2022 Hall of Fame ballot - Ortiz in; Bonds/Clemens NOT

[flavum]

This is the thread for the current ballot for 2022.

[Dick Allen]

Dick Allen had the same OPS+ as Frank Yhomas. Frank was deservedly a first ballot guy. Dick Allen hasn't played in over 40 years and is dead. It's a joke he isn't in. 

I hate how death seems to increase chances. Ron Santo drove me nuts but if you're going to vote for them when they are dead, vote for them when they are alive. Let them have that moment. I hope  Dick and Minnie get in today although it should have been years ago. I also hope another ex-White Sox, Jim Kaat gets in today. He's going in someday, do it while he is here.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Dick Allen had the same OPS+ as Frank Yhomas. Frank was deservedly a first ballot guy. Dick Allen hasn't played in over 40 years and is dead. It's a joke he isn't in. 

I hate how death seems to increase chances. Ron Santo drove me nuts but if you're going to vote for them when they are dead, vote for them when they are alive. Let them have that moment. I hope  Dick and Minnie get in today although it should have been years ago. I also hope another ex-White Sox, Jim Kaat gets in today. He's going in someday, do it while he is here.

Jerry and likely others are on record as being opposed to Dick Allen’s induction, in part for his pro union/player advocacy positions more so than any lack of on field merit.

https://deadspin.com/mlb-hall-of-fame-vets-inaction-failing-greats-of-the-ga-1845859656

My preference for HOF standards would be “inner ring” inductees (most of the BBWAA inductees, a few of the earlier veterans committee picks, the first Negro League class and a few more) with about 130, say 85 hitters and 45 pitchers.

Today, there are more than twice that count (263). Based on the current actual standards, I agree with you there is a solid case for several of the nominees today and on the January BBWAA Ballot.

Edited December 5, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[pcq]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Dick Allen had the same OPS+ as Frank Yhomas. Frank was deservedly a first ballot guy. Dick Allen hasn't played in over 40 years and is dead. It's a joke he isn't in. 

I hate how death seems to increase chances. Ron Santo drove me nuts but if you're going to vote for them when they are dead, vote for them when they are alive. Let them have that moment. I hope  Dick and Minnie get in today although it should have been years ago. I also hope another ex-White Sox, Jim Kaat gets in today. He's going in someday, do it while he is here.

Jim is known from the Twins yet few Sox pitchers have won 20 games twice that I can recall. Wilber Wood and who else? Ed Walsh I assume.  

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Jim is known from the Twins yet few Sox pitchers have won 20 games twice that I can recall. Wilber Wood and who else? Ed Walsh I assume.  

Black Jack got to 20. Loaiza got there before having some…issues.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

Jim is known from the Twins yet few Sox pitchers have won 20 games twice that I can recall. Wilber Wood and who else? Ed Walsh I assume.  

There are thirteen White Sox pitchers who have won 20 or more games in a season two to four times in a White Sox uniform.

• (4) Ed Walsh [40 (1908); 27 (1911, 1912); 24 (1907)]
• (4) Red Faber [25 (1921); 24 (1915); 23 (1920); 21 (1922)]
• (4) Wilbur Wood [24 (1972, 1973); 22 (1971); 20 (1974)]

• (3) Eddie Cicotte [29 (1919); 28 (1917); 21 (1920)]
• (3) Ted Lyons [22 (1927, 1930); 21 (1925)]
• (3) Frank Owen [22 (1906); 21 (1904, 1905)]

• (2) Frank Smith [25 (1909); 23 (1907)]
• (2) Jim Scott [24 (1915); 20 (1913)]
• (2) Nick Altrock [23 (1905); 20 (1906)]
• (2) Lefty Williams [23 (1919); 22 (1920)]
• (2) Jack McDowell [22 (1993); 20 (1992)]
• (2) Jim Kaat [21 (1974); 20 (1975)]
• (2) Billy Pierce [20 (1956, 1957)]

Edited December 6, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[flavum]

It’s Kaat, not Katt. Jaysus.

[flavum]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:09 PM, flavum said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot-2022-alex-rodriguez-david-ortiz-join-bonds-clemens-schilling-in-final-year/
 

It’s that time of year again. Last year on the ballot for Schilling, Bonds, and Clemens. 
 

I’d vote for the three mentioned, plus Rolen, Helton, Kent, Buehrle, Hunter, Hudson, Rollins

Jon Morosi and I usually pick HOF very similarly. He has Ortiz, Jones and Sheffield. I have Hudson, Hunter, and Helton. Otherwise, the same. 

I really haven’t been following the tracking that much this time around. I guess Ortiz making it wouldn’t be awful, but it’s going to be close. I could see him being a second year pick. He’s really the only one with a chance of making it. 

January 25 will be announcement night.

[reiks12]

Its hilarious that Ortiz is going to get in on his first ballot. If the steroid user stayed on the Twins he wouldnt even be considered.

[poppysox]

On 12/5/2021 at 12:45 PM, Dick Allen said:

Dick Allen had the same OPS+ as Frank Yhomas. Frank was deservedly a first ballot guy. Dick Allen hasn't played in over 40 years and is dead. It's a joke he isn't in. 

