Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CentralChamps21

Sox give no qualifying offers

Recommended Posts

37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ray - you have to consider the fact that no one is more in tune with Carlos arm and shoulder than the Sox.  If he's simply not going to be able to give you a full season's workload, or heck, even 75% of what he gave you in 21, its not worth $18.3M.  I have zero issue with the Sox reallocating those funds.  That $18M could be as much at 75% of what we have to spend.  Extending the QO to Rodon was a big risk.  Things would need to go swimmingly to end up in the green on that one. 

If $18 million is 75% of what this team has to spend then that's the entire issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

IP by year.

139.1

165

69.1

120.2

34.2

7.2

132.2

 

FIP by year

3.87

4.01

4.69

4.95

3.62

4.89

2.65

If you spend money QO money on Carlos Rodon, you are paying him for both a career performance AND to be able to pitch 30 starts.  He has literally never pitched 30 times in one season, ever.  The closest he came was 2016.  This year he made it out there 24 times.  His history should absolutely be indicative of his expectations.

Oh yeah, for sure. I thought you were talking only about actual performance, as in his effectiveness in the starts he did make was a fluke. Because I see no reason why he can't pitch as effectively next year as he did this year. But yeah, when factoring in durability/reliability/availability, the odds of a repeat season are clearly lowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which he has done once in 7 years.

…last year, after recovering from TJS, changing his offseason training program with the team (credit to RaBBit for calling that) and changing his pitching approach (varying FB velocity, throwing a changeup). There’s good reasons to suspect that 2021 could represent a breakout year for that player.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Balta1701 said:

…last year, after recovering from TJS, changing his offseason training program with the team (credit to RaBBit for calling that) and changing his pitching approach (varying FB velocity, throwing a changeup). There’s good reasons to suspect that 2021 could represent a breakout year for that player.

And seven years of injury history is a better reason to believe it won't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

The only way that the Rodon QO decision wasn't the dumbest decision the White Sox FO has made in years is if Rodon needs offseason surgery.

Orrrrrr they think he's highly likely to accept because his arm isn't healthy, even if there isn't structural damage.  No one knows his medicals better than the Sox.  This is one I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on.  Rodon wasn't good in the 2nd half and didn't pitch over 5 innings after his first start following the ASG.  That version of him is a terrible gamble for $18.3M. 

  • Fire 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Orrrrrr they think he's highly likely to accept because his arm isn't healthy, even if there isn't structural damage.  No one knows his medicals better than the Sox.  This is one I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on.  Rodon wasn't good in the 2nd half and didn't pitch over 5 innings after his first start following the ASG.  That version of him is a terrible gamble for $18.3M. 

A fundamental question - would you expect anything more than that from a guy recovering from TJS and the 2020 season nuttiness, after they were pushed for a lot of innings in the first half?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty obvious to me that they're gonna have Kimbrel fill Rodon's spot in the rotation.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snopek said:

It's pretty obvious to me that they're gonna have Kimbrel fill Rodon's spot in the rotation.

I thought he was going to be our next second baseman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

A fundamental question - would you expect anything more than that from a guy recovering from TJS and the 2020 season nuttiness, after they were pushed for a lot of innings in the first half?

Ok so 2021 would be year 2 coming off TJS so I think we can stop saying he was still recovering like it just happened 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hi8is said:

I thought he was going to be our next second baseman.

He should be able to do both if Keuchel lets him borrow his golden mitt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snopek said:

He should be able to do both if Keuchel lets him borrow his golden mitt. 

Are you related to Kopech?

Edited by maloney.adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ok so 2021 would be year 2 coming off TJS so I think we can stop saying he was still recovering like it just happened 

No but he also didn’t get to build up his arm at all in 2020 with how that year went.

What would his year have looked like without this permanent damage people are suspecting? Do you think he could have thrown 175 innings without it? 130 seems like a really big number for him and a real impressive success based on where things started and I struggle to understand people thinking that is a red flag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Are you related to Kopech?

If so, I've done a really poor job exploiting him for his fame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No but he also didn’t get to build up his arm at all in 2020 with how that year went.

What would his year have looked like without this permanent damage people are suspecting? Do you think he could have thrown 175 innings without it? 130 seems like a really big number for him and a real impressive success based on where things started and I struggle to understand people thinking that is a red flag.

It's very interesting how much you are discounting the second half of 2021 here.  But hey when you have to keep with the "Sox are so cheap about everything" mantra I guess this is what we get 

  • Thanks 1
  • Fire 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's very interesting how much you are discounting the second half of 2021 here.  But hey when you have to keep with the "Sox are so cheap about everything" mantra I guess this is what we get 

I haven’t called them cheap. Im not a fan of this decision, but they spent $16 million 2 days ago and are lined up with a $150 million+ payroll already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's very interesting how much you are discounting the second half of 2021 here.  But hey when you have to keep with the "Sox are so cheap about everything" mantra I guess this is what we get 

But... in a way they are?

