White Sox sign Leury Garcia to 3 year deal

[Eminor3rd]

Yes, Leury is a good player to have on the roster. Nice to have, trust the process, etc. I believe that the White Sox intend to get a better second baseman still.

Here's the problem, as I see it:

When you're operating on a limited budget and prices are not fixed or determinable, it makes NO sense to buy things you DON'T need before you buy things you DO need. This deal (years/dollars) is fine in a vacuum, but it's only fine in context if it comes on the heels of having your necessities covered. This is a deal that should have come at the end of the offseason IF the Sox found themselves with budget remaining.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the Sox have three substantial roster holes to fill: (1) RF, (2) 2B, (3) SP. As it stands the White Sox have now committed (conservatively) at least a third of their likely budget space (~$12.5m to Graveman/Garcia) and filled NONE of those holes. This reduces their leverage for filling those holes, and if they fail, it will be at the expense of the major pieces for the benefit of covering the minor "nice to haves." If Sox ended up having to overpay for a starting caliber RF/2B and it left them "scrambling" for a bench piece, they would be in drastically better position than if the opposite were true.

To me, to make this deal on this date is yet another inexplicably inefficient application of limited resources. They may very well fully intend to acquire real solutions for their problems this offseason, but they've put themselves in a great position to fail at doing so. Maybe the CBA will shake things up and make this a good move, or maybe they'll pull the right deals off anyway. but it won't be because it was "smart," it'll be because it was lucky. 

It's finally looking clear to me why this team seems to miss on its targets so frequently. They're getting in their own way and I can't understand why.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yes, Leury is a good player to have on the roster. Nice to have, trust the process, etc. I believe that the White Sox intend to get a better second baseman still.

Here's the problem, as I see it:

When you're operating on a limited budget and prices are not fixed or determinable, it makes NO sense to buy things you DON'T need before you buy things you DO need. This deal (years/dollars) is fine in a vacuum, but it's only fine in context if it comes on the heels of having your necessities covered. This is a deal that should have come at the end of the offseason IF the Sox found themselves with budget remaining.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the Sox have three substantial roster holes to fill: (1) RF, (2) 2B, (3) SP. As it stands the White Sox have now committed (conservatively) at least a third of their likely budget space (~$12.5m to Graveman/Garcia) and filled NONE of those holes. This reduces their leverage for filling those holes, and if they fail, it will be at the expense of the major pieces for the benefit of covering the minor "nice to haves." If Sox ended up having to overpay for a starting caliber RF/2B and it left them "scrambling" for a bench piece, they would be in drastically better position than if the opposite were true.

To me, to make this deal on this date is yet another inexplicably inefficient application of limited resources. They may very well fully intend to acquire real solutions for their problems this offseason, but they've put themselves in a great position to fail at doing so. Maybe the CBA will shake things up and make this a good move, or maybe they'll pull the right deals off anyway. but it won't be because it was "smart," it'll be because it was lucky. 

It's finally looking clear to me why this team seems to miss on its targets so frequently. They're getting in their own way and I can't understand why.

I get what you are trying to say here, but I disagree with the idea that someone like Leury isn't needed on this team.  With the injury history we have with some of our biggest players, having someone who can step into those spots in a pinch, and give them days off otherwise, is a necessity.  It's not like the team can sign up 7 major league starter ready OFs, so this is about as close as you can come to it by getting plug in level guys, and insulating the system against needing to dip into the minors when these injuries happen.

[Eminor3rd]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I get what you are trying to say here, but I disagree with the idea that someone like Leury isn't needed on this team.  With the injury history we have with some of our biggest players, having someone who can step into those spots in a pinch, and give them days off otherwise, is a necessity.  It's not like the team can sign up 7 major league starter ready OFs, so this is about as close as you can come to it by getting plug in level guys, and insulating the system against needing to dip into the minors when these injuries happen.