I hate how death seems to increase chances. Ron Santo drove me nuts but if you're going to vote for them when they are dead, vote for them when they are alive. Let them have that moment. I hope  Dick and Minnie get in today although it should have been years ago. I also hope another ex-White Sox, Jim Kaat gets in today. He's going in someday, do it while he is here.

If the only criteria for the HOF are talent...Allen would be a lock.

[knightni]

Interesting thread.

 

[Colome's Hat]

Buehrle won't make it this year but I think if he can hit 20-25% this year, I think he's got a decent chance of making it by the sixth or seventh year.  I'm just glad that people are starting to reckon with his career and take it seriously.  His numbers put him in a pretty elite class of pitchers.  And I just don't think in the future we will see pitchers like him ever again.  To be honest, in five years, the average innings starters throw is going to start to be somewhere around 160-170. You might see one pitcher hit 200 innings.  Buehrle was truly a historic pitcher and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.  I kind of thought before he retired that he and maybe Kershaw were the only two pitchers who could seriously make a run at 300 wins.

[oldsox]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:55 PM, knightni said:

Interesting thread.

 

Red Sox fans don't like Jeter.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Red Sox fans don't like Jeter.

One of the most over rated players of my lifetime.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[CentralChamps21]

59 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

One of the most over rated players of my lifetime.

I agree that he was overrated, but still more than good enough to warrant a first ballot HOF vote.

[Balta1701]

38 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I agree that he was overrated, but still more than good enough to warrant a first ballot HOF vote.

71-73 WAR, 3000 hits, should be a first ballot guy even if he never played a playoff game.

[Quin]

Things to watch for today:

• If Buehrle stays on the ballot.
• If Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz get in.

Ortiz getting in basically invalidates the steroid argument. Bonds and Clemens massively invalidate that, but it also murders the character argument hampering Schilling and Vizquel (Bonds being a domestic abuser, Clemens grooming a 15-year-old).

I'm definitely not arguing for Schilling or Vizquel here. Like I said earlier, Cap Anson probably doesn't get in if he's voted on today. Roberto Alomar is banned from baseball and wouldn't be allowed in.

Fun fact: Fergie Jenkins, Willie Mays, and Mickey Mantle were all banned from baseball. Jenkins because a customs search in Canada found him with drugs. Mays and Mantle because - well after their playing careers - they worked at casinos. Jenkins got reinstated by an arbiter. The following commissioner reinstated Mays and Mantle.

[flavum]

Hopefully Ortiz gets in if only to get him off the ballot. We can debate all day whether he deserves to be in, but for me, the line was after testing with penalties, and then especially post-Mitchell Report. Cano, Braun, Manny, Arod…not ever.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, flavum said:

Hopefully Ortiz gets in if only to get him off the ballot. We can debate all day whether he deserves to be in, but for me, the line was after testing with penalties, and then especially post-Mitchell Report. Cano, Braun, Manny, Arod…not ever.

I will vote for him as soon as he gives us the results of the investigation he said he was launching into his reported positive test in the 2003 survey testing. It's been what, 13 years, so that should be coming any day now.

[Kyyle23]

I will vote for Ortiz every time.  My vote will override Baltas non vote, don't worry

[Texsox]

I'm with Balta. 

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I will vote for him as soon as he gives us the results of the investigation he said he was launching into his reported positive test in the 2003 survey testing. It's been what, 13 years, so that should be coming any day now.

That's coming out the day after the report on OJ's search for the real killer.

[Quin]

2 hours ago, flavum said:

Hopefully Ortiz gets in if only to get him off the ballot. We can debate all day whether he deserves to be in, but for me, the line was after testing with penalties, and then especially post-Mitchell Report. Cano, Braun, Manny, Arod…not ever.

I'd vote A-Rod in over Ortiz.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Quin said:

I'd vote A-Rod in over Ortiz.

Who cares. Put them all in.  Hall of fame yay so sacrosanct woo.  

its run by a bunch of aggrieved bitches who value personal grudges over players careers.  We have multiple voters turning in blank ballots for consecutive years and nobody cares 

[Colome's Hat]

4 hours ago, Quin said:

Things to watch for today:

• If Buehrle stays on the ballot.
• If Bonds, Clemens, and Ortiz get in.

Ortiz getting in basically invalidates the steroid argument. Bonds and Clemens massively invalidate that, but it also murders the character argument hampering Schilling and Vizquel (Bonds being a domestic abuser, Clemens grooming a 15-year-old).

I'm definitely not arguing for Schilling or Vizquel here. Like I said earlier, Cap Anson probably doesn't get in if he's voted on today. Roberto Alomar is banned from baseball and wouldn't be allowed in.

Fun fact: Fergie Jenkins, Willie Mays, and Mickey Mantle were all banned from baseball. Jenkins because a customs search in Canada found him with drugs. Mays and Mantle because - well after their playing careers - they worked at casinos. Jenkins got reinstated by an arbiter. The following commissioner reinstated Mays and Mantle.

Knock on wood, I think it's less of if Buehrle stays on the ballot but more if he gains ground.  I don't see him not staying on the ballot.  He's not going to lose that many people who voted for him last year.