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So What Do The Dodgers Do This Off Season To Get To Be As Good As The Braves?

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5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Paul Sullivan has said that  the Dodgers are going to sing Kris Bryant.

Interesting. I wonder what song they will pick.

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5 minutes ago, hi8is said:

“The question should be: What do the Ashoes, Dodgers, Braves, etc have to do in order to compete with us.” -Kenny Williams

LOL - it certainly should be. Too bad it isn't.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Interesting. I wonder what song they will pick.

Somewhere Over The Rainbow

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The playoffs are mostly a crapshoot, yes.  That is why the ideal way to get to a legitimate champion was when there was only a WS with the two pennant winners. Its not like football; it takes a ton of games for the elite to percolate the to the top and the pretenders to filter themselves out. Yet now we bring them back in to the equation for a series or two?

 Yes we do see teams like Houston returning to the playoffs often and having success*. I think in those cases it is because they have been an elite team that has successfully gone thru the grind of regular seasons which allows them to get acclimated to the playoff environment thru experience so they can perform on that stage. If you can’t establish sustainable success your playoffs fortunes are a roll of the dice regardless of your talent.
 

* cheating notwithstanding of course.

Edited by SpringfieldFan
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12 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

WRT

WTG

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2 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

Not relevant. I'm talking about this year and proving that each year, the playoffs are a crapshoot. 

The playoffs are a crapshoot because all of the teams are really good. Look at the AL pennant winner that last 10 years. How many times could you argue that team didn't belong? Maybe the first WS year Royals. Also, the Dodgers won over 100 games and lost HFA against the Braves. Had the Dodgers had HFA like they should have that is probably a different series. 

Edited by SonofaRoache

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1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Thanks for elaborating. I understand your point a little more, but I still think we shouldn’t ignore sustained success in the playoffs from teams like the Dodgers and Astros, even when they get knocked out some years by seemingly inferior teams.

You're right. I agree with you and actually always have. I expressed myself poorly if it seems like I was trying to say something different. But this White Sox team hasn't had the chance to get that sustained success yet. The rebuilding we've done is just the last couple of years bearing fruit. What inspired my original post was how thoroughly barbecued the White Sox were on here for losing a playoff series, to an excellent team mind you, as you stated yourself as being one of the teams who have had sustained success. And yet, even a sustained success team like the Dodgers also lost in the playoffs this year and therefore didn't accomplish any more than we did.  Just like every other team will except one.  But we are on the right track. But all I heard on here was bullshit like, "this organization sucks. We haven't won a playoff series in 16 years." Or, stupid ass things like we need to get rid of Abreu or Jimenez because they're too much alike. Maybe this team will provide that long term success? They're built to with having many of our key players signed for a few years. If we go 79-83 next year, then I'll admit I'm wrong. 

Edited by Soxsi75

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1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said:

Did Turner even play against the Braves? Muncy was out of the entire post-season. A healthy post-peak Kershaw had at least a shot of making a contribution had he been on the roster. Roberts didn't exactly handle Urias and Scherzer very well in this series.
Injuries. And MORE injuries. Even a team as deep as the Dahjahs couldn't suffer the short fused losses of two of the foundational pieces of their lineup.  I don't know that Houston would do any better were they to lose any two (pick 'em) of the heart of their lineup on short notice.
I don't know if the playoffs are a crapshoot - but there sure are a basket full of variables for any team to contend with.
 

Dodgers were clearly not as good offensively without Muncy. Losing Kershaw hurt because it forced them to start guys like Scherzer and Buehler on short rest. Roberts also kept using Urias and Scherzer as relievers and that made the problem even worse.

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1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said:

Any realistic look at the 2021 season has to take into account the collapse of the rest of the Division. Put the Sox into the East or even the West and you have a very different picture. I didn't say the window was closed. I just don't see that we've gotten it open all the way. Old windows can be hard to get sliding up and down when used infrequently. They get stuck.

The Sox aren't responsible for the other teams in their division,  and if they are so awful, the playoffs will be a lay up.

