Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Once I started coaching it greatly decreased the number of give a fucks I had for sports in general. Winter is the busiest so the Bears, Bulls, and Hawks get ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 You're a coach and you're anti-player. huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, poppysox said: I think both sides deserve credit for this and certainly not just JR. What does the commissioner do to earn his money? My point and question is this: Does JR really want a winning franchise, or does he want to break the union? As far as the commissioner? He does what the owners want him to do. Again, as in the past, a work stoppage will hurt the White Sox more than other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 hours ago, NWINFan said: My point and question is this: Does JR really want a winning franchise, or does he want to break the union? As far as the commissioner? He does what the owners want him to do. Again, as in the past, a work stoppage will hurt the White Sox more than other teams. I thought the commissioner worked in the best interest of baseball. He should be the guy who gets both sides to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: You're a coach and you're anti-player. huh I'm also anti owner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, poppysox said: I thought the commissioner worked in the best interest of baseball. He should be the guy who gets both sides to the table. No. He works for the owners. He is employed by the owners. He serves the interest of the owners, not the best interest of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sarava said: Were you expecting the Sox to be the 27 Yankees and breeze to multiple championships? Why would a disappointing season break you? It was actually when Eloy got hurt with a week left in ST followed by Robert 5 weeks later. Then, this offseason they're already crying poor. I've had it. They deserve to get passed by Detroit or KC this year. Edited January 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 30 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: No. He works for the owners. He is employed by the owners. He serves the interest of the owners, not the best interest of baseball. When Landis was asked to be commissioner after the Black Sox scandal...he insisted on complete control of everything baseball. His intent was to instill trust in baseball and used as his governing standard "best interest of baseball." Pete Rose is banned largely because of the standards set by Judge Landis. The commissioner's office still oversees the hiring of umps, negotiates contracts, and oversees everything baseball connected. The commissioner has always been paid by the owners but is expected to adhere to "best interest of baseball" standards is my understanding. Ideally, the commissioner would work to get both sides talking and act as something of an arbitrator in these matters. I understand that there is a difference between theory and reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Texsox said: I'm also anti owner. I really don't understand why everyone wants to play the blame game. Unions and businesses have these negotiation issues all the time. The players and owners make a ton of money and neither side has any right to be upset with their respective situations IMO. If they insist on killing the golden goose...that's on them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/8/2022 at 1:27 PM, Jack Parkman said: These last two years have broken me as a sports fan. I'm struggling to turn it off, but between the Sox, Bears and Hawks they've all given me tons of reasons to never care about sports again. I sat through the entire Sox rebuild and I don't think I've ever been as apathetic about the Sox as I was in 2021. I have pretty much given up all hope that the Sox are going to win another title with this ownership group. All I could be reminded of is my formative years as a Sox fan of 2001-2004 where the Sox had a talented team and ownership continually refused to put the team over the top. I've tried to continue watching the Hawks despite all of the things going on there but I feel gross. The Bears are the living embodiment of the peter principle. I have so many other things I enjoy. Why should I waste 3 hrs of my life that I'm not getting back every day on this stuff? The younger generation that doesn't give a fuck about sports.....they have something right. There are much better things in life. Why waste our time helping someone else chase their dream? Why don't we all just go chase ours? You're a gigantic baby. What did you hope to accomplish with this post? People feeling sorry for you? Did you want people to join in on the pitty party? You're the same guy that literally asked the admin team to ban you, only to reach out shortly after because you just couldn't go without this place. But now you're this "broken fan" Stop acting like a child and if something is upsetting you, do something about it. I haven't watched a second of the Hawks this year. Sold my 2007 Toews jersey (which actually netted me a solid return.) I'll check in on the NHL here and there but don't miss it right now. Really have enjoyed watching the Bulls. Stop doing things you don't like. And if you're going to continue doing it, then come here and cry about it, you're going to get shit about it from me, and others like you already have. 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 59 minutes ago, poppysox said: When Landis was asked to be commissioner after the Black Sox scandal...he insisted on complete control of everything baseball. His intent was to instill trust in baseball and used as his governing standard "best interest of baseball." Pete Rose is banned largely because of the standards set by Judge Landis. The commissioner's office still oversees the hiring of umps, negotiates contracts, and oversees everything baseball connected. The commissioner has always been paid by the owners but is expected to adhere to "best interest of baseball" standards is my understanding. Ideally, the commissioner would work to get both sides talking and act as something of an arbitrator in these matters. I understand that there is a difference between theory and reality. When his office negotiates with the umpires, he’s representing the owners again, not the players. Remember the year that the NFL locked out their officials and then the league caved after some egregiously bad officiating early in the replacement ref season? The players still showed up. The commissioner does retain a power called the “best interest of baseball” power. This is a power the union has agreed to give him to do some unilateral actions on the grounds that a bargained agreement cannot anticipate everything that could happen out in the world - suspending the 2020 spring training would be along those lines as an unexpected disaster. That does not mean he is compelled to act in the interests of baseball, rather it is a power both sides have agreed to. If he used that power in a reckless manner or used it against the players union in a bargaining sense, the players would come back and say they cannot allow that power to exist. In Therese negotiations he is the representative of ownership alone. If Jerry Reinsdorf wants his last act to be breaking the union completely and he wants three seasons canceled to make it happen, as long as a majority of the owners agree, then the commissioner does as well. He has no concern for the interests of baseball or fans here beyond what the owners want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Tony said: You're a gigantic baby. What did you hope to accomplish with this post? People feeling sorry for you? Did you want people to join in on the pitty party? You're the