Where could Kimbrel be traded, and for what?

[Two-Gun Pete]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fake Twitter insiders really pushing this Kimbrel for Segura narrative pretty hard.  I really don’t see that happening unless they’ve added a left-handed RF already.  If the Sox trade Kimbrel as their next move, I’d assume it’s for prospects and role players (lesser reliever, backup catcher, etc) and not a guy like Segura who will limit their flexibility going forward.

So here's THIS:

The writer doesn't seem to think that the Phillies youngsters are ready. The writer also doesn't think much of Gregorius, and seems to think that Phila needs financial flexibility going forward.

If in fact this writer has the pulse of the Phillies FO, it wouldn't seem to be a match for them to trade for Kimbrel; they wouldn't have the financial flexibility they'd want, and they'd blow a hole in their roster at the same time.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

There's a funny blurb in there.  The Phillies didn't ruin Scott Kingery.  Scott Kingery ruined Scott Kingery.  

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So here's THIS:

The writer doesn't seem to think that the Phillies youngsters are ready. The writer also doesn't think much of Gregorius, and seems to think that Phila needs financial flexibility going forward.

If in fact this writer has the pulse of the Phillies FO, it wouldn't seem to be a match for them to trade for Kimbrel; they wouldn't have the financial flexibility they'd want, and they'd blow a hole in their roster at the same time.

That’s the issue with Toronto and the Phillies, who both did relatively well with young/cheaper closers.

There aren’t mote than a handful of logical matches…maybe 4-5 contending teams, tops.  

[Dick Allen]

35 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fake Twitter insiders really pushing this Kimbrel for Segura narrative pretty hard.  I really don’t see that happening unless they’ve added a left-handed RF already.  If the Sox trade Kimbrel as their next move, I’d assume it’s for prospects and role players (lesser reliever, backup catcher, etc) and not a guy like Segura who will limit their flexibility going forward.

It's funny, they are all over this, but had nothing on Graveman.

[EloyJenkins]

1 hour ago, Jnooch said:

Would Giants give up Tommy LaStella for Kimbrel?  Tommy is due 16 million over next 2 seasons and hits well from left side? 
Giants have some money coming off payroll after 2022 ….thoughts?

This was my hope as well. Or if the Dodgers want to give us something meaningful. 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's funny, they are all over this, but had nothing on Graveman.

I think it's pretty clear they don't have any sources, outside of reading posts on Twitter or this board from people who do. It's really easy to connect teams to free agents and line up trade partners based on needs. When a move doesn't happen? "The team talked with team/player and he signed somewhere else/trade fell through."

[caulfield12]

Just now, EloyJenkins said:

This was my hope as well. Or if the Dodgers want to give us something meaningful. 

Or they just bring back K.Jansen, but most likely to exercise $8 million option and pay Blake Treinen to close.

Not to mention Graterol and pretty sure Knebel.  
 

Kelly’s also gone, it seems.

 

[ChiSox59]

If the Sox didn't have an option on Kimbrel, a Segura-Kimbrel swap would be fine.  But considering the Sox pickuped up Kimbrel's option, trading him for a 2B making roughly the same when there are a ton of FA 2B that are as good or good fits than Segura, makes it a far less interesting trade. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the Sox didn't have an option on Kimbrel, a Segura-Kimbrel swap would be fine.  But considering the Sox pickuped up Kimbrel's option, trading him for a 2B making roughly the same when there are a ton of FA 2B that are as good or good fits than Segura, makes it a far less interesting trade. 

🤔

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Or they just bring back K.Jansen, but most likely to exercise $8 million option and pay Blake Treinen to close.

Not to mention Graterol and pretty sure Knebel.  
 

Kelly’s also gone, it seems.

 

If Caulfield ever writes a book, he will definitely name names. It might be all that he does, but he will at least do that. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

If Caulfield ever writes a book, he will definitely name names. It might be all that he does, but he will at least do that. 

"I need to meet that 50-name per page quota!"

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

"I need to meet that 50-name per page quota!"

I think he has the latest edition of the Baseball Encyclopedia memorized.  He definitely  knows a lot of names. If he ever wrote a tell all involving seedy characters, he probably would have to go into witness protection.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Dick Allen

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the Sox didn't have an option on Kimbrel, a Segura-Kimbrel swap would be fine.  But considering the Sox pickuped up Kimbrel's option, trading him for a 2B making roughly the same when there are a ton of FA 2B that are as good or good fits than Segura, makes it a far less interesting trade. 

The only second basemen better than Segura in FA is Semien (far better).  And there really isn't anyone particularly close.  

[hi8is]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If Caulfield ever writes a book, he will definitely name names. It might be all that he does, but he will at least do that. 

He gave me 1.5 million dollars worth of shiba inu so he can’t be all bad.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The only second basemen better than Segura in FA is Semien (far better).  And there really isn't anyone particularly close.  

Maybe worded poorly.  But was also kind grouping the shortstops into that as well - which frankly Semien probably thinks he is anyway. I just think the Sox can find better value at 2B than paying Segura $15M in 2022 - whether that is via trade or FA.  I wouldn't hate a Segura/Kimbrel trade, especially if Conforto is signed for RF, just seems like if that was the plan, they should have just declined Kimbrel's option and used the $16M elsewhere.  I also, ideally, would like a lefty at 2B but I can get over that if Conforto is on the roster. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Maybe worded poorly.  But was also kind grouping the shortstops into that as well - which frankly Semien probably thinks he is anyway. I just think the Sox can find better value at 2B than paying Segura $15M in 2022 - whether that is via trade or FA.  I wouldn't hate a Segura/Kimbrel trade, especially if Conforto is signed for RF, just seems like if that was the plan, they should have just declined Kimbrel's option and used the $16M elsewhere.  I also, ideally, would like a lefty at 2B but I can get over that if Conforto is on the roster. 