The point is that they'll be better off without someone like Leury than they will be without someone like Chris Taylor. So if signing Leury might prevent you from signing Chris Taylor, you're doing it wrong. If signing Chris Taylor turns out to prevent you from signing Leury, you're in a better position. You can find SOME version of Leury Garcia if you HAVE to, on a minor league or one year MLB deal when spring training starts, even if he's inferior to Leury. But you can't find an extra $10m a year to win the bidding for the starter you need.

Having a good bench replacement is definitely important, but it isn't more important than having the starter that he might need to replace.

EDIT: But point taken on bench still being a legitimate "need." I probably should have characterized is a significantly SMALLER need, such that it belongs in a lower tier.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Eminor3rd

[Chick Mercedes]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

All that hand-wringing for a $5.5M AAV.  Lolz. 

And handwringing over handwringing 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yes, Leury is a good player to have on the roster. Nice to have, trust the process, etc. I believe that the White Sox intend to get a better second baseman still.

Here's the problem, as I see it:

When you're operating on a limited budget and prices are not fixed or determinable, it makes NO sense to buy things you DON'T need before you buy things you DO need. This deal (years/dollars) is fine in a vacuum, but it's only fine in context if it comes on the heels of having your necessities covered. This is a deal that should have come at the end of the offseason IF the Sox found themselves with budget remaining.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the Sox have three substantial roster holes to fill: (1) RF, (2) 2B, (3) SP. As it stands the White Sox have now committed (conservatively) at least a third of their likely budget space (~$12.5m to Graveman/Garcia) and filled NONE of those holes. This reduces their leverage for filling those holes, and if they fail, it will be at the expense of the major pieces for the benefit of covering the minor "nice to haves." If Sox ended up having to overpay for a starting caliber RF/2B and it left them "scrambling" for a bench piece, they would be in drastically better position than if the opposite were true.

To me, to make this deal on this date is yet another inexplicably inefficient application of limited resources. They may very well fully intend to acquire real solutions for their problems this offseason, but they've put themselves in a great position to fail at doing so. Maybe the CBA will shake things up and make this a good move, or maybe they'll pull the right deals off anyway. but it won't be because it was "smart," it'll be because it was lucky. 

It's finally looking clear to me why this team seems to miss on its targets so frequently. They're getting in their own way and I can't understand why.

I think they have to do everything as the opportunity presents themselves. They need someone like him. If they said we can only do these three things right now and one or two doesn't materialize it's suddenly April and you also have a bench to fill. There's a prioritized  to do list but check off anything on this list. 

I don't believe his contract is really going to prevent them from overpaying. I can think their historically cheap ass ways will prevent them from over spending.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

The point is that they'll be better off without someone like Leury than they will be without someone like Chris Taylor. So if signing Leury might prevent you from signing Chris Taylor, you're doing it wrong. If signing Chris Taylor turns out to prevent you from signing Leury, you're in a better position. You can find SOME version of Leury Garcia if you HAVE to, on a minor league or one year MLB deal when spring training starts, even if he's inferior to Leury. But you can't find an extra $10m a year to win the bidding for the starter you need.

Having a good bench replacement is definitely important, but it isn't more important than having the starter that he might need to replace.

EDIT: But point taken on bench still being a legitimate "need." I probably should have characterized is a significantly SMALLER need, such that it belongs in a lower tier.

I mean, if you want to b**** about allocation of resources you can start and end with the bullpen. Paying your primary backup at CF and SS 5.5 million per is not the place to start.

[raBBit]

20 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean, if you want to b**** about allocation of resources you can start and end with the bullpen. Paying your primary backup at CF and SS 5.5 million per is not the place to start.

Isn't Engel the primary backup at CF?

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Isn't Engel the primary backup at CF?

bro he's the starting RF!

[Jerry McNertney]

From my sources, I'm hearing Leury Garcia will be the starting right fielder and the White Sox management is seeking Gordon Beckham to come out of retirement to start at second. It would save a lot of money.