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42 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

The Phillies at least gave the Braves a run. No one in the AL Central gave the Sox a run. The Braves are not the Braves of the Cox years - but they are still head and shoulders above the Sox WRT organizational competence. This WS appearance is at least something like a proof of that.

This is blaming the Sox for sprinting 20 games above .500 and not meandering earlier in the year so they could be “chased” by the Indians and Tigers.

If the Sox weren’t up 9 games in late July, Eddie Rosario wouldn’t be in the braves

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18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The Sox aren't responsible for the other teams in their division,  and if they are so awful, the playoffs will be a lay up.

I never said the Sox were 'so awful'. Where did you see that? I just don't see the point of pumping sunshine when there are organizational corrections to be made.
As of Sep 13: Sox record against teams above .500 - 23-28. 2021 White Sox SOS - 28th in MLB.
 

"We're in the business of deception - not self-deception."
Martin Sheen character in the film The Departed

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14 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I know we are White Sox fans on here, but we are also baseball fans. So since the Dodgers were clearly inferior to the Braves this year getting their asses handed to them in the playoffs, just like our White Sox were lambasted for being so inferior because we lost a playoff series, and I've heard all this talk about all that needs to be changed with this Sox team because we lost a playoff series, what do the Dodgers need to do to get themselves to be on the same level as the Braves?..............

.........oh wait. The Dodgers were 18 games better than the Braves during the season? So they really were better? Well, they lost a playoff series to them. Which proves one thing boys and girls. THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A CRAPSHOOT!!

Now to begin with, I'm not ignorant enough to believe we don't have deficiencies to work on this off season. We don't have a right fielder, (actually we didn't have one before the season and didn't bother to get one,) we don't have a good every day second baseman and Kimbrel was a train wreck. But all I've heard since we lost the series to Houston is all that's wrong with us on here. I've even heard one idiotic comment on here that one of our problems is Abreu and Jimenez are too much alike so we need to get rid of one of them because of that. Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't let this ridiculously ignorant statement go. Maybe the Dodgers should get rid of Justin Turner, Max Muncy and Chris Taylor because they are all proponents of the "launch angle" theory, and therefore too much alike!! ( And yes, I know Muncy hits lefthanded so please, nobody comment on here that Muncy is different from Turner and Taylor being left handed. Because they all have something in common buying into the launch angle theory. ) But hey, they lost in the playoffs with these guys.....so I guess they aren't good enough.

I said in another post on here that only one team will win it all and everyone else will end up a loser. And the fact is that the FIFTH best team in the NL this year won the pennant!!

So let's here it everyone. We're number 5! We're number 5! We're number 5!! Is that a chant heard very often??

I guess my main point on here is the White Sox had a good year and won their division. And they will continue to be a strong team with this nucleus. What I feel proves this is we won 93 games without even being REMOTELY healthy. Do we have some work to do in the off season? Of course, as I stated two paragraphs ago. But to barbecue this team because we lost a playoff series? That's ridiculous. And if you believe we should, then you better to make sure you rip on the Dodgers, Giants, Rays and Brewers, all teams that won more games than we did, and also lost in the playoffs.

Playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls. Pure and simple. If your team wins it, enjoy and celebrate it. If you don't, nowadays it doesn't prove a thing. 

And maybe I'm being a bit sensitive because an analogy I've always liked to use, is your favorite baseball team is like your little brother. You can rip and pick on him all you want but nobody else better do it. So hearing the White Sox get ripped on here so heavily makes me defensive. Even if it is by other Sox fans. 

And guess what? We may shore up all our weaknesses this off season, get back to the playoffs..........and possibly lose again in the playoffs next year. Because winning a championship is never promised and the playoffs are a crapshoot. If you don't believe me, than just ask the Dodgers. 

 

The Dodgers have been World Series contenders for YEARS and will be contenders for the foreseeable future, meanwhile we snuck out 1 playoff win in the last 13 years with a short window due to having the worst developmental minor league system in the game. Your thread belongs in the trash.

