Where could Kimbrel be traded, and for what?

[ron883]

17 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

So wait, they told Kimbrel he might close sometimes and they planned on letting him close sometimes, but he pitched himself out the closer before he got a chance? 

Then he continued to pitch poorly because of this?  And he was big mad?

Is that the story? 

Honestly asking.  

Apparently the front office acquired Kimbrel to be at least a part time closer with Hendriks, but TLR big timed the front office and refused to use him as a closer. None of the local or national reporters have reported this, but internet poster Harold's Leg Lift has implied it. 

[fathom]

9 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Apparently the front office acquired Kimbrel to be at least a part time closer with Hendriks, but TLR big timed the front office and refused to use him as a closer. None of the local or national reporters have reported this, but internet poster Harold's Leg Lift has implied it. 

There were a few local media members that said Kimbrel was not in the role he was told he’d be.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Apparently the front office acquired Kimbrel to be at least a part time closer with Hendriks, but TLR big timed the front office and refused to use him as a closer. None of the local or national reporters have reported this, but internet poster Harold's Leg Lift has implied it. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-tony-la-russa-regrets-use-craig-kimbrel-vs-rays

 

https://theathletic.com/realtime/lRE7KwSC1BrX/

See Fegan comments/quote from TLR at the top of this page...these were the Monday Morning QBing comments everyone was irate about.

 

[ron883]

30 minutes ago, fathom said:

There were a few local media members that said Kimbrel was not in the role he was told he’d be.

He had to have known he would be at least a part time setup man. I haven't seen anything indicating he would be a full time closer, and there's no way they would promise that and remove Hendriks from the closer role. 

I guess if he was promised he would be a co-closer this would make sense. Not sure the results would have changed much, since he sucked as a setup man and would likely continue sucking as one. It's pretty mind boggling he never got a shot at closing. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by ron883

[hi8is]

14 minutes ago, ron883 said:

It's pretty mind boggling he never got a shot at closing. 

Yes. I miss Madrigal.

[Sambuca]

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Yes. I miss Madrigal.

I was able to watch him slappa da ball a little tonight while I had on the replay of the Rodon no-hitter.

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

I was able to watch him slappa da ball a little tonight while I had on the replay of the Rodon no-hitter.

😢 + 🥳

[Chicago White Sox]

With things being quiet, I’ve been treading up on this Marchin kid some.  He sounds super interesting and would be a terrific prospect that could backup Grandal for the next couple of years.  Baseball America has him as the Phillies’ 9th overall prospect on their 2022 list and below is their write-up:

1. 9. Rafael Marchan | C
   

   Born: Feb 25, 1999 

   Bats: B Throws: R 

   Ht.: 5'9" Wt.: 196 

   Drafted/Signed: Venezuela, 2015. 

   Signed By: Jesus Mendez. 

   Minors: .202/.281/.236 | 0 HR | 1 SB | 242 AB 

   VIEW PLAYER CARD

   BA Grade: 45/Medium
   
   Track Record: Marchan’s excellent defense in 2020 spring training impressed Joe Girardi, and after spending time at the alternate training site he made his big league debut in September, collecting four hits in eight at-bats. Marchan spent the 2021 season getting juggled back and forth between Triple-A and the majors, struggling mightily with the bat and posting a .203 average in 67 games at Triple-A and a .231 average in 20 games with the Phillies. 
   
   Scouting Report: Marchan makes his money behind the dish, where he’s a plus-plus defender thanks to above-average blocking skills, a strong throwing arm and the ability to handle pitchers. Marchan has a patient approach at the plate, with some of the lowest whiff and chase rates in the organization and does a good job of putting the ball in play. He needs to improve his bat speed, however, to get more impact on the ball. Marchan is working on reducing his groundball rate and needs to develop more physicality, with well below-average power currently. His plus-plus defense gives him the floor of a big league backup catcher, but if he improves his bat speed and power he could turn into an everyday player.
   
   The Future: With JT Realmuto entrenched at catcher in Philadelphia, the best role Marchan can aspire to is backup. He might fill a share of that role in 2022 if the Phillies don’t sign a veteran backstop this offseason.
   
   Scouting Grades: 
   Hit: 45. Power: 30. Speed: 40. Fielding: 70. Arm: 60.

[Bunt Ritual]

I read Marchan's scouting report on FG and the only thing they seems to agree with BA about is that he doesn't have any power.  Even called him out as a mediocre defender.  They also have him rated as the Phillies #6 prospect and compared him to Keiburt Ruiz ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited November 26, 2021 by Bunt Ritual

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

I read Marchan's scouting report on FG and the only thing they seems to agree with BA about is that he doesn't have any power.  Even called him out as a mediocre defender.  They also have him rated as the Phillies #6 prospect and compared him to Keiburt Ruiz ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Does that have more value than the comp pick we would have gotten for Rodon?

Between the second and third rounds, it would be something less than Kelley or Thompson, essentially.

