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DirtySox

Sox to talk about Semien with Boras

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31 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I would hope that they have far more than a 2 year window.    
4 good years after 7 years of a dog-and-pony show is no good leverage.
Capable front offices contend for far more than 4 years.
This "all in"  stuff is not something adept front offices do in order to contend.

The two year window is to get the most out of the vets they have. The Sox aggressiveness to get Kimbrel shows they probably will be aggressive this offseason to fix the big holes they have. I think it's the two open position spots, and adding two guys to the bullpen-resign Tepera and a LH like Chafin. Free agency won't fix everything. 

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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How many teams run out right after a guy takes another offer to scream about what they offered him through their mouth piece?

Do you think the Sox are the only ones who use the media to their advantage?  That's a pretty regular occurance.

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2 hours ago, tray said:

And a case could be made that with Vaughn's impressive 2021, he may be someone to stick with over Eloy for LF, and have Eloy be part of a win now trade. 

--------------------------------------------

Vaughn is better than Eloy? OK. I won't re litigate that other than to say that is a joke.

"Win now?" That was the promise of the Kimbrel trade where Hahn gave up other core pieces for nothing. I don't trust Hahn's judgment when it comes to trading away any player or top prospect.

Long term, Vaughn could be a better fit than Eloy with the other pieces the Sox have. Eloy would garner a better return sure. So could Vaughn plus the other additons be better than simply Eloy? Yeah, depending on who. 

Kimbrel was lights out and then flopped. That was on him not management. All the other playoff contenders would have added them if the price wasn't too high.

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I don't really care about budget, it's "not my money"... but Semien would be the best upgrade at 2B and Marte to me would be the best upgrade to RF. Let Vaughn/Sheets alternate at DH and spell Eloy in LF. I would think you could get both of those guys for $35/year - Marte on a 2/3 year and Semien likely will take 5. Heck, give Semien an opt out after 1 and 2 years. If he's playing so well to want to opt out then whatever we paid him will have been worth it. 

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I'll just say that I'm someone that easily gets excited at the talk of the sox targeting a high profile guy, but I just don't buy this at all.

He would be a great piece though. We've talked a lot about balancing out our weaknesses. He is right-handed, but torched RHP last year and is still a career above average hitter vs. RHP. He hits fly balls, he only has a 30% ground ball rate. His contact isn't incredible but at just 20% it's a more competitive at bat.

And his defense at 2b is fantastic, shoring up our defense.

So it's not a shock sox would be interested, but I just don't see them going the extra mile for him. Like can't even do the dreaming thing.

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16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How many teams run out right after a guy takes another offer to scream about what they offered him through their mouth piece?

How often does a player accept a lower offer?  Haven’t you argued in the past like 95% of free agents take the biggest offer?

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25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Do you think the Sox are the only ones who use the media to their advantage?  That's a pretty regular occurance.

How is admitting that you offered a guy more money and he accepted to go elsewhere using the media to your advantage? lol

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17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How often does a player accept a lower offer?  Haven’t you argued in the past like 95% of free agents take the biggest offer?

Yeah, but you're not hearing about the % from a teams mouthpiece about how they offered more.

Sometimes the Sox act like their doing the players a favor when they offer big money, and not that the player earned this money. Machado and Wheeler.

I'm not insinuating it was a fake offer, btw. They offered it, they thought they'd get him and they didn't. They've still yet to sign someone over 100 million in the history of their organization (matched by only teams like the Pirates and Rays) and every season there are multiple Sox fans here linking the Sox to 30AAV+ guys and guys that would shatter the Sox largest contract; as if the Sox are the favorite or make sense.

The Sox will never be a favorite for the marquee FA's on the market until they actually sign one for once.

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, but you're not hearing about the % from a teams mouthpiece about how they offered more.

Sometimes the Sox act like their doing the players a favor when they offer big money, and not that the player earned this money. Machado and Wheeler.

I'm not insinuating it was a fake offer, btw. They offered it, they thought they'd get him and they didn't. They've still yet to sign someone over 100 million in the history of their organization (matched by only teams like the Pirates and Rays) and every season there are multiple Sox fans here linking the Sox to 30AAV+ guys and guys that would shatter the Sox largest contract; as if the Sox are the favorite or make sense.

The Sox will never be a favorite for the marquee FA's on the market until they actually sign one for once.

This 1000000%. I don’t know how people give them benefit of the doubt when it comes to spending haha

Edited by Bob Sacamano

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FanGraphs' crowdsource has him getting 4 years at $23 million a year. Do you see the Sox forking over that much money? I certainly don't. It seems like the max we're really willing to go with is about $19 million a year on our players. 

