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The Second Base Options (as it stands)

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22 minutes ago, bmags said:

I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded.

I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me.

The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him.

I actually think McNeil would be on the block given their roster construction:

Escobar and JD Davis at 3B.

Escobar and Cano at 2B.

Cahna, Marte, Nimmo in the OF.  Smith as backup corner/DH.  They could sign another cheap backup.

He seems expendable for the right price.

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13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Would it make any sense for the Mets to take Keuchel and Kimbrel for Cano? 

The problem is the 2023 money. 

But yes, the keuchel stuff IS fun because we know the mets are looking for a veteran lefthander and that's why they've discussed kikuchi. And since kikuchi sucks, why not go after keuchel whom you at least wouldn't get stuck in a long term deal with.

But, Kimbrel + Keuchel for cano to me requires NYM eating half of 2022 money and someone like Khalil Lee, who would fit sox well. Ideally, you see if you can get one of their high priced pitching signings like a ginn/allan, whose recuperating from TJS anyway.

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5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I actually think McNeil would be on the block given their roster construction:

Escobar and JD Davis at 3B.

Escobar and Cano at 2B.

Cahna, Marte, Nimmo in the OF.  Smith as backup corner/DH.  They could sign another cheap backup.

He seems expendable for the right price.

I think he could be traded, but they don't need to, and it seems like trading low. He's also just a much better defender than JD Davis. Why not trade the worse player in Davis?

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But @Squirmin' for Yermin, I want to reiterate that Jeff McNeil is probably the most perfect fit for the white sox right now outside of bryce harper falling in our laps. So, yeah, if I'm the sox I see if i can get the price right more than anyone else on that list. And I would have prioritized pitching in FA because it's not that difficult to shed in trades.

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39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

McNeal would be great, especially cause he can play some OF too.  But I think that's a pipedream.  He'd be very expensive and Mets are trying to win.  

For me, 2B predicates quite a bit on what we do in RF.  If we were to sign Conforto, we can go any number of directions at 2B and be fine.

LaStella is still a super interesting name for me.  Giants could probably still use more SP and Keuchel would play well in that park.  Those two are close to an eveb swap $ wise, but LaStella has 2 years ($5.25M in 22; $11.5M in 23) versus Keuchel's 1 year at $18M (with $1.5M buyout on $20M team option that becomes vesting upon 160 IP in 22).  Sox probably have to throw something interesting in here as well - perhaps Burger would interest them.  They are getting old and thin and IF corners. 

I love the LaStella fit.  That also creates about $12M in room for 22, combined with moving Kimbrel, Sox would create about $30M to spend on Conforto and SP by going this route.  

Lineup: Anderson SS, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Eloy DH, Grandal C, Robert CF, Conforto RF, Vaughn LF, LaStella 2B

Rotation: Giolito, Lynn, Kopech, Cease and FA SP

But the FA SP options getting pretty thin, so perhaps we go trade route with Gray/Castillo/Mahle/Manea/Bassit for the last SP using Sheets as the headliner with a combination of our HS pitching prospects and/or MLB ready guys that don't have much of a role in Chicago moving forward. 

That leaves our starting pitching depth woefully short…basically Lopez or Crochet, but you might have to trade one of them, too.

Sheets, Vaughn (maybe) and Burger on the positional side…and money added to payroll, when we could have just spent money.

Not a great idea with our minor league depth and continuing to take pieces away from future teams.  Might be better just to wait until midseason if that’s the very best we can do.

 

And Castillo would come with a much higher cost, the only one to really be excited about turning things around with Katz.

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What would McNeil cost, realistically?

If it's too much, then go with Kemp. 2.5m for projected 2.1 war and helps balance the lineup a little bit too. 

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5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

What would McNeil cost, realistically?

If it's too much, then go with Kemp. 2.5m for projected 2.1 war and helps balance the lineup a little bit too. 

I'm good with a Bassit, kemp, Diekman trade. Not sure what that would cost but would plug some holes.

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59 minutes ago, bmags said:

The problem is the 2023 money. 

But yes, the keuchel stuff IS fun because we know the mets are looking for a veteran lefthander and that's why they've discussed kikuchi. And since kikuchi sucks, why not go after keuchel whom you at least wouldn't get stuck in a long term deal with.

But, Kimbrel + Keuchel for cano to me requires NYM eating half of 2022 money and someone like Khalil Lee, who would fit sox well. Ideally, you see if you can get one of their high priced pitching signings like a ginn/allan, whose recuperating from TJS anyway.

The other problem for sending them both of them would be the "luxury tax" if that's a thing - taking Cano's $40 million over 2 years and turning into $35 million or whatever in 1 year would create a massive single year tax bill and almost certainly push the Mets into the highest tier where they're getting all sorts of penalties.