[Eminor3rd]

49 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean, if you want to b**** about allocation of resources you can start and end with the bullpen. Paying your primary backup at CF and SS 5.5 million per is not the place to start.

This sentiment only makes sense outside of context. It doesn't matter where you "start," you have to includes everything to actually judge a deal. No one has a problem with the idea of paying a useful backup $5.5m a year. It's the $5.5m on top of the $7m on top of whatever you end up eating on the Kimbrel deal and how all of that adds up to a big chunk of what we know the Sox are going to spend but all the big holes remain.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I think they have to do everything as the opportunity presents themselves. They need someone like him. If they said we can only do these three things right now and one or two doesn't materialize it's suddenly April and you also have a bench to fill. There's a prioritized  to do list but check off anything on this list. 

I don't believe his contract is really going to prevent them from overpaying. I can think their historically cheap ass ways will prevent them from over spending.

It's true that we (I) need to  remember that you can't always line everything up in the order you want it. Maybe Leury was on the verge of signing somewhere else, etc. As of today, though, I'd rather have seen them walk away from that than compromise the other stuff. But, time will tell if it really might compromise the other stuff. 

[Texsox]

25 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's true that we (I) need to  remember that you can't always line everything up in the order you want it. Maybe Leury was on the verge of signing somewhere else, etc. As of today, though, I'd rather have seen them walk away from that than compromise the other stuff. But, time will tell if it really might compromise the other stuff. 

I agree. I wouldn't want it compromising either.

The other shame is most fans want to see higher salaries. He really should be getting 7 or 8 mil a year.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

This sentiment only makes sense outside of context. It doesn't matter where you "start," you have to includes everything to actually judge a deal. No one has a problem with the idea of paying a useful backup $5.5m a year. It's the $5.5m on top of the $7m on top of whatever you end up eating on the Kimbrel deal and how all of that adds up to a big chunk of what we know the Sox are going to spend but all the big holes remain.

Four months ago, Cesar Hernandez was going to be the White Sox starting 2B on Opening Day, April of 2022.

For $6 million.

Now we likely have Leury Garcia for basically the same amount.

Hard to consider that a win.  And, for the moment, Mendick and Romy are the primary back-up candidates, although that will obviously change (one would hope).

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Jerry McNertney said:

From my sources, I'm hearing Leury Garcia will be the starting right fielder and the White Sox management is seeking Gordon Beckham to come out of retirement to start at second. It would save a lot of money.

On nights that Gordon is sitting on bench - he will be in the booth as they are only going to pay announcers on a per game basis.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

This sentiment only makes sense outside of context. It doesn't matter where you "start," you have to includes everything to actually judge a deal. No one has a problem with the idea of paying a useful backup $5.5m a year. It's the $5.5m on top of the $7m on top of whatever you end up eating on the Kimbrel deal and how all of that adds up to a big chunk of what we know the Sox are going to spend but all the big holes remain.

This makes sense if they are managing to a # that is extremely tight. If the inverse is true and they basically know they are going to upgrade those other 2 spots + had a need on the bench and feel they have resources to execute on those - than I think it is okay to do what they did. If they only have $20M to do 3 things - than spending $6M here would not be wise, leaving you with $14M for more pressing needs.  

The problem is - none of us know the exact situation but my impression is - they have enough - that doesn't mean a blank check, but that they should be able to do what they want and hit on those positions. Maybe said another way - the $6M given to Leury wouldn't make a difference if instead they gave a Leury equivalent $3M and spread it to the other holes (JR would be okay absorbing that difference given the team).  

[Eminor3rd]

8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This makes sense if they are managing to a # that is extremely tight. If the inverse is true and they basically know they are going to upgrade those other 2 spots + had a need on the bench and feel they have resources to execute on those - than I think it is okay to do what they did. If they only have $20M to do 3 things - than spending $6M here would not be wise, leaving you with $14M for more pressing needs.  

