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The Second Base Options (as it stands)

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We’re a Top 5 payroll or Top 2 committed for 2023…that still might never go over $68 million on an individual player and would hardly even allow fans the joy of speculating on adding Baez, Story or Semien, let alone Correa and Seager.

Obviously not how much money you spend (see 2006-2011/Dunn), it’s how you allocate your payroll that matters the most.

So saying we’re actually not THAT cheap, we’re just not that good at talent evaluation, isn’t much to crow about, either.

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3 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Dude, we get it, you're Eeyore.  Do you have to put this everywhere?

Yes 

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1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Too late. Look, I hated the trade the second it was announced Madrigal and Heuer were going North but it's time to move on. He's (unfortunately) not here anymore.

Why not make a trade that both teams probably could see as improving their current team?

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2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Why not make a trade that both teams probably could see as improving their current team?

How much money are the Sox kicking in for a one-for-one deal?

Also, I think Hoerner is possibly going to CF.

Edited by Bob Sacamano

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27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

How much money are the Sox kicking in for a one-for-one deal?

Also, I think Hoerner is possibly going to CF.

We shouldn't need to kick in anything IMO.  To be honest...just like most Sox fans, I would happily kick in a sweetener just to be rid of the Kimbrel problem.  There are no available 2nd basemen that get me excited.

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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We shouldn't need to kick in anything IMO.  To be honest...just like most Sox fans, I would happily kick in a sweetener just to be rid of the Kimbrel problem.  There are no available 2nd basemen that get me excited.

I think it is safe to say they will not be trading for Nick Madrigal.

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4 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We shouldn't need to kick in anything IMO.  To be honest...just like most Sox fans, I would happily kick in a sweetener just to be rid of the Kimbrel problem.  There are no available 2nd basemen that get me excited.

The Cubs aren't giving us Madrigal back for Kimbrel.  Not even worth discussing. Not to mention, Sox may not even want him.  Plenty of decent options via trade that shouldn't cost much.  

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5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The Cubs aren't giving us Madrigal back for Kimbrel.  Not even worth discussing. Not to mention, Sox may not even want him.  Plenty of decent options via trade that shouldn't cost much.  

So where is Kimbrel going?

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2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Not to the Cubs for Madrigal.

I agree the cubs have moved on and they have a young second baseman they can use now or later .  If Kimbrel is going it’s somewhere else. They really messed this up.

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How upset will fans be if the plan is to use Leury and company at 2B and explore an upgrade at the deadline?

While racking my brain trying to come up with what kind of return the Mets might want for McNeil I realized that the asking price for any real 2B upgrade might be very high this winter.  While it is very possible that similar players could be available at the deadline for essentially just the money remaining on their deal.  You also have the luxury of picking a hot hand at the deadline.  And waiting gives you the flexibility to audible this summer if there is a more important need.  

While this strategy absolutely did not work out for us last year, I'm not certain it wouldn't be the correct play this year.  

Caveat #1:  We don't get expanded playoffs, high salary floor or some other major rule change that makes trade deadline deals more difficult.  

Caveat #2:  That we have a budget and can't just sign a top remaining free agent 2B RF, C and SP.  

 

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17 hours ago, poppysox said:

So where is Kimbrel going?

Probably Philly.  Maybe Mets.  

Maybe he stays on the Sox.  

But the Cubs aren't undoing last July's trade.  Its not even worth talking about. 

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23 hours ago, GREEDY said:

How upset will fans be if the plan is to use Leury and company at 2B and explore an upgrade at the deadline?

 

Very upset. There’s a lot of things the Sox do that I can fool myself into rationalizing, but this is not one of them.

Leury is needed in a backup role for just about every position on the field. Starting Leury exclusively at one position, not only limits his value, but more importantly severely weakens the roster. It does not allow the Sox to maximize talent on the roster and it hinders flexibility of the roster.

Mendick’s bat is pretty much non-existent, and I have very little confidence in Romy as a major league contributor. 

There is also no guarantee we can acquire a better 2B at the deadline if we cannot acquire one now.

We are supposed to be a World Series contender next season, in a massive market. We need to start the season with a real 2B, not a collection of bench players. That is embarrassing. 
 

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9 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Very upset. There’s a lot of things the Sox do that I can fool myself into rationalizing, but this is not one of them.

