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The MLB lockout is lifted!

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On 10/30/2021 at 10:17 AM, FoxForce2 said:

Big Hurt, Ventura, Lance, Raines, Julio friggin' Franco.
Black Jack, Fernandez, Alvarez, Bere, Hernandez.
Who Are These Guys?!
And then the whole thing was flash frozen. It left me wondering why we can't have nice things; and then learned about JR's role in the whole mess.
sheesh
 

That’s not all.  The 1981 strike led to a split season and the Sox were not one of the 4 AL teams in the playoffs despite having the 3rd best record overall. Grrr…

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On 10/30/2021 at 11:32 AM, chetkincaid said:

Exactly. Sosa and McGwire were on the front page of the USA Today every day during that HR chase. And remember… that was before smart phones. 

Don't forget Griffey. 

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Some point fans are going to say piss off, well will be dry some day.

Edited by Soxfest

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On 10/27/2021 at 6:52 AM, reiks12 said:

If theres a strike that takes out a chunk of the season i think illbe done with baseball

Me too. My Sox fandom already has lessened because I don't approve of what has happened to game in terms of how it's played. Only thing keeping me hanging on as a baseball person is being a fan of a specific team, Sox. If they can't please both sides when they are charging so much for food, drink and parking, the heck with MLB. I was not crushed when Sox lost to Houston in playoffs. That's a first for me. Someone can compare my posts of 10-20 years ago to now in terms of anger at the team when it is eliminated.

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2 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

That’s not all.  The 1981 strike led to a split season and the Sox were not one of the 4 AL teams in the playoffs despite having the 3rd best record overall. Grrr…

Could have been worse.  The Reds had the best record in baseball and didn't make the playoffs.  Assume MLB will never do this again.

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2 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Some point fans are going to say piss off, well will be dry some day.

They have been, even before COVID. Fan interest will continue to shrink with the current ownership and commissioner.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/09/30/baseball-had-its-worst-attendance-in-16-years/

Quote

Total attendance was 68.49 million, which is down 1.7% from 2018 and represents the sixth decline in attendance in the last seven seasons. Attendance is down a whopping 14% from its height in 2007.

American Population: 1973 215.2M; 1983 236.0M; 1993 259.5M; 2003 289.8M; 2013 316.4M; 2020 331.0M.

World Series TV Audience: 1973: 34.8M; 1983: 29.5M; 1993: 24.7M; 2003 20.1M; 2013 15.0M; 2020 9.8M. (From 16.17% of population to 2.96%, an 81.7% decline).

Super Bowl TV Audience: 1973 53.3M; 1983 81.8M; 1993 91.1M; 2003 88.6M; 2013 108.7M; 2020 101.3M (From 24.77 % of population to 30.60%, a 23.6% increase).

Chop on, Manfred & Owners.

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On 10/27/2021 at 12:45 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

The good thing is, you can cross the last thing from your list.

You have managers like Dusty Baker who support the players, be it against owner collusion or using Scab players.

https://theathletic.com/477001/2018/08/17/rosenthal-dusty-baker-opens-up-on-the-nats-his-career-racism-the-state-of-the-game-and-the-smell-of-collusion/

You have others like Tony, who was angered by the players union's stance of retirees honoring the picket line, and purposefully crossed the line to join the scabs.

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/A-s-Duncan-feels-he-s-caught-in-the-middle-3151679.php

And also is in full support of illegal ownership collusion against free agents.

https://nypost.com/2012/10/27/8-years-143m-should-keep-wright-with-mets-for-life/

 

So you don’t want anyone to cross the picket line? Players, managers, front office, minor leaguers ?

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33 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So you don’t want anyone to cross the picket line? Players, managers, front office, minor leaguers ?

No interest in scab baseball, owner collusion, or their other disgraceful tactics. Fuck Outed Roider Frank Menechino, alias Jerry Legler, and the other scab players.

Frank "GIDP" Menechino continues to screw over the next generation of players with his shitty coaching.

In terms of FO and management paid by ownership during lockouts, kudos to Sparky Anderson and others who told MLB and their owners to GFT, and kudos to then Federal District Court Judge Sonia Sotomayor who saved baseball from destruction at the hands of the owners led by Bud Selig, and his puppet master, Jerry Reinsdorf.

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35 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

No interest in scab baseball, owner collusion, or their other disgraceful tactics. Fuck Outed Roider Frank Menechino, alias Jerry Legler, and the other scab players.