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32 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

What would McNeil cost, realistically?

If it's too much, then go with Kemp. 2.5m for projected 2.1 war and helps balance the lineup a little bit too. 

The guy has been worth 0 war (zero) excluding last year.  I have no interest giving anything for Tony Kemp.

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

  

Trades:
Jean Segura - 103 2021 wRC+ COST 14M + 1M 2023 buyout
Pluses - 
 
 Great defense at second
  Contact (13% K rate)
  Average vs RHP
Minuses - 
  Fathom says he is mopey and has bad vibes
  Lacks power
  Expensive money wise

 

LOL.

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Thanks for putting that together.  

After analyzing your analysis, I'd say, Story would be awesome.  We should do that.  Ok, now for reality, the trade options are the most likely.  The Mc boys would be my first choices, but the Sox could easily be out bid for either, and I think the Rockies have said they want to build around McMahon.  I'd take McNeil in a heartbeat, I think he's a good player and a dude that can just hit.  

With that said, I think Segura is by far the most likely.

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We should just do Story..

Fuck, Baez would have been a good option too at what he got.

Story isn't our ideal fit, but he is a legit talent especially compared to everything else. 

 

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2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's not too late to offer Kimbrel to the Cubs for Madrigal.  

Too late. Look, I hated the trade the second it was announced Madrigal and Heuer were going North but it's time to move on. He's (unfortunately) not here anymore.

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16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's not too late to offer Kimbrel to the Cubs for Madrigal.  

The Cubs are already potentially looking at benching the guy and he hasn't played a game for them by spending hundreds of millions on a SS, so they can move Nico Hoerner to 2B.

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7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Cubs are already potentially looking at benching the guy and he hasn't played a game for them by spending hundreds of millions on a SS, so they can move Nico Hoerner to 2B.

They love Kimbrel.  Seems like a match made in Heaven.  A scrub 2nd stringer for the best closer in baseball.  No brainer!

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4 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I too am intrigued by a Keuchel/Cano swap if nothing else can come.

No way I want Cano... I don't like Keuchel at all, but he's a guy that you need for a regular season run. You can't count on 5 SP for the season, and you need that depth. I'm okay keep Keuchel around, as long as we limit his innings so his option doesn't vest and as long as he doesn't sniff a playoff roster. I would rather see us sign a high leverage SP (Rodon would be fine with me). And then Keuchel starts in the bullpen and him a Lopez are the guys that fill in when starters need a rest or are injured. 

We are in position to win the world series we shouldn't be shedding payroll to shed payroll... I would rather keep Kimbrel and make him be the Andrew Miller... come in for high leverage situations early in games as a "closer" to stop threats... then you have Bummer, Gravemen, Hendricks for 7-9. 

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1 minute ago, striker said:

Best FA Option: Villar
Best trade option: McNeil

 

What do people like about Villar? He may have been one of the worst defensive players in baseball in 2020 for that amount of games, and while it's nice he produces evenly from both sides, it's just a slightly above average wRC+ vs. RHP. Add to that - he Ks a LOT.

The right side of the infield with Abreu/Villar is potentially the worst right side of the infield I can imagine.

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

What do people like about Villar? He may have been one of the worst defensive players in baseball in 2020 for that amount of games, and while it's nice he produces evenly from both sides, it's just a slightly above average wRC+ vs. RHP. Add to that - he Ks a LOT.

The right side of the infield with Abreu/Villar is potentially the worst right side of the infield I can imagine.

Yeah I was lazy when I picked him. I just saw he played 3B, SS and 2B and had some pop.

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I am so disheartened by this thread . The Sox really messed this up. You cannot go to the World Series with a major hole at second base. Just depressing . 

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Just now, striker said:

Yeah I was lazy when I picked him. I just saw he played 3B, SS and 2B and had some pop.

I think it is Harrison if we are counting out Story. But he definitely has the "I'm about to fall off a cliff" vibe, he was just brutal with the As. But is graded at 2b way higher than I expected.

It's not good though. Escobar was the FA play that made the most sense, just like he was the Trade last year that made the most sense. And now there isn't a 2b out there that you can trust to get you more than average offensive production, so we are mostly just measuring defense.

Last year there were multiple cheap, great options at 2b in Wong, La Stella, etc. Really confused what they have in mind here.

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2 minutes ago, quickman said:

I am so disheartened by this thread . The Sox really messed this up. You cannot go to the World Series with a major hole at second base. Just depressing . 

This was also my takeaway. Once Escobar was gone, the best 2b remaining were Leury and Hernandez. So if we are getting a better 2b than leury they are coming from trade, or we are shocking everyone and signing Trevor Story.

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