did.

"September should have been spent lining up the rotation to have Giolito and Rodon pitching games 1-2 and Lynn and Cease pitching games 3-4."

I actually posted in a different post on here, (don't remember which one,) saying this is how they should align their rotation as well. 

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25 minutes ago, South Sider said:

Really except for game 3, Houston played a perfect series offensively. Your post, your awe of what they were able to do and the mad props you are giving them for being so great is a testament to this. I also havent seen a team perform that well offensively in quite some time!

So much so that to me it is all frankly suspicious.

Some competitive video games that get littered cheaters make you suspicious of everyone, even if they simply are a really good player. The same thing is happening to me with the Astros. It's almost like the Sox had fresh codes at the beginning of every game, then the Astros figured out the codes and wrecked our starters into oblivion by inning 3. The only time it didnt seem like they had something on us was that 5 inning bullpen stretch... and perhaps Tepera alluded to what he believes may still be happening. 

The Astros want to point to their road OPS as a reason why they dont cheat, how on Gods earth do they expect me to believe that they havent found a way to cheat on the road too?

Fuck the Astros. 5 LCS in a row isnt just because they are good. I think that organization is full of shit and all of them should be banned from baseball. And I have literally no reason to believe theyve stopped cheating because the players received basically zero repercussions.

 

Not sure about the cheating........but Correa did seem to be looking for that 97 MPH chest high fastball from Rodon. Maybe he guessed right?

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in 2005, every single bounce, call and shift went the Sox way. in 2021 the Astros got all of them minus game 3. dems tha breaks. 

Edited by EloyJenkins
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16 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Not sure about the cheating........but Correa did seem to be looking for that 97 MPH chest high fastball from Rodon. Maybe he guessed right?

Maybe, they sure looked like they knew what was coming instead of guessing most of the time. Correa said he would have fallen on his face if it was offspeed but I recall very few Astros looking bad on offspeed... most of the time they just had this uncanny ability to spit on anything close. I think part of the reason we walked so many of them is because worked counts so annoyingly well... again I have not seen a team work counts that well in a long long time. Maybe they just elevated themselves for the playoffs, maybe they fucking cheat. Cant rule either out because of their history.

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25 minutes ago, Soxsi75 said:

Not sure about the cheating........but Correa did seem to be looking for that 97 MPH chest high fastball from Rodon. Maybe he guessed right?

I think Tepera's comments show that the Sox let the Astros get in their heads over the sign stealing scandal.

The Astros scored < 3 runs 38 times this season, 17 of them at home. There was sufficient tape to study on ways to get their hitters out.

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Sometimes the ace of the staff that just beat you gets taken out for the entire series right after your favorite team is eliminated.

I envy the Red Sox.

Edited by hi8is
Maybe voodoo dolls work after all but just take a little while to kick in.

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No team wins in the playoffs when their starting pitching is nonexistent.  Our hitting was atrocious and our defense bad.  Let's face it...the better team won.

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1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Let's face it...the better team won.

Yup. Bet we would have won if we were in the Red Sox position. Them losing McCullers is so huge.

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2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

No team wins in the playoffs when their starting pitching is nonexistent.  Our hitting was atrocious and our defense bad.  Let's face it...the better team won.

The entire offseason comes down to how much the Sox believe that, and what they are willing to do to change that. Are they OK just being "a team" in the playoffs or do they want get to a point where they are making 5 straight ALCS? 

The White Sox have won 3 Playoff series since 1917. 

3

 

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14 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Sometimes the ace of the staff that just beat you gets taken out for the entire series right after your favorite team is eliminated.

I envy the Red Sox.

Unreal.  Talk about your bad luck.  Their staff is shaky behind him...and in a seven game series that will only be magnified.  So Framber, Luis Garcia, ???, ???, Framber again?  Yikes

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7 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Unreal.  Talk about your bad luck.  Their staff is shaky behind him...and in a seven game series that will only be magnified.  So Framber, Luis Garcia, ???, ???, Framber again?  Yikes

Yea horrible luck for us. :(

Next time I need to break out the voodoo dolls a week earlier it seems.

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Sometimes you just suck 

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I know an easy way to cheat. Steve Stone often announces the next pitch. 

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37 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Yea horrible luck for us. :(

Next time I need to break out the voodoo dolls a week earlier it seems.

I feel bad for that strx3000 guy :cool:

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It is very interesting to see how prior to the series, the 2 camps were "the teams are fairly even but the White Sox haven't set themselves up well for this series" and "The White Sox are way more talented and that's going to do the job". 

The first group is somewhere between despondent and flat out angry at how the series went, and now we're getting the "tip your cap the Astros are just better" sentiment that was somehow absent beforehand.

 

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12 minutes ago, wegner said:

I feel bad for that strx3000 guy :cool:

Yea - McCullers blisters must be awful… since that’s what the guys scout buddies said accounted for his departure.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

The entire offseason comes down to how much the Sox believe that, and what they are willing to do to change that. Are they OK just being "a team" in the playoffs or do they want get to a point where they are making 5 straight ALCS? 

The White Sox have won 3 Playoff series since 1917. 

3

 

Yes, and those 3 came in one season. Every other post-season, the Sox lost every series. 

You ask a very good question. What are the Sox willing to do to improve and become a real contender in 2022? Because this team got exposed big time. I know the Astros are a superior club, but the Sox performance was absolutely awful. A great deal needs to be done if the Sox are going to be a real player.

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Some of our Sox did not bring their A game. 

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