Edited by reiks12
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2 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

The Dodgers have been World Series contenders for YEARS and will be contenders for the foreseeable future, meanwhile we snuck out 1 playoff win in the last 13 years. Your thread belongs in the trash.

Hey hey hey…that’s 3 playoff wins in past 13 years thank you!

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36 minutes ago, bmags said:

This is blaming the Sox for sprinting 20 games above .500 and not meandering earlier in the year so they could be “chased” by the Indians and Tigers.

If the Sox weren’t up 9 games in late July, Eddie Rosario wouldn’t be in the braves

I find your logic rather bizarre. White Sox SOS in 2021 -28th in MLB- and you're arguing that this is irrelevant regarding the Sox 93 wins and dominance of the AL Central? 
Good luck with that. 

Edited by FoxForce2

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1 hour ago, Sockin said:

 

This argument is still weak. Boston knows the Rays well and Boston was a top team for a large chunk of this year. They got Sale back and Schwarber at the deadline. The Dodgers beat one 100 win team and then lost to a team that should not have had HFA over them. Atlanta is also a very talented team that was dealing with a ton of injuries. People need to stop making excuses for us getting our butts beat badly. 

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The Sox could have done a lot of things, outside of just letting their talent play, to increase their chances of winning a short playoff series.

The talent is there, they don’t need an overhaul.  They need to play better baseball, and that includes preparation and game plans from our coaching staff. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

The Sox could have done a lot of things, outside of just letting their talent play, to increase their chances of winning a short playoff series.

The talent is there, they don’t need an overhaul.  They need to play better baseball, and that includes preparation and game plans from our coaching staff. 

 

This nails it.
Develop a professional analytics/scouting team and integrate them into game planning/in-situ play --- and we might really have something.
Kinda like the big kids do.

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18 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

This nails it.
Develop a professional analytics/scouting team and integrate them into game planning/in-situ play --- and we might really have something.
Kinda like the big kids do.

Do we think that’s anymore likely to happen than, say, outbidding everyone for Semien or Byrant? 

Also, sustained success implies a consistent run of playoff appearances. It’s a whole other issue of whether we fall flat every year in the 1st round or move forward. Honestly, I can’t even look forward that far when we just made the playoffs, in two straight seasons, for the first time in franchise history. 

We likely have the roster to make the playoffs again, which I’ appreciative for; but I’m worried whether they’re aiming to just win the division….and hope it’s their lucky year….or construct a team to defeat Houston and win a World Series. I think this season (and short postseason) has given us a clear picture of the improvements which need to done for the next step. 


 


 

 

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1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said:

"We're in the business of deception - not self-deception."
Martin Sheen character in the film The Departed

Love the movie / quote.

The bottom line is the Braves outfield was decimated by injuries and their FO acquired Adam Duvall (1.2 Atlanta bWAR), Eddie Rosario (0.5) and Jorge Solar (1.0), and did not overpay for any in terms of prospects or $s.

The White Sox outfield was also decimated by injuries (much of it self-inflected by playing Eloy in LF, and the pathetic signing of the perennially injured Adam Eaton (-0.7)). Hahn acquired Nick Williams (-0.3 bWAR), Jake Lamb (-0.3) and Brian Goodwin (-0.5), and passed on adding anyone good at the deadline. Hahn added a single OFer last year at the deadline (Jarrod Dyson (-0.1)), and crap before it (Nomar Mazara (-0.1)) . Six guys, all Nicky Delmonico level (Rick Hahn’s 2020 Opening Day Right Fielder).

One team’s FO worked hard to reach a World Series, the other pays lip service to the idea to sell tickets.

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17 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I know we are White Sox fans on here, but we are also baseball fans. So since the Dodgers were clearly inferior to the Braves this year getting their asses handed to them in the playoffs, just like our White Sox were lambasted for being so inferior because we lost a playoff series, and I've heard all this talk about all that needs to be changed with this Sox team because we lost a playoff series, what do the Dodgers need to do to get themselves to be on the same level as the Braves?..............

.........oh wait. The Dodgers were 18 games better than the Braves during the season? So they really were better? Well, they lost a playoff series to them. Which proves one thing boys and girls. THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A CRAPSHOOT!!

