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Kyyle23

Kendall Graveman agrees to deal w/Sox 3/$24

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I just find it funny that TLR was accusing Graveman of hitting Abreu on purpose and then he's our first off-season signing. 

As for the deal itself, meh. I guess he replaces Tepera/Kimbrel next year. I honestly think Tepera is a better reliever than him. Graveman has better stuff and more upside, but he seemingly was lucky last year and gave up a ton of hard contact whenever I watched him pitch. 

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1 minute ago, chw42 said:

I just find it funny that TLR was accusing Graveman of hitting Abreu on purpose and then he's our first off-season signing. 

It's the number one trait Tony looks for in a reliever. :D

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3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Hahn has had a solid record overall with relief pitching acquisitions.

Hahn's 2013-2021 Relief Pitching Acquisitions ($5M +):

  • $13.0M Liam Hendriks $54M 4 years; 2021; 71 IP; 2.6 bWAR; 2.54 ERA; 2.34 FIP. Three years remaining.
  • $11.5M David Robertson $46M 4 years; 2015 - July 2017; 159 IP; 2.9 bWAR; 3.28 ERA; 3.05 FIP. Traded for Blake Rutherford (AAA). 
  • $9.0M Joakim Soria $9M + $1M buyout; April - July 2018; 38.2 IP; 1.1 bWAR; 2.56 ERA; 2.15 FIP. Traded for minor leaguers.
  • $9.0M Kelvin Herrera $17M + $1M buyout; 53.2 IP; -0.5 bWAR; 6.54 ERA; 4.95 FIP. Free agent.
  • $8.9M Alex Colome $17.85M 2019-2020; 83.1 IP; 2.1 bWAR; 2.27 ERA; 3.78 FIP. Free agent.
  • $8.0M Kendall Graveman $24M 3 years. Three years remaining.
  • $6.0M Steve Cishek $5.25M + $0.75M buyout; 20 IP; -0.2 bWAR, 5.40 ERA; 5.64 FIP. Free agent.
  • $5.3M Craig Kimbrel $5.3M Aug-Sept 2021; 2022 Trade TBD?  23  IP; 0.0 bWAR; 5.09 ERA; 4.56 FIP. 2022 / possible trade candidate.
  • $5.0M Zach Duke $15M 3 years: 2015 - July 2016: 98 IP; 1.7 bWAR; 3.11 ERA; 4.01 FIP. Traded for Charlie Tilson (-1.6 bWAR).

 

Kimbrel not being in red sticks out like a sore thumb since he didn't technically have negative fWAR and doesn't consider the players surrendered in acquiring him, either.  We certainly didn't get the production of an elite $16 million closer who we paid a top of the market price for.

What would be far more interesting is $$$/fWAR allocated across MLB bullpens the last three seasons.

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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Kimbrel not being in red sticks out like a sore thumb since he didn't technically have negative fWAR and doesn't consider the players surrendered in acquiring him, either.  We certainly didn't get the production of an elite $16 million closer who we paid a top of the market price for.

What would be far more interesting is $$$/fWAR allocated across MLB bullpens the last three seasons.

True that that table doesn't capture efficiency, based on $ spent/WAR, nor does it compare Hahn's spending to other FOs.

It also doesn't capture the opportunity cost/opportunity loss, in terms of what could have been signed INSTEAD OF these players.

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8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Kimbrel not being in red sticks out like a sore thumb since he didn't technically have negative fWAR and doesn't consider the players surrendered in acquiring him, either.  We certainly didn't get the production of an elite $16 million closer who we paid a top of the market price for.

What would be far more interesting is $$$/fWAR allocated across MLB bullpens the last three seasons.

My post was a review of Hahn's history in relation to Kendall Graveman's signing, not a rehash of the 4 month old Kimbrel discussion.

His RP FA signings have been solid overall. If you or Two Gun Pete want to put together something else, the board is an open forum.

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

My post was a review of Hahn's history in relation to Kendall Graveman's signing, not a rehash of the 4 month old Kimbrel discussion.

His RP FA signings have been solid overall. 

To the bolded, how can you say this, without some basis of comparison to Hahn's peers?

Or to compare these acquisitions to others made at the same time?