Honestly, I was thinking about it the other day and I would be content with Villar at 2B in the 9-spot for cheap if it means we added a top of the rotation arm and Conforto is in RF.

[Flash]

12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The only second basemen better than Segura in FA is Semien (far better).  And there really isn't anyone particularly close.  

Chris Taylor?

[Chisoxfn]

The one thing to remember about Segura, who in isolation is a fine ball player and an upgrade for the team - just a bit pricey for what he brings, is that depth wise Segura is really valuable because if Anderson is hobbled you can than slide Segura over and still have a good starting short stop. 
 

Like I said - not the move I would make but it isn’t awful. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The only second basemen better than Segura in FA is Semien (far better).  And there really isn't anyone particularly close.  

Taylor is a better player who could be used primarily at 2B.  And Escobar put up more fWAR than Segura did last year, so I’d say they’re particularly close at a minimum.

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

The one thing to remember about Segura, who in isolation is a fine ball player and an upgrade for the team - just a bit pricey for what he brings, is that depth wise Segura is really valuable because if Anderson is hobbled you can than slide Segura over and still have a good starting short stop. 
 

Like I said - not the move I would make but it isn’t awful. 

Exactly.  He’s a perfectly fine ball player and brings some attributes, but that 50% ground-ball rate and limited power aren’t what we need at this point in time from the 9 hole.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s the issue with Toronto and the Phillies, who both did relatively well with young/cheaper closers.

There aren’t mote than a handful of logical matches…maybe 4-5 contending teams, tops.  

When you're a team that has some budgetary constraints, every dollar spent on a Graveman or middling veteran 2B is a dollar that can't be deployed to pursue top of the market studs.

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the Sox didn't have an option on Kimbrel, a Segura-Kimbrel swap would be fine.  But considering the Sox pickuped up Kimbrel's option, trading him for a 2B making roughly the same when there are a ton of FA 2B that are as good or good fits than Segura, makes it a far less interesting trade. 

Sure, given the financial constraints, blowing what, $14MM or so on a 2-ish fWAR 2B isn't as good a fit as say, an Escobar-level contract for 2-ish fWAR. 

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The only second basemen better than Segura in FA is Semien (far better).  And there really isn't anyone particularly close.  

Yes, but thanks to profligate spending elsewhere in the roster, can this org make Semien's salary fit into this roster? I'm not too sure.

 

EDIT: Just because one writer has a rumor that the SOX will spend does not mean that they actually WILL spend. When an org shows you who and what they are over and over again ad nauseum, you should believe them.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

budgetary constraints

185 to 200 million of them with a potential to free up about 20 to 30 million in there. We have more flexibility than most believe and are likely to be in the upper tier of the league… Dodgers and Yankmes aside.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

185 to 200 million of them with a potential to free up about 20 to 30 million in there. We have more flexibility than most believe and are likely to be in the upper tier of the league… Dodgers and Yankmes aside.

In no way am I impugning Jimmy. But, if you're older than ~8 years old, you've seen this same song-and-dance over and over and over and over again from this FO:

"We've got a seat at the table."

"The money will be spent."

And so on.

 

To the bolded, what links do we have that this will actually occur, apart from Jimmy saying that they'll spend? Do we have anyone reputable saying the same? Boob saying that the SOX are looking for a SP "LIKE Ray," and a 2B "LIKE Semien" is not news. Its (as-yet) unsubstantiated speculation. 

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

In no way am I impugning Jimmy. But, if you're older than ~8 years old, you've seen this same song-and-dance over and over and over and over again from this FO:

"We've got a seat at the table."

"The money will be spent."

And so on.

 

To the bolded, what links do we have that this will actually occur, apart from Jimmy saying that they'll spend? Do we have anyone reputable saying the same? Boob saying that the SOX are looking for a SP "LIKE Ray," and a 2B "LIKE Semien" is not news. Its (as-yet) unsubstantiated speculation. 

It’s just an indication of belief I’ve had about this off-season long before anyone “reputable” iterated the same thought.

We’ll see but I think many will be surprised at our 2022 payroll.

[Dominikk85]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

There's a funny blurb in there.  The Phillies didn't ruin Scott Kingery.  Scott Kingery ruined Scott Kingery.  

Scott kingery got a private guy named schenck. He is a pool hall owner who made himself known by insulting everyone on Twitter and in internet forums which all banned him. 

That guy had success with Aaron Judge but most guys who worked with him strike out a ton (judge too but he has enough power and patience to make it worse). 

 

He claims to be the only guy who understands a magic elite swing pattern and fights with everyone who disagrees with him and he has a little cult of followers. 

They basically teach extreme lean back over the rear leg and then turn the handle of the bat straight down which means they can hit pitches down well but nothing in the upper half

Jason ochart from the Phillies said that mlb teams try to prevent their guys from working with him because of that but he had success with judge so that attracts some guys who want to hit for more power. 

Most end up like kingery or happ though unless they have extreme power and plate discipline to make that approach work