Again, Verlander, Syndergaard, Ed Rod and etc were all extended QO's. I noted earlier if Carlos has off-season surgery I would 100% understand. If he doesn't, he signs somewhere, and then passes his physical then this is a horrible move. It's really that simple.

Could he fail his physical or have surgery? Sure. Do the Sox deserve the benefit of the doubt that they're not being cheap? Absolutely not.

All Carlos costs was money. Instead the Sox will probably end up trading more assets for "affordable" arms like they did with Lynn. This team should be pushing 190+ million dollar payroll, but we know that won't happen. How is that not frustrating? If they really trade Kimbrel, they're at about 140 now. Carlos puts them at 158. They could still sign a 2B and another SP/RP if they acted like an actual heart-of-the-contention window organization.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

But... they are?

Again, Verlander, Syndergaard, Ed Rod and etc were all extended QO's. I noted earlier if Carlos has off-season surgery I would 100% understand. If he doesn't, he signs somewhere, and then passes his physical then this is a horrible move. It's really that simple.

Could he fail his physical or have surgery? Sure. Do the Sox deserve the benefit of the doubt that they're not being cheap? Absolutely not.

All Carlos costs was money. Instead the Sox will probably end up trading more assets for "affordable" arms like they did with Lynn. This team should be pushing 190+ million dollar payroll, but we know that won't happen. How is that not frustrating? If they really trade Kimbrel, they're at about 140 now. Carlos puts them at 158. They could still sign a 2B and another SP/RP if they acted like an actual heart-of-the-contention window organization.

We have no idea what the case is yet, no moves have been made at all, so I'm not really going to call this the worst move that was never made.  much like last year they can still come back to the table and agree on something that satisfied both parties instead of "well you just blew 18M on an arm that fell apart(again)."

believe me, I'm not against a Rodon return but I wouldn't want it at the QO right now considering his spiral after the break and multiple starts where his MPH fell off a cliff mid game 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the Rodon decision, but right now this starting rotation doesn't look all that good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NWINFan said:

I agree with the Rodon decision, but right now this starting rotation doesn't look all that good.

It’s not that bad as it appears. If Keuchel has a bounce back year, which he has done so in the past and Cease takes another step forward than we’re one of the best rotations in the league. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It’s not that bad as it appears. If Keuchel has a bounce back year, which he has done so in the past and Cease takes another step forward than we’re one of the best rotations in the league. 

I think Keuchel is what he is at this point. A soft 60-game schedule makes his 2020 season look great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rotation definitely looks weaker right now and imo it should not be weighed including Keuchel.  They need to move him and upgrade the rotation without him 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No but he also didn’t get to build up his arm at all in 2020 with how that year went.

What would his year have looked like without this permanent damage people are suspecting? Do you think he could have thrown 175 innings without it? 130 seems like a really big number for him and a real impressive success based on where things started and I struggle to understand people thinking that is a red flag.

I think it’s an amazing success too and Carlos was a huge part of the Sox running away with the division by the ASB.  
 

The guy didn’t pitch in the 2nd half though.  I thought they were just limiting his innings too,  but now I’m not so sure.  Maybe that shoulder was barking like crazy.  I don’t know how to know.  
 

Maybe they could send Keuchel and Burger to a team like Texas and then sign Rodon?  I’d actually like that.  Los was the man this year while he had it.  Unstoppable force.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the "if good thing happens, team will be fine" type statements always feel too much like crossing your fingers and hoping for the best. No reason for a team that considers itself a title contender to go into next season hanging hopes on a Keuchel bounce back. It could happen, sure, but getting anything more than they got from him this past season should be considered a bonus. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I think Keuchel is what he is at this point. A soft 60-game schedule makes his 2020 season look great.

Yeah, you can easily find an 11 start period last year where he was pretty good. In fact, he had an 11 start stretch where he had a 3.2 ERA from late April to to mid June. Sox will be lucky to get a 4.5 ERA out of him next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I think Keuchel is what he is at this point. A soft 60-game schedule makes his 2020 season look great.

He had a decent first half.  Really, the issues started in August when he couldn't get teh ball over the plate.  If we get the guy from the first half, we will be fine.  I also don't necessarily think this means Rodon is gone.  The market value for Rodon is really unknown.  But I think they didn't want to take the risk that he would take the $18 million, which I think is a safe bet.  I can totally see them brinigng him back at $10 million with an option and a load of incentives.  Due to his second half, he's likely going to have to take a prove it deal anyways.  I also don't think this means they are being cheap either. If you can spend $24 million this off season, why waste $18 million on one player when you have a really good rotation as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×