Now to begin with, I'm not ignorant enough to believe we don't have deficiencies to work on this off season. We don't have a right fielder, (actually we didn't have one before the season and didn't bother to get one,) we don't have a good every day second baseman and Kimbrel was a train wreck. But all I've heard since we lost the series to Houston is all that's wrong with us on here. I've even heard one idiotic comment on here that one of our problems is Abreu and Jimenez are too much alike so we need to get rid of one of them because of that. Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't let this ridiculously ignorant statement go. Maybe the Dodgers should get rid of Justin Turner, Max Muncy and Chris Taylor because they are all proponents of the "launch angle" theory, and therefore too much alike!! ( And yes, I know Muncy hits lefthanded so please, nobody comment on here that Muncy is different from Turner and Taylor being left handed. Because they all have something in common buying into the launch angle theory. ) But hey, they lost in the playoffs with these guys.....so I guess they aren't good enough.

I said in another post on here that only one team will win it all and everyone else will end up a loser. And the fact is that the FIFTH best team in the NL this year won the pennant!!

So let's here it everyone. We're number 5! We're number 5! We're number 5!! Is that a chant heard very often??

I guess my main point on here is the White Sox had a good year and won their division. And they will continue to be a strong team with this nucleus. What I feel proves this is we won 93 games without even being REMOTELY healthy. Do we have some work to do in the off season? Of course, as I stated two paragraphs ago. But to barbecue this team because we lost a playoff series? That's ridiculous. And if you believe we should, then you better to make sure you rip on the Dodgers, Giants, Rays and Brewers, all teams that won more games than we did, and also lost in the playoffs.

Playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls. Pure and simple. If your team wins it, enjoy and celebrate it. If you don't, nowadays it doesn't prove a thing. 

And maybe I'm being a bit sensitive because an analogy I've always liked to use, is your favorite baseball team is like your little brother. You can rip and pick on him all you want but nobody else better do it. So hearing the White Sox get ripped on here so heavily makes me defensive. Even if it is by other Sox fans. 

And guess what? We may shore up all our weaknesses this off season, get back to the playoffs..........and possibly lose again in the playoffs next year. Because winning a championship is never promised and the playoffs are a crapshoot. If you don't believe me, than just ask the Dodgers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone can win a short series and the Braves proved it and I'm happy they did. Now go out and beat the cheaters and it's also payback time for Atlanta and Georgia for losing the All Star Game because of stupid politics.

Edited by The Mighty Mite
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2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Love the movie / quote.

The bottom line is the Braves outfield was decimated by injuries and their FO acquired Adam Duvall (1.2 Atlanta bWAR), Eddie Rosario (0.5) and Jorge Solar (1.0), and did not overpay for any in terms of prospects or $s.

The White Sox outfield was also decimated by injuries (much of it self-inflected by playing Eloy in LF, and the pathetic signing of the perennially injured Adam Eaton (-0.7)). Hahn acquired Nick Williams (-0.3 bWAR), Jake Lamb (-0.3) and Brian Goodwin (-0.5), and passed on adding anyone good at the deadline. Hahn added a single OFer last year at the deadline (Jarrod Dyson (-0.1)), and crap before it (Nomar Mazara (-0.1)) . Six guys, all Nicky Delmonico level (Rick Hahn’s 2020 Opening Day Right Fielder).

One team’s FO worked hard to reach a World Series, the other pays lip service to the idea to sell tickets.

This pretty much reveals the weakness of the Sox Scouting and vetting processes. Something that has been a problem for quite some time. Something I would think would be clearly recognizable as an area to seriously address in terms of method and process. But what do I know?
I was surprised that Hernandez didn't work out at second base. Even without the anomalous high dinger rate, he looked like a sold get. i.e a guy that would lock down the position in the field and be at least a bottom order contributor at the plate. In the field, he wasn't much more than meh - and at the plate well...
 Yolmer S. field play alone might have provided the Sox more WAR than what Cesar's all around play did. I kid, but Hernandez' performance as a Sox is just one more example of failed personnel moves.

