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Avisail Garcia opts out

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Old friend alert.  Another OF on the market.

 

Edited by HoosierSox

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Avisail is not the defensive outfielder the Sox need to play everyday in right, I thought Engel would fill the bill this year but injuries cost us the defense we so badly needed in the outfield.

I'd like Marte or Conforto but my guess is the Sox don't offer anyone longer than a year with a club option, which means we don't sign anyone worthwhile.

Buckle-up for another year of Engel-Sheets-Vaughn-and there goes another one over my head Leury.

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Avi has been good defensively the last two years

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54 minutes ago, fathom said:

Avi has been good defensively the last two years

He lost a lot of weight last year and it paid off. He probably had his 2nd best season of his career and was a huge positive defensively.

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https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=300&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d

 

He (Avi) was actually 5th at FG for RF defensive rankings.  There were only 9 above 0.0, the rest were in negative territory.

Slugger Adolis Garcia (TEX) was the leader, by far, on D.  Adam Duvall, Avi and Austin Hays (Orioles) are the other guys between 2-3 fWAR (overall) that play strong/solid defense.  Haniger's defensive numbers were REALLY bad.

 

Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

 

 

 

 

Edited by caulfield12
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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=300&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d

 

He (Avi) was actually 5th at FG for RF defensive rankings.  There were only 9 above 0.0, the rest were in negative territory.

Slugger Adolis Garcia (TEX) was the leader, by far, on D.  Adam Duvall, Avi and Austin Hays (Orioles) are the other guys between 2-3 fWAR (overall) that play strong/solid defense.  Haniger's defensive numbers were REALLY bad.

 

Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

 

 

 

 

Duvall also had heavy reverse splits in 2021. He couldn't hit lefties at all, but has pretty even splits for his career. A reverse splits right handed hitter might not be a bad idea for the Sox. Much better than a right handed outfielder that do most of their damage against lefties. 

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5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

 

Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

 

 

 

 

A RH slugger with good RBI totals but puts up abysmal OBP. Competent outfielder; and I don't use the term 'competent' lightly.  Could do worse, but I'd really like to see going upscale at the position. You're right in thinking that if the Sox go this route that Duvall would likely be their first choice.

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16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=300&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d

 

He (Avi) was actually 5th at FG for RF defensive rankings.  There were only 9 above 0.0, the rest were in negative territory.

Slugger Adolis Garcia (TEX) was the leader, by far, on D.  Adam Duvall, Avi and Austin Hays (Orioles) are the other guys between 2-3 fWAR (overall) that play strong/solid defense.  Haniger's defensive numbers were REALLY bad.

 

Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

 

 

 

 

Duvall is under control for another season with Atlanta.

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1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Duvall is under control for another season with Atlanta.

So much for that.

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4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Duvall is under control for another season with Atlanta.

The Braves might not want to pay him $9,500,000 next season...they can focus on profitability coming off the World Series.

He's one of those guys who won't make your team, nor will he (likely) kill it either, a true complementary player.

He's also 33 already.

 

Just don't like adding any position players these days that are older than 32...

Edited by caulfield12
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32 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Duvall is under control for another season with Atlanta.

He declined the mutual option but is still arb eligible for $9 million.

Edited by chw42

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36 minutes ago, chw42 said:

He declined the mutual option but is still arb eligible for $9 million.

Yep. There is a chance he can be non-tendered for sure but as of now he is not a free agent. They could trade him too I guess.

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7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=300&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d

 

He (Avi) was actually 5th at FG for RF defensive rankings.  There were only 9 above 0.0, the rest were in negative territory.

Slugger Adolis Garcia (TEX) was the leader, by far, on D.  Adam Duvall, Avi and Austin Hays (Orioles) are the other guys between 2-3 fWAR (overall) that play strong/solid defense.  Haniger's defensive numbers were REALLY bad.

 

Now whether the White Sox would go after Avi again, Adam Duvall seems a lot more likely the default move since a shorter deal.

 

 

 

 

Not discounting your source , however there are many ways to look at stats, and Avi is 31st on this list.

Outs Above Average (OAA) is the cumulative effect of all individual plays a fielder has been credited or debited with, making it a range-based metric of fielding skill that accounts for the number of plays made and the difficulty of them. For example, a fielder who catches a 25% Out Probability play gets +.75; one who fails to make the play gets -.25.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2021&endYear=2021&split=no&team=&range=year&min=q&pos=9&roles=&viz=show

Edited by A-Train to 35th

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I once again find it funny that we just finished the season saying “we are too redundant, too full of right handed corner players that hit too many ground balls “ and then two weeks later people are like “we should sign Avi”.

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My current thinking is to pair Sheets and Vaughn.  They need to play somewhere and RF makes the most sense.  Spend resources on 2nd base and a reserve defensive catcher.  Of course...pitching is always on the shopping list.