Frank "GIDP" Menechino continues to screw over the next generation of players with his shitty coaching.

In terms of FO and management paid by ownership during lockouts, kudos to Sparky Anderson and others who told MLB and their owners to GFT, and kudos to then Federal District Court Judge Sonia Sotomayor who saved baseball from destruction at the hands of the owners led by Bud Selig, and his puppet master, Jerry Reinsdorf.

Great post, thanks.  This is the Best of Soxtalk, to get background like this on an important issue.

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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

No interest in scab baseball, owner collusion, or their other disgraceful tactics. Fuck Outed Roider Frank Menechino, alias Jerry Legler, and the other scab players.

Frank "GIDP" Menechino continues to screw over the next generation of players with his shitty coaching.

In terms of FO and management paid by ownership during lockouts, kudos to Sparky Anderson and others who told MLB and their owners to GFT, and kudos to then Federal District Court Judge Sonia Sotomayor who saved baseball from destruction at the hands of the owners led by Bud Selig, and his puppet master, Jerry Reinsdorf.

At least the fans aren’t footing the bill for higher and higher player salaries. 

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3 hours ago, Texsox said:

At least the fans aren’t footing the bill for higher and higher player salaries. 

Instead they are footing the bill for substantially higher tickets, parking, concession and RCN prices, whereas player salaries remain stagnant, below inflation, nearly every penny of it going to the Owners.

  • 2011 White Sox Payroll: $127.7M vs, 2021 $128.7M, a 0.7% increase.
  • 2011 Cubs Payroll: $134.0M vs. 2021 $147.8M, a 10.2% increase.

Perhaps you don't get a chance to go to many games in Chicago, but tell me have tickets, parking, beers, food, cable bills increased 0.7% the past decade in Texas?

Most major league players earn at or near the minimum salary. Without factoring in survivor bias (only a small number of total professional ballplayers reach the Majors), most last a few years, most don't reach FA and many who do are colluded against by the owners the past few decades. Not to mention having to pay the highest tax brackets for their short careers.

Whereas the owners are getting billions from taxpayers in terms of subsidies, have substantial expense write-offs which minimize any taxes, defer capital gain taxes for decades, own teams in perpetuity without any free market interference courtesy of their Congressionally awarded monopoly. The same owners who paid millions to bribe Congress to avoid paying minor league players a minimum wage.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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Yep billionaires fighting with millionaires and some people actually pick sides.  Lmao. All yours man. Get yourself all worked up over it. Get really pissed. Make idle threats. Get that gut all twisted up over those poor millionaires getting screwed over by Jerry. Why not start your own thread about Jerry and Tony and post hourly how horrible they are? Do lots of research,  post lots of links. 

I have other things to do. Enjoy your off season. 

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@South Side Hit MenSo while you wring your hands over the fate of millionaire players who would easily cross the picket lines of the plumber’s union to get their gold plated toilets unstuck from all their shit, I’ll worry about the concession workers, car lot attendants, local businesses and everyone else who actually works for a living and truly suffers with a work stoppage. Bring on scab baseball. Let some cop, or teacher, insurance agent, put on the uniform and step into a pro locker room. I’ll side with thousandaires struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table, you take the millionaires. 
 

Your support during the strike, and $10, will get their autograph of thanks. 

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4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Yep billionaires fighting with millionaires and some people actually pick sides.  Lmao. All yours man. Get yourself all worked up over it. Get really pissed. Make idle threats. Get that gut all twisted up over those poor millionaires getting screwed over by Jerry. Why not start your own thread about Jerry and Tony and post hourly how horrible they are? Do lots of research,  post lots of links. 

I have other things to do. Enjoy your off season. 

 

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

@South Side Hit MenSo while you wring your hands over the fate of millionaire players who would easily cross the picket lines of the plumber’s union to get their gold plated toilets unstuck from all their shit, I’ll worry about the concession workers, car lot attendants, local businesses and everyone else who actually works for a living and truly suffers with a work stoppage. Bring on scab baseball. Let some cop, or teacher, insurance agent, put on the uniform and step into a pro locker room. I’ll side with thousandaires struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table, you take the millionaires. 

Your hissy fits illustrate there is only one person getting “worked up”.

The vast majority of players, perhaps a few hundred at most professional ball players are actually “millionaires”, playing in a finite window of opportunity.

Divide and conquer, the lone ballgame you’ll never, ever see the parasitic billionaires tank.