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3 hours ago, tray said:

And a case could be made that with Vaughn's impressive 2021, he may be someone to stick with over Eloy for LF, and have Eloy be part of a win now trade. 

--------------------------------------------

Vaughn is better than Eloy? OK. I won't re litigate that other than to say that is a joke.

"Win now?" That was the promise of the Kimbrel trade where Hahn gave up other core pieces for nothing. I don't trust Hahn's judgment when it comes to trading away any player or top prospect.

You might not re-litigate Vaughn vs. Eloy but Eloy is scheduled to make @11M/yr over next 3 years w/team options for 2 more at @35M. Vaughn <5M over next 5 yrs. Vaughn has significantly greater trade value than Eloy. 

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Sox set the market for Wheeler, who plays a position that gets 9 figure contracts, with a 9 figure contract.

Sox fans crying "cheap" annually is so tired. The Sox set the market for SP, C and closer the past three seasons. They converted on 2 of 3. Wheeler chose Philly for other reasons. 

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4 minutes ago, macsandz said:

Sox fans crying "cheap" annually is so tired. The Sox set the market for SP, C and closer the past three seasons. They converted on 2 of 3. Wheeler chose Philly for other reasons. 

who?

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

who?

With their attempt at Wheeler.

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1 minute ago, hi8is said:

With their attempt at Wheeler.

I don't get it. Why do they get credit for setting the market there, I thought that phrase means they gave highest contract to the position.

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't get it. Why do they get credit for setting the market there, I thought that phrase means they gave highest contract to the position.

Yeah I agree with you. A little confusing.

Edited by Bob Sacamano

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22 minutes ago, chw42 said:

FanGraphs' crowdsource has him getting 4 years at $23 million a year. Do you see the Sox forking over that much money? I certainly don't. It seems like the max we're really willing to go with is about $19 million a year on our players. 

He’s going to get way more than that

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32 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How is admitting that you offered a guy more money and he accepted to go elsewhere using the media to your advantage? lol

Because the fanbase was irate over the Machado fiasco and the front office wanted it to be clear that they actually made the highest bid for Wheeler without the BS option year shit that they used with Manny.

But seriously, are you actually arguing they made fake offers to Wheeler?  Like what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

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21 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't get it. Why do they get credit for setting the market there, I thought that phrase means they gave highest contract to the position.

If you offer me $500k for my house - my realtor isn’t accepting anything less. You set the market.

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24 minutes ago, fathom said:

He’s going to get way more than that

You think he'll get 4 years and $30 million per? 

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Just now, chw42 said:

You think he'll get 4 years and $30 million per? 

More years, maybe like 5/160

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

More years, maybe like 5/160

Conforto and a pitcher makes so much more sense than Semien at that price.  Can’t afford to pay him SS money and use him at 2B.

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29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because the fanbase was irate over the Machado fiasco and the front office wanted it to be clear that they actually made the highest bid for Wheeler without the BS option year shit that they used with Manny.

But seriously, are you actually arguing they made fake offers to Wheeler?  Like what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

The Sox claimed they offered "the most" to Machado too. Difference is in the Machado one the concept of "most" was called to question.

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56 minutes ago, macsandz said:

Sox fans crying "cheap" annually is so tired. The Sox set the market for SP, C and closer the past three seasons. They converted on 2 of 3. Wheeler chose Philly for other reasons. 

Of highest contracts ever given out, the Sox only rank ahead of the:

Pirates
Rays
Indians
Athletics

The Sox ranked 15th in payroll in a year they, themselves, called all-in.

I wonder where they get that cheap moniker.

They "set the market" at positions and levels that aren't actually bank breaking.

There's a difference between setting the market on a house in a cheap neighborhood by buying the most expensive house, than there is setting the market in a desirable and wealthy neighborhood by buying the most expensive house.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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56 minutes ago, macsandz said:

Sox fans crying "cheap" annually is so tired. The Sox set the market for SP, C and closer the past three seasons. They converted on 2 of 3. Wheeler chose Philly for other reasons. 

Except investing so much in guys like Robertson, Hendriks and Kimbrel has gotten the White Sox where, exactly?

Plus, if they had succeeded with Collins, they wouldn't have had to give out the biggest contract in team history to Grandal.

They let Narvaez and McCann go when both were much cheaper options.

I guess it was worth it if you believe the White Sox miss the playoffs in 2020 without Colome, but they could have bought a closer for $8-10 million and kept Omar, too.

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