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If this means Kimbrel is all but guaranteed gone, then hellzzz yeahhhh!!!

 

I would like to resign Tapera. Whatever happened to Jimmy Cordero? I felt like he was effective in limited appearances, not the way Renteria used him. 

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Not a bad signing, CK trade all but certain now!

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Resign tepera and do whatever you want with kimbrel and i think our bullpen is A+ grade going i to the year, costs be damned

 

 

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15 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

If this means Kimbrel is all but guaranteed gone, then hellzzz yeahhhh!!!

 

I would like to resign Tapera. Whatever happened to Jimmy Cordero? I felt like he was effective in limited appearances, not the way Renteria used him. 

Jimmy had RR induced TJS and was out all last year.  

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Not having to worry about the pen is huge. HUGE.

Go out there and get a backup catcher, a right fielder and a 2nd baseman and this roster is good to go.

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We should realize that bullpens were critical this post season.  Hopefully this is an important component. 

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4 hours ago, fathom said:

Why are you acting like offseason is over?

A 40 year body of work from the owner's suite does it for me.

 

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1 hour ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Jimmy had RR induced TJS and was out all last year.  

He's also a free agent after refusing MiLB assignment

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3 minutes ago, GradMc said:

A 40 year body of work from the owner's suite does it for me.

 

Back to back playoff appearances rewrite that history,  but feel free to grudge on.

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10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's also a free agent after refusing MiLB assignment

That’s what I was looking for, knew he had TJS.

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And you apparently hate all veterans and dislike filling major holes while trying to compete.

I do hate repeating the practices that put the Sox in a 5-year hole, and creating a hole to fill a non-hole.
Anyway, what major (or non-major)  hole  does this fill?
Maybe SP, as his gives Hahn room to move Crochet, one of the few players of real value that he could trade.  Athletics, I'm sure,  would be pleased with Crochet for 1 year of Bassitt, although the FO would provide them with more.   

Edited by GreenSox

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1 hour ago, GradMc said:

A 40 year body of work from the owner's suite does it for me.

 

Don’t say it…don’t say iiiiiit…mmmmmmAFFLUENT SPORTSMAN

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23 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I do hate repeating the practices that put the Sox in a 5-year hole, and creating a hole to fill a non-hole.
Anyway, what major (or non-major)  hole  does this fill?
Maybe SP, as his gives Hahn room to move Crochet, one of the few players of real value that he could trade.  Athletics, I'm sure,  would be pleased with Crochet for 1 year of Bassitt, although the FO would provide them with more.   

Tepera is a free agent.

Kopech is going to the rotation. 

Kimbrel is halfway out the door.

There is a HUGE hole in the pen even with Graverman.

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I had a post talking about bringing more diverse offerings into our pitching, graveman, tepera bring that. (I know we had tepera but notable he was one of our best in playoffs)

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I had a post talking about bringing more diverse offerings into our pitching, graveman, tepera bring that. (I know we had tepera but notable he was one of our best in playoffs)

Not necessarily related but Bummer’s stuff last year ranked at obscene levels 

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1 minute ago, fathom said:

Not necessarily related but Bummer’s stuff last year ranked at obscene levels 

Yeah, that slider is unbelievable. I think 2021 was a transition year for him, not sure he knew how to harness that.

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In last year's Covid free agency there were 9 UFA relief pitchers that received contracts with an AAV above $5mil:

  • Liam Hendriks $18m (3y) 2.7 fWAR (1st in RP fWAR with at least 20 IP)
  • Trevor Rosenthal $11m Injured
  • Brad Hand $10.5m  -.1 fWAR
  • Blake Treinen $8.75m (2y) 1.8 fWAR (11th)
  • Trevor May $7.75m (2y) .5 fWAR (105th)
  • Pedro Baez $6.25m (2y) 0 fWAR on 4.1 inning pitched
  • Alex Colome $6.25m 0.1 fWAR
  • Archie Bradley $6m 0.3 fWAR
  • Kirby Yates $5.5m Injured

Below this you get guys like Chase Anderson, Ken Giles, Tony Watson, Mark Melancon, Aaron Loup, etc. that got contracts between $3m-$4m in AAV. 

Edited by MackowiakYakYak
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