Edited by FoxForce2

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Braves were 31-37 against teams better than .500.

Braves won an awful division with less than 90 wins.

It's IMPOSSIBLE for this Sox team to make or win a World Series. The playoffs are not a coin flip where fluke things, like Eddie Rosario becoming a god, have much impact at all. We should blow up the entire roster, because we have no chance! We had a losing record vs winning teams and only won our division because it sucked.

 

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4 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

This argument is still weak. Boston knows the Rays well and Boston was a top team for a large chunk of this year. They got Sale back and Schwarber at the deadline. The Dodgers beat one 100 win team and then lost to a team that should not have had HFA over them. Atlanta is also a very talented team that was dealing with a ton of injuries. People need to stop making excuses for us getting our butts beat badly. 

It's not an excuse, it's an example that the playoffs are a crap shoot and implying this team could never win a World Series ignores reality and the facts in front of your face. You can be disappointed with how the Sox performed in the playoffs and also realize that this team was also capable of winning a title just like every other team in the playoffs.

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19 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I know we are White Sox fans on here, but we are also baseball fans. So since the Dodgers were clearly inferior to the Braves this year getting their asses handed to them in the playoffs, just like our White Sox were lambasted for being so inferior because we lost a playoff series, and I've heard all this talk about all that needs to be changed with this Sox team because we lost a playoff series, what do the Dodgers need to do to get themselves to be on the same level as the Braves?..............

.........oh wait. The Dodgers were 18 games better than the Braves during the season? So they really were better? Well, they lost a playoff series to them. Which proves one thing boys and girls. THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A CRAPSHOOT!!

Now to begin with, I'm not ignorant enough to believe we don't have deficiencies to work on this off season. We don't have a right fielder, (actually we didn't have one before the season and didn't bother to get one,) we don't have a good every day second baseman and Kimbrel was a train wreck. But all I've heard since we lost the series to Houston is all that's wrong with us on here. I've even heard one idiotic comment on here that one of our problems is Abreu and Jimenez are too much alike so we need to get rid of one of them because of that. Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't let this ridiculously ignorant statement go. Maybe the Dodgers should get rid of Justin Turner, Max Muncy and Chris Taylor because they are all proponents of the "launch angle" theory, and therefore too much alike!! ( And yes, I know Muncy hits lefthanded so please, nobody comment on here that Muncy is different from Turner and Taylor being left handed. Because they all have something in common buying into the launch angle theory. ) But hey, they lost in the playoffs with these guys.....so I guess they aren't good enough.

I said in another post on here that only one team will win it all and everyone else will end up a loser. And the fact is that the FIFTH best team in the NL this year won the pennant!!

So let's here it everyone. We're number 5! We're number 5! We're number 5!! Is that a chant heard very often??

I guess my main point on here is the White Sox had a good year and won their division. And they will continue to be a strong team with this nucleus. What I feel proves this is we won 93 games without even being REMOTELY healthy. Do we have some work to do in the off season? Of course, as I stated two paragraphs ago. But to barbecue this team because we lost a playoff series? That's ridiculous. And if you believe we should, then you better to make sure you rip on the Dodgers, Giants, Rays and Brewers, all teams that won more games than we did, and also lost in the playoffs.

Playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls. Pure and simple. If your team wins it, enjoy and celebrate it. If you don't, nowadays it doesn't prove a thing. 

And maybe I'm being a bit sensitive because an analogy I've always liked to use, is your favorite baseball team is like your little brother. You can rip and pick on him all you want but nobody else better do it. So hearing the White Sox get ripped on here so heavily makes me defensive. Even if it is by other Sox fans. 

And guess what? We may shore up all our weaknesses this off season, get back to the playoffs..........and possibly lose again in the playoffs next year. Because winning a championship is never promised and the playoffs are a crapshoot. If you don't believe me, than just ask the Dodgers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well done, but don't worry, our fanbase holds the Sox to a completely different standards.

Hell just imagine if we had won 107 games then lost in the DS. The internet might explode with our fans calling the season a massive failure as it is

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