same guy that literally asked the admin team to ban you, only to reach out shortly after because you just couldn't go without this place. But now you're this "broken fan" Stop acting like a child and if something is upsetting you, do something about it. I haven't watched a second of the Hawks this year. Sold my 2007 Toews jersey (which actually netted me a solid return.) I'll check in on the NHL here and there but don't miss it right now. Really have enjoyed watching the Bulls. Stop doing things you don't like. And if you're going to continue doing it, then come here and cry about it, you're going to get shit about it from me, and others like you already have. I'm trying. It's really hard for me to do. I'm happy that I avoided the Hawks game last night. I'm probably not going to quit football because I watch games with my dad and it's important to us. I've wanted to quit baseball and hockey for years now and I keep going back. I know I'm probably going to come back yet again. It was a venting frustration post. Also, quite frankly I enjoy the online communities more than the sports themselves. Been doing it for so long it's hard to imagine not doing so. I know that eventually I'm going to keep watching anyway so whatever. Edited January 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, poppysox said: I really don't understand why everyone wants to play the blame game. Unions and businesses have these negotiation issues all the time. The players and owners make a ton of money and neither side has any right to be upset with their respective situations IMO. If they insist on killing the golden goose...that's on them. Exactly. I care the same today as I did a year ago about these issues. I know this will have a huge impact on the game going forward. Depending on the outcome, we'll see owners selling or players quitting if their side loses the negotiations. Guys in MiLB will go home and find better careers. Rich folks will find something different to impress their friends. My dream can't happen. Keep MLB contracts growing as they have, have owner's profits shrink as they increase MiLB compensation and lower the cost for fans. Instead the MiLB players and fans are left paying for this battle and they think they have a side in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 What happened with the Hawks that has everyone upset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 @Balta1701 I don't think either side is concerned about the fans, MiLB, employees, etc. Each side is looking out for their best interest and trying to make it look as pretty as possible. If anyone else does actually benefit, it's a accidental bonus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Just now, Texsox said: @Balta1701 I don't think either side is concerned about the fans, MiLB, employees, etc. Each side is looking out for their best interest and trying to make it look as pretty as possible. If anyone else does actually benefit, it's a accidental bonus. For once I agree with everything you wrote here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, Texsox said: What happened with the Hawks that has everyone upset? They covered up for a sexual predator. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: For once I agree with everything you wrote here. Which is why I find it a waste of energy to pick a side. I was going to write that eventually players will get everything they want, but it may take 50 years. But then I remembered Machiavelli. If the players received every point they are negotiating now when the next CBA was up there will be more issues. So taking a 1,000 year view everytime this is renegotiated there will be angst and debate. Eventually the owners will cede a little more and a little more. As a fan why worry about it each time? If I'm going to advocate for workers I'm going to advocate for the working class trying to build a better life for their loved ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, poppysox said: I thought the commissioner worked in the best interest of baseball. He should be the guy who gets both sides to the table. The idea of the commissioner acting in the best interest of baseball went out the window when Bud Selig was named to the job. The last strong commissioner was Bowie Kuhn. There are very few people looking out for the best interest of baseball if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, NWINFan said: The idea of the commissioner acting in the best interest of baseball went out the window when Bud Selig was named to the job. The last strong commissioner was Bowie Kuhn. There are very few people looking out for the best interest of baseball if any. Whose best interest? Fans? Owners? Players? Making a profit and increasing wealth for shareholders is how our society judges most companies as successful. Amazon, Tesla, Apple, and Walmart offer horrible pay and working conditions as they became industry leaders. More profits = more likely to be around for a long time. Owners tend to have longer careers in baseball than just about anyone. It's their industry. Like all American businesses they pay employees as little as they can. From an American business standpoint the best interest of baseball is anti player. I don't think we want that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, NWINFan said: The idea of the commissioner acting in the best interest of baseball went out the window when Bud Selig was named to the job. The last strong commissioner was Bowie Kuhn. There are very few people looking out for the best interest of baseball if any. Like insisting on a playoff game be played in pouring rain just to appease the TV folks. Phillies vs someone. Dodgers? It was a downpour for virtually the whole game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 43 minutes ago, Texsox said: Whose best interest? Fans? Owners? Players? Making a profit and increasing wealth for shareholders is how our society judges most companies as successful. Amazon, Tesla, Apple, and Walmart offer horrible pay and working conditions as they became industry leaders. More profits = more likely to be around for a long time. Owners tend to have longer careers in baseball than just about anyone. It's their industry. Like all American businesses they pay employees as little as they can. From an American business standpoint the best interest of baseball is anti player. I don't think we want that. C'mon, Tex. No need to exaggerate that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamhock Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 hours ago, oldsox said: Like insisting on a playoff game be played in pouring rain just to appease the TV folks. Phillies vs someone. Dodgers? It was a downpour for virtually the whole game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 10 hours ago, oldsox said: Like insisting on a playoff game be played in pouring rain just to appease the TV folks. Phillies vs someone. Dodgers? It was a downpour for virtually the whole game. Bowie Kuhn was far from perfect, but there were times he acted like an independent commissioner. When you have an owner acting as a commissioner it shows something. In any event, no commissioner will have any leverage regarding a work stoppage, and I doubt that he has leverage on many other things. The owners are running things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 hours ago, oldsox said: C'mon, Tex. No need to exaggerate that much. No exaggeration. The market forces on wages are all downward. Businesses aren't charities. If they can get the job done for less they will and they will be more "successful". Wages go up because a business can't hire and retain qualified employees at their current levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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