Leury is needed in a backup role for just about every position on the field. Starting Leury exclusively at one position, not only limits his value, but more importantly severely weakens the roster. It does not allow the Sox to maximize talent on the roster and it hinders flexibility of the roster.

Mendick’s bat is pretty much non-existent, and I have very little confidence in Romy as a major league contributor. 

There is also no guarantee we can acquire a better 2B at the deadline if we cannot acquire one now.

We are supposed to be a World Series contender next season, in a massive market. We need to start the season with a real 2B, not a collection of bench players. That is embarrassing. 
 

Since Hahn felt the Sox needed an upgrade at the deadline, then he will have to find a replacement this winter. Jose Iglesias  is a possibility that is still not signed. Sounds like he is looking for $7-8 MIl for 2 years.  I am sure there are other similar names if the Sox want to spend the bigger money on RF/SP. 

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Nicky Lopez from KC. Coming into the year he was looked at as a utility player. The Sox would have to buy high. But he’d bring what Madrigal was supposed to. And can play SS. 
 

 

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This is a good article on Lopez' skill set and upside. https://www.royalsreview.com/2021/4/20/22389283/nicky-lopez-is-threading-the-needle

Some would say he's not a player to build around because of his lack of power. And he may not be a .300 hitter. But the defense, speed, contact, pitch recognition, sure would compliment the Sox needs now and in the future. If a deal built around Crochet [who may not or may not be able to transiiton to starter], I could see the Sox pulling the trigger. 

Add a power hitting, lefty hitting RFer and the position players would be set. 

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1 hour ago, SCCWS said:

Since Hahn felt the Sox needed an upgrade at the deadline, then he will have to find a replacement this winter. Jose Iglesias  is a possibility that is still not signed. Sounds like he is looking for $7-8 MIl for 2 years.  I am sure there are other similar names if the Sox want to spend the bigger money on RF/SP. 

Not sure how 1.4-1.6 fWARs the last two seasons are much of an upgrade.  At best, you’re even with Madrigal’s projected production.  Just at a much higher price point.

If they’re going this route, would almost rather bet on Andrelton Simmons returning to a 5 fWAR player at age 32 after three consecutive disappointing seasons…where he could just concentrate on defense and have no pressure to do anything but hit 9th.

That’s still not likely to beat Madrigal, either.

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If we’re dumpster diving, Brad Miller could be a good platoon partner with Leury.  His defensive metrics at 2B were solid and he can still hit RHP pretty well.  Not what I was dreaming of when we dealt Madrigal, but the free agent 2B market is a hot mess.

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5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not sure how 1.4-1.6 fWARs the last two seasons are much of an upgrade.  At best, you’re even with Madrigal’s projected production.  Just at a much higher price point.

If they’re going this route, would almost rather bet on Andrelton Simmons returning to a 5 fWAR player at age 32 after three consecutive disappointing seasons…where he could just concentrate on defense and have no pressure to do anything but hit 9th.

That’s still not likely to beat Madrigal, either.

But Madrigal was out and would not have been back so Danny Mendick was the 2nd baseman for 2nd half.  I think Hernandez should have been a step up both offensively and defensively over Mendick.  

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1 hour ago, SCCWS said:

But Madrigal was out and would not have been back so Danny Mendick was the 2nd baseman for 2nd half.  I think Hernandez should have been a step up both offensively and defensively over Mendick.  

There were some worries with Hernandez that most of his peripherals were down in the first half other than his HR rate, so if he stopped hitting HR he would stop hitting entirely. Someone got that in the trade thread, unfortunately White Sox scouts did not. 

Clearly someone did need to be brought in, and a low cost guy who was adequate would have been fine. The right answer was Escobar, but for some reason the White Sox rejected him and probably paid a higher trade price for Hernandez. Again, whatever scouting decision that was…bad.

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If Madrigal gets elected to Hall of Fame 20 years from now, will he go in wearing a White Sox cap, or Cubs?

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I was told it was going to be easy to replace Madrigal because second base is an easy position to find a player at.

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1 minute ago, hi8is said:

I was told it was going to be easy to replace Madrigal because second base is an easy position to find a player at.

I remember that too! 

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1 hour ago, hi8is said:

I was told it was going to be easy to replace Madrigal because second base is an easy position to find a player at.

It's easy to replace zero production

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