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2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

My current thinking is to pair Sheets and Vaughn.  They need to play somewhere and RF makes the most sense.  Spend resources on 2nd base and a reserve defensive catcher.  Of course...pitching is always on the shopping list.

I’m trading Vaughn before I turn him into a weak side platoon player.

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

I once again find it funny that we just finished the season saying “we are too redundant, too full of right handed corner players that hit too many ground balls “ and then two weeks later people are like “we should sign Avi”.

Yeah, the quickest way to get people hooked on a Sox player is for him to leave the Sox.

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The Sox need to stop with the trend of taking good bench guys and trying to force 120 games of mediocre starting on them

Leury Garcia and Adam Engel are not MLB-level starters.

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2 hours ago, poppysox said:

My current thinking is to pair Sheets and Vaughn.  They need to play somewhere and RF makes the most sense.  Spend resources on 2nd base and a reserve defensive catcher.  Of course...pitching is always on the shopping list.

Agree 100%. 

They're going to keep coddling the child to play LF (Eloy).    Vaughn by default moves to RF.   At least this buys another year to see what develops out of Cespedes with another full season in AA / AAA.

Sheets should see ever opportunity for ABs at DH and 1B, especially against RH pitchers.   Abreu to DH and Grandal to 1B against LH  starters. 

2B is by far the biggest weakness that needs to get addressed.

 

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2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I’m trading Vaughn before I turn him into a weak side platoon player.

Anyone can be traded for the right price of course.  As a general rule, I am not in favor of trading our high 1st round draft picks.  Madrigal was quite enough to last me for a while.

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"They're going to keep coddling the child to play LF (Eloy).    Vaughn by default moves to RF.   At least this buys another year to see what develops out of Cespedes with another full season in AA / AAA."


While I'd prefer a different scenario altogether, you're probably right about the outfield situation. I have a different take on RF than most do however. i.e. right and left aren't so comparable as to simply classify them as interchangeable 'corner' positions. A classic LF would be a Gordon or even a Brantly, whereas a classic RF is more along the lines of a Betts or Guerrero SR. RF requires a lot more athleticism than left, to the point that a team can hide a good hitting, fair athlete in left where that player would likely be exposed in right. I doubt that running Vaughn in right will belay his development - but it's not optimum placement for either him or the club.
IMO anyway.

Edited by FoxForce2

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31 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

"They're going to keep coddling the child to play LF (Eloy).    Vaughn by default moves to RF.   At least this buys another year to see what develops out of Cespedes with another full season in AA / AAA."


While I'd prefer a different scenario altogether, you're probably right about the outfield situation. I have a different take on RF than most do however. i.e. right and left aren't so comparable as to simply classify them as interchangeable 'corner' positions. A classic LF would be a Gordon or even a Brantly, whereas a classic RF is more along the lines of a Betts or Guerrero SR. RF requires a lot more athleticism than left, to the point that a team can hide a good hitting, fair athlete in left where that player would likely be exposed in right. I doubt that running Vaughn in right will belay his development - but it's not optimum placement for either him or the club.
IMO anyway.

Except Gordon was a much better athlete and also had a far better arm than Brantley…who’s on the field primarily for his bat and because Alvarez is the primary DH.

Guerrero Sr. had one of the best arms in baseball history, but wasn’t all that mobile after the first half of his career.  So you can probably argue mostly arm and athleticism the icing on the cake.

In that sense, slimmed down Avi Garcia fits the mold.  And Eaton had his best Sox season right as well due to outfield assists before being leveraged in trade.

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"In that sense, slimmed down Avi Garcia fits the mold.  And Eaton had his best Sox season right as well due to outfield assists before being leveraged in trade."

If they're going the economy route (again) in right, then Garcia might be a decent get. But is he the right choice in that he'd be returning to a previous team? That's not all that common in the leagues. Garcia played well in his contract year, is he going to sustain that motivation in coming back to the Sox for the next 2-3 years?
Again, running Vaughn in right just doesn't sit well with me  - left yes. I don't doubt Vaughn's motivation or the fact that he's a BASEBALL PLAYER, it's just that there are plays presented to a RF that he just isn't equipped to handle.

Edited by FoxForce2

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Anyone can be traded for the right price of course.  As a general rule, I am not in favor of trading our high 1st round draft picks.  Madrigal was quite enough to last me for a while.

I don't think Bob was saying he wanted to trade Vaughn necessarily. He would just trade him before we limit him as strictly a weak side platoon player and kill his value He would only be playing about 20% of the time in this scenario). I don't want to trade Vaughn but I would agree with Bob in that scenario.

Engel would be the guy you platoon however.

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