The problem is - none of us know the exact situation but my impression is - they have enough - that doesn't mean a blank check, but that they should be able to do what they want and hit on those positions. Maybe said another way - the $6M given to Leury wouldn't make a difference if instead they gave a Leury equivalent $3M and spread it to the other holes (JR would be okay absorbing that difference given the team).  

Agreed, they can spend or trade their way to success still, certainly. And they might. 

[Chisoxfn]

8 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Agreed, they can spend or trade their way to success still, certainly. And they might. 

But if they are living in the can't spend $1 when we have .50 cents world - than timing/how matters and you got to get more cute. Years ago I would have said that was the case - but with this team - despite the offseason - I still think they are committed to going up to luxury tax and quite frankly after the CBA and with the luxury tax raised - I suspect that gives them a new record payroll and puts them in a spot where they can fill all the needs (maybe not the way a Dodgers or Yankees would...but still pretty good all things considered).  

[joejoesox]

as much as we hear about how valuable Leury is around here, not one single team beat our offer? Lmao

[turnin' two]

8 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

as much as we hear about how valuable Leury is around here, not one single team beat our offer? Lmao

Seems to prove the point that he's pretty valuable to the Sox, right?

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Seems to prove the point that he's pretty valuable to the Sox, right?

It is worth noting that there is a reason why this is true - the White Sox not only traded away a starter last year, but they did so while having an extremely weak minor league system and a lineup that is extremely injury prone. That means they don’t have quality players to step in when people get hurt, and they have to have other options.

[Texsox]

29 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

as much as we hear about how valuable Leury is around here, not one single team beat our offer? Lmao

Can't you say that about every free agent? He went from 3.5 to 5.5 mil. That's a nice raise. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Can't you say that about every free agent? He went from 3.5 to 5.5 mil. That's a nice raise. 

Over 50%

[greg775]

9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Good deal, that is a very club friendly AAV. Frankly I think he could have gotten another 5-6 million total on the open market. Seems like he took a little discount to come back to familiar grounds.

It'd be nice to be Leury. He stays with the Sox and is paid millions. Great by anybody's standards except pro players in various sports. Obviously he likes playing for the Sox. He actually doesn't need any more cash than he got to be set for life, so have some fun Leury and try to win a ring or two. Sox can't afford to fade quickly from the playoffs next season lest they be considered the new Twins.

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yes, Leury is a good player to have on the roster. Nice to have, trust the process, etc. I believe that the White Sox intend to get a better second baseman still.

Here's the problem, as I see it:

When you're operating on a limited budget and prices are not fixed or determinable, it makes NO sense to buy things you DON'T need before you buy things you DO need. This deal (years/dollars) is fine in a vacuum, but it's only fine in context if it comes on the heels of having your necessities covered. This is a deal that should have come at the end of the offseason IF the Sox found themselves with budget remaining.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the Sox have three substantial roster holes to fill: (1) RF, (2) 2B, (3) SP. As it stands the White Sox have now committed (conservatively) at least a third of their likely budget space (~$12.5m to Graveman/Garcia) and filled NONE of those holes. This reduces their leverage for filling those holes, and if they fail, it will be at the expense of the major pieces for the benefit of covering the minor "nice to haves." If Sox ended up having to overpay for a starting caliber RF/2B and it left them "scrambling" for a bench piece, they would be in drastically better position than if the opposite were true.

To me, to make this deal on this date is yet another inexplicably inefficient application of limited resources. They may very well fully intend to acquire real solutions for their problems this offseason, but they've put themselves in a great position to fail at doing so. Maybe the CBA will shake things up and make this a good move, or maybe they'll pull the right deals off anyway. but it won't be because it was "smart," it'll be because it was lucky. 

It's finally looking clear to me why this team seems to miss on its targets so frequently. They're getting in their own way and I can't understand why.

No big surprise.  Doubling down on not going for a needed RF at the trade deadline, and spending all those resources on a closer that we did not need.  Our FO has its priorities wrong.

[South Side Hit Men]

All I know is I rather have three Leurys than one Kimbrel.