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2022 Offseason Plan Thread

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10 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So you trade him for Bassitt who can only help you one year ?

When did I ever say I would trade him for Bassitt?  I literally said that would be a massive overpay and said I wouldn’t even love trading him for Castillo or Gray.  In fact I’m pretty sure I said I’d be nervous trading him for any short-term pitcher.

Most of my proposals have been using him as the centerpiece for Ketel Marte or Bryan Reynolds.  The only pitcher I’ve proposed potentially trading him for was Gallen, who is both controllable and has a TOR ceiling.

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1 hour ago, wegner said:

I predict my reaction if Vaughn is traded.....

 

The best way to turn Andrew Vaughn into a Soxtalk MVP is to trade him.

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18 hours ago, poppysox said:

Gee this is groundbreaking news.  I'm sure most of us thought we picked up a 16 million option to unload for table scraps.  

Well there are people who aren't expecting much of a return for Kimbrel. There are those who think that getting the whole salary off the books is just as important which could've been accomplished by declining his option. If you get the whole salary off the books and get table scraps some see it as a win.

If you trade him for equal salary it's a loss if you don't get a good fit when there are other needs.

I think the Sox end up making a bigger trade and add pieces to the Kimbrel trade .

As an example maybe it's true the Dodgers want him . Who from the Dodgers could be a good fit for the Sox. ?

Gavin Lux : LH, turned 24 yesterday. Primarily a SS/2B who played all 3 OF positions and 3B with a good walk rate. Might be slated to be the new Chris Taylor with the Dodgers. He's yet to find his stride as a hitter . He was a 1st round pick in 2016. 5 yrs of eligibility left.

Matt Beaty : LH,1B,3B,LF,RF,29 in April 120games, 234 PA , 7 HR 114wRC+ .8 fWAR 1MILB option

Zach McKinstry : LH, 26, played RF,2nd, LF, 3rd in 60 games, -.5fWAR ,1MiLB option

There are more of course but those 3 offer a variety of positions and all bat LH.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Andrew Vaughn won the Golden Spikes award for the best college player.  Here are the past winners before him:

2016: Kyle Lewis (ROY)

2015: Benintendi (eh)

2014: AJ Reed (Ouch)

2013-2001: Kris Bryant (great), Zunino (fine), Bauer (great), Harper (great), Strasburg (great), Posey (great), Price (great), Lincecum (great), Gordon (great), Weaver (great), Weeks (good), Prior (great)

 

All in all, the vast majortity of the people who won that award went on to be very very good/great MLB players.  Not sure why so many here have practically given up on Vaughn (yes trading him for Bassit/Gray is giving up on him).

 

You want them to make their decision based on a college award he won 5 years ago?  Come on now my guy.  We need to stop looking backward and start looking forward.

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15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The best way to turn Andrew Vaughn into a Soxtalk MVP is to trade him.

I'm done with this team if they trade him....for a whole week, I'm done...OK maybe a couple of days.

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Just now, wegner said:

I'm done with this team if they trade him....for a whole week, I'm done...OK maybe a couple of days.

I am moving to get away from them.  Probably from my office to my bedroom.

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1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

You want them to make their decision based on a college award he won 5 years ago?  Come on now my guy.  We need to stop looking backward and start looking forward.

Yes, let's look forward. This is a guy described as a Paul Goldschmidt type, Paul Konerko on steroids, making very little money with a ton of control. Looking forward, a guy like this is exactly what the team needs even if JR breaks the bank, because even if he does have a huge payroll, eventually that means luxury tax. That his something JR didn't want to pay even when he was printing money with the Bulls. Vaughn is a keeper. The Sox will rue the day they let him go unless a team overpays.

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Don't understand why defense would be the reason to sign conforto over schwarber. Conforto's defense is awful. Worse than Schwarber's last year

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6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes, let's look forward. This is a guy described as a Paul Goldschmidt type, Paul Konerko on steroids, making very little money with a ton of control. Looking forward, a guy like this is exactly what the team needs even if JR breaks the bank, because even if he does have a huge payroll, eventually that means luxury tax. That his something JR didn't want to pay even when he was printing money with the Bulls. Vaughn is a keeper. The Sox will rue the day they let him go unless a team overpays.

He doesn't fit on this team beacuse he doesn't have a position.

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2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He doesn't fit on this team beacuse he doesn't have a position.