Edited November 26, 2021 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

I read Marchan's scouting report on FG and the only thing they seems to agree with BA about is that he doesn't have any power.  Even called him out as a mediocre defender.  They also have him rated as the Phillies #6 prospect and compared him to Keiburt Ruiz ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I will say the FG’s report conflicts significantly with the Baseball America write-up, which refers to Marchan having “plus plus” defense and put a 70 grade on it.  I usually go with BA over FG when in conflict and have no idea why FG would have Marchan as a top 6 prospect if his defense was “mediocre”.  He’s put up solid K & BB rated and is still super young for a catching prospect (still only 22), but the complete lack of in-game power and minimal raw power should greatly limit his offensive ceiling.  As such, FG’s assessment and ranking seem to go against one another.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Does that have more value than the comp pick we would have gotten for Rodon?

Who did Rodon sign with?

[caulfield12]

The Phillies have recently acquired 2 catchers in 2 separate trades. They got Donny Sands from the Yankees and Garrett Stubbs from the Astros. This has made a Rafael Marchan or a Logan O’Hoppe moveable for the Phillies.

Catcher is a positional need for the White Sox as Yasmani Grandal is now 33 years old and had knee surgery last season. Their backup, Zach Collins, hasn’t shown a capacity to hit in the majors nor has he been able to control opposing baserunners. In parts of 3 seasons, he has a 16% caught stealing rate. 

The White Sox are also devoid of any catching prospects as MLB.com doesn’t have 1 listed in their top 30.  (Likely Carlos Perez is there now.)

Rafael Marchan, having some major league experience, would make the most sense. He’s been praised by Phillies’ skipper Joe Girardi and seemed to have several teams interested during the 2021 trade deadline. 

Pairing Marchan with a SS prospect like Luis Garcia would most likely get a deal done. Both have been regarded as top-10 prospects for the Phillies. Losing Garcia wouldn’t hurt either as Bryson Stott looks to make the leap to the majors in 2022.

 

https://phillysportsnetwork.com/2021/11/22/phillies-craig-kimbrel/

[Bunt Ritual]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I will say the FG’s report conflicts significantly with the Baseball America write-up, which refers to Marchan having “plus plus” defense and put a 70 grade on it.  I usually go with BA over FG when in conflict and have no idea why FG would have Marchan as a top 6 prospect if his defense was “mediocre”.  He’s put up solid K & BB rated and is still super young for a catching prospect (still only 22), but the complete lack of in-game power and minimal raw power should greatly limit his offensive ceiling.  As such, FG’s assessment and ranking seem to go against one another.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of FG's write up as it seems to contradict itself with the high ranking and favorable comparison to Ruiz who is/was one of the best catching prospects in baseball. For what it's worth, Pipeline is more in line with BA.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who did Rodon sign with?

You really think nobody will sign him, looking at the crazy salary numbers for pitchers so far…?

[Chicago White Sox]

40 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You really think nobody will sign him, looking at the crazy salary numbers for pitchers so far…?

I don’t have his medicals and am not sure why the Sox passed on offering him a QO yet.  Either way, what does that have to do with the Kimbrel return?

[bmags]

38 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

I read Marchan's scouting report on FG and the only thing they seems to agree with BA about is that he doesn't have any power.  Even called him out as a mediocre defender.  They also have him rated as the Phillies #6 prospect and compared him to Keiburt Ruiz ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah I hate being in the game of picking and choosing but the BA guys get to SO many games that especially for defense of trust it more.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t have his medicals and am not sure why the Sox passed on offering him a QO yet.  Either way, what does that have to do with the Kimbrel return?

Because the White Sox had “coin flip” decisions on both guys…no guarantee either decision will end up ultimately working in their favor, especially not offering Rodon.  Even among the mods, there a number that would have taken the exact opposite approach.

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

You really think nobody will sign him, looking at the crazy salary numbers for pitchers so far…?

I think the Sox will sign him . . . Eventually

[bmags]

So I’ve been chewing on this Kimbre role speculation, and I gotta say it comes across to me like Hahn fucking up way more than TLR

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, bmags said:

So I’ve been chewing on this Kimbre role speculation, and I gotta say it comes across to me like Hahn fucking up way more than TLR

Do you mind elaborating?  I guess I still don’t get the issue at hand, so hard for me to know who’s at blame.

[maloney.adam]

 

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you mind elaborating?  I guess I still don’t get the issue at hand, so hard for me to know who’s at blame.

Acquiring a player mid season and promising them a closer role is a defacto demotion for one of your best performing players to that point. That TLR may have gone rogue and undermined it just highlights that it was a pretty complicated plan to impose mid season on a role that was working reasonably well. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Acquiring a player mid season and promising them a closer role is a defacto demotion for one of your best performing players to that point. That TLR may have gone rogue and undermined it just highlights that it was a pretty complicated plan to impose mid season on a role that was working reasonably well. 

Gotcha…makes sense.

[hi8is]

32 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Ok… fine. We’ll include Keuchel and take Bryce Harper back. Twist the arm but, sure.