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5 hours ago, Texsox said:

@South Side Hit MenSo while you wring your hands over the fate of millionaire players who would easily cross the picket lines of the plumber’s union to get their gold plated toilets unstuck from all their shit, I’ll worry about the concession workers, car lot attendants, local businesses and everyone else who actually works for a living and truly suffers with a work stoppage. Bring on scab baseball. Let some cop, or teacher, insurance agent, put on the uniform and step into a pro locker room. I’ll side with thousandaires struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table, you take the millionaires. 
  

Your support during the strike, and $10, will get their autograph of thanks. 

Isn't this supposed to be about baseball?

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Most are still going to side with Goldman Sachs entry level account managers compared to the CEO and CFO, especially when you consider average earnings and lack of pensions/benefits over a lifetime for a non first round draft pick.  Heck, simply fortunate to get housing and non McDonald's/Taco Bell.

Then you have to consider the players are getting less and less of the pie every year...compounded by that comparison of 30+ veteran players today in FA being quite similar to 50-55+ middle managers in the real world...at least in the capitalist pecking order.

You certainly can't completely separate being a baseball fan from the business of baseball...and any time the word "union" enters a conversation, undoubtedly it gets sensitive, regardless of whether you are a teacher or not.  It's also much easier to imagine making it as a player in any sport than being a multi-billionaire.  

Edited by caulfield12

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5 hours ago, raBBit said:

Isn't this supposed to be about baseball?

Thread title is work stoppage. It is about the business of baseball. 

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5 hours ago, Texsox said:

Thread title is work stoppage. It is about the business of baseball. 

Borrowed this from an overlooked area of SoxTalk as its germane to the discussion.
 
 
Don: How do you think fans (who feel this way, at least) rationalize siding with owners over players while also constantly saying that Manfred is ruining the game? As if Manfred is anything more than a figurehead and mouthpiece for those owners?
1:19
Kevin Goldstein: Um . . . without getting too political, on a cultural level this country has turned bosses/business owners into heroes and workers into less than that.
Joe: Is it difficult to square any potential political leanings one might have about workers (say, they should be paid for their labor) and being in a front office? It seems sort of impossible not to treat players like commodities to some extent.
1:33
Kevin Goldstein: Yes, it can be difficult, and I personally believe players should never be referred to in commodified language, like ‘assets’ for example
 
Edited by caulfield12

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20 hours ago, Texsox said:

Yep billionaires fighting with millionaires and some people actually pick sides.  Lmao. All yours man. Get yourself all worked up over it. Get really pissed. Make idle threats. Get that gut all twisted up over those poor millionaires getting screwed over by Jerry. Why not start your own thread about Jerry and Tony and post hourly how horrible they are? Do lots of research,  post lots of links. 

I have other things to do. Enjoy your off season. 

People pick sides because for some it goes beyond how much the players are getting paid, it's about labor vs. capital. One side has too much power right now. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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Are the players reps and league even at the table working on this now or is it expected to kick into gear after the WS?

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3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

People pick sides because for some it goes beyond how much the players are getting paid, it's about labor vs. capital. One side has too much power right now. 

They are just fighting over how to divide up the money fans spend. In the end fans will have to spend more money to keep the millionaires and billionaires happy. Post free agency,  teams are making more, players are making more, and fans are spending more. 

Higher salaries for players equals higher cost for fans,  never lower team profits. 

But hey if you see a player they may sell you their autograph. 

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33 minutes ago, Texsox said:

They are just fighting over how to divide up the money fans spend. In the end fans will have to spend more money to keep the millionaires and billionaires happy. Post free agency,  teams are making more, players are making more, and fans are spending more. 

Higher salaries for players equals higher cost for fans,  never lower team profits. 

But hey if you see a player they may sell you their autograph. 

It is absolutely true that stagnant player wages over the past few years has meant higher team profits.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It is absolutely true that stagnant player wages over the past few years has meant higher team profits.

And the solution will be fans paying more to the players.  Open your wallet,  how much do you want to contribute to Adam's next contract? 

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5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

And the solution will be fans paying more to the players.  Open your wallet,  how much do you want to contribute to Adam's next contract? 

If the players union split and actually broke, that means ticket prices would decline in your best assessment?

I might be hinting at a more general feature of economics here.

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33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If the players union split and actually broke, that means ticket prices would decline in your best assessment?

I might be hinting at a more general feature of economics here.

Prices will never decline,  at best they hold steady or increase at less than the rate of inflation. 

 

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