Sign Conforto, sign a cheap 2B, play Sheets at Charlotte (or sell high on him, I don't care) and make it work for a year until Abreu is a free agent (not that that is a guarantee for him to be gone).

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15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

You want them to make their decision based on a college award he won 5 years ago?  Come on now my guy.  We need to stop looking backward and start looking forward.

I am saying people who have won that award generally become great players. Why would we sell Vaughn at his lowest point.

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6 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He doesn't fit on this team beacuse he doesn't have a position.

If the really good teams in baseball have taught us anything it's that you can work a good hitter into games by rotating them around positions. Plus it's not like Eloy has some great record of health.

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1B is a position that can be replaced probably easier than most positions, if Vaughn is the cost for guys like Castillo, Ketel Marte, Bryan Reynolds, Flaherty (not saying he’s available) you do it. Why you’d even think twice about it is beyond me. Vaughn may end up being a valuable hitter but this team is in contention right now and any of the names mentioned above make this team much better than what Vaughn can contribute right now. 

Edited by Rey21

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Fuck it. Let’s get crazy. Sign Conforto for RF, Schwarber for DH, trade Vaughn in a deal for Marte for 2B and a reliever, deal Kimbrel for a lesser reliever and whatever prospects we can get, try to unload all of Kuechel’s salary for whatever.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Fuck it. Let’s get crazy. Sign Conforto for RF, Schwarber for DH, trade Vaughn in a deal for Marte for 2B and a reliever, deal Kimbrel for a lesser reliever and whatever prospects we can get, try to unload all of Kuechel’s salary for whatever.

And sign Max...would be lying if I haven’t thought about the scenario

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5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Fuck it. Let’s get crazy. Sign Conforto for RF, Schwarber for DH, trade Vaughn in a deal for Marte for 2B and a reliever, deal Kimbrel for a lesser reliever and whatever prospects we can get, try to unload all of Kuechel’s salary for whatever.

You missed signing Mad Max too. 😆

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30 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Why would we sell Vaughn at his lowest point.

You don’t if someone isn’t paying you for his proper future value projection. Baseball execs worth half their weight have a good evaluation on him and know the pedigree of prospect he is. 

Someone deals with you at near his ceiling or he stays here.

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41 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Don't understand why defense would be the reason to sign conforto over schwarber. Conforto's defense is awful. Worse than Schwarber's last year

lol…this isn’t remotely true.

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I don't hate con o-for, but I don't see how him being our "prize" (as some have suggested he would be if signed) of the offseason moves us any closer to a championship. Especially because he will most likely be overpaid for what he is.

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2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Some of us want to be good for the next 5-7 years, not push all the chips in right now and suck balls again in 24.  

That ship has already begun to sail, I'm afraid. Trading league minimum salary cromulent pieces for a closer that was not needed at the last TDL started the "window shortening" process. 

(Actually, it started when they didn't try to regain the year of control on Kopech/start to stretch him and Crochet out to start last season.)

With every big contract handed out to SPs, the less likely Giolito re-signs here. With every big contract handed out to shortstops, the less likely TA re-signs here. Add into it the aging process on Hendriks/Keuchel/Abreu/Grandal and we can already see the ending of this window coming.

With exactly Jack and Shit in MiLB to replace soon-to-be departing and/or aging pieces, we should probably make peace with the fact that this window ain't gonna be "5 to 7 more years."

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Glad you find that funny @maloney.adam!  Trading Vaughn for short term rotation help is idiotic. 

Agreed. But once you accept that this window will close (probably in 2023/4), will it really matter in 5 to 7 years?

I dont "want to" trade Vaughn, but we don't have a lot of years to wait for this org to get it together.

Banners fly forever.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete
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41 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Don't understand why defense would be the reason to sign conforto over schwarber. Conforto's defense is awful. Worse than Schwarber's last year

Can you enlighten us to which defensive metric you used to determine this ?  Defensive stats are a mishmash where one can draw multiple conclusions from UZR,DRS and OAA. Schwarber threw out a lot of base runners and looks OK on paper because of that, the same way Adam Eaton once did.

Also kicking around a few hits will hurt bad in a SSS, while if you don't kick them and catch all the fly balls you get near can hide the fact you get poor reads and jumps and have no range.

Someone with good speed and a good jump may not take the best routes because he's off with the crack of the bat and may have to adjust his route on the way. Grading OF defense is difficult. I prefer a good range factor and OAA when it comes to defense.

 

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