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The Second Base Options (as it stands)

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2 hours ago, hi8is said:

I was told it was going to be easy to replace Madrigal because second base is an easy position to find a player at.

I get the sentiment, but I still believe this but it requires the Sox to like, try.

Escobar and Wendle weren’t just solid replacements, they improved LH balance and defense and were reasonable deals.

Yeah if Sox don’t get any reasonable additions eventually there are not any.

And the other thing about that sentiment - they were all about sending out Madrigal for good additions, and not someone for 3 months shipped out for salary relief.

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51 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's easy to replace zero production

Yea they did such a great job of replacing a temporary injury for negative value at the position last year.

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16 minutes ago, bmags said:

I get the sentiment, but I still believe this but it requires the Sox to like, try.

Escobar and Wendle weren’t just solid replacements, they improved LH balance and defense and were reasonable deals.

Yeah if Sox don’t get any reasonable additions eventually there are not any.

And the other thing about that sentiment - they were all about sending out Madrigal for good additions, and not someone for 3 months shipped out for salary relief.

I absolutely agree! Escobar or Wendle would have been great pickups. I would have preferred Wendle and I’m still hopeful that they’ll address second base adequately.

I also wouldn’t have been completely against trading Madrigal for the right type of player. My preference would have been to upgrade the starting rotation if he was going to be moved.

Bottom line is it was about the worst utilization of using him as an asset and we’ll see where things are in March.

Edited by hi8is
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16 hours ago, bmags said:

I get the sentiment, but I still believe this but it requires the Sox to like, try.

Escobar and Wendle weren’t just solid replacements, they improved LH balance and defense and were reasonable deals.

Yeah if Sox don’t get any reasonable additions eventually there are not any.

And the other thing about that sentiment - they were all about sending out Madrigal for good additions, and not someone for 3 months shipped out for salary relief.

The FO must still view Kimbrel as being worth more than his 16 million costs since for 1 million they could have cut him loose.  RH must feel he is worth 16 million as a player for us or trade chip.

Edited by poppysox

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5 hours ago, poppysox said:

The FO must still view Kendal as being worth more than his 16 million costs since for 1 million they could have cut him loose.  RH must feel he is worth 16 million as a player for us or trade chip.

Kimbrel…

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2 hours ago, CeaseAndExist said:

Jonathan Villar

No idea why he got left off the OP but a bunch of SS are on there

I guess he was pretty much the bottom of the barrel, due to his availability to the rest of MLB...and despite having a really decent fWAR one of those years.

Maybe a case of misleading numbers, where the player doesn't equal the sum of all those parts in the clubhouse.

Hasn't had a bWAR over 2+ since 2016 with the Brewers.

Five different teams over the last five seasons.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jonathan-villar/10071/stats?position=2B/SS

Interestingly, Fangraphs had him at 3.9 fWAR (0.0 bWAR) after playing with Baltimore in 2019, they still didn't protect him on the roster.

2.1fWAR for 2021 with the Mets.  Negative defensive ratings for 4 years in a row.  Getting older.

 

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https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/five-mlb-trades-wed-like-to-see-after-the-lockout-including-yankees-and-phillies-blockbusters/

 

 

Quote

 

2. Ketel Marte to the White Sox

Possible trade package: Vaughn is an obvious starting point. He's a natural first baseman who moved all around last season in deference to Abreu, though he didn't really fit in anywhere, and frankly Sheets and Engel (and García) all out-hit him. If I were the White Sox, I'm putting Vaughn and 2021 first-round pick Colson Montgomery on the table and not thinking twice. Figure out the last piece or two (or three) from there. Arizona isn't good enough to be picky. Get the most talent possible and sort it out later.

 

Would 100% give up Vaughn to get Marte, but not wild about giving up Montgomery.

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"As it stands" Moncada is the best internal option for second base.

 

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15 minutes ago, tray said:

"As it stands" Moncada is the best internal option for second base.

 

And a way better option at 3rd base.

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19 minutes ago, tray said:

"As it stands" Moncada is the best internal option for second base.

 

That may be true currently, but he’s also the best choice for 3B.

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3 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/five-mlb-trades-wed-like-to-see-after-the-lockout-including-yankees-and-phillies-blockbusters/

 

 

Would 100% give up Vaughn to get Marte, but not wild about giving up Montgomery.

I would think Vaughn and one or two of Dalquist/Kelley/Vera gets it done, which I'd do in a heartbeat. 

I'm intrigued by a potential Gleybar deal since his value will likely never be lower, I didn't watch a ton of NY ball this year, how real are the personality/effort concerns with him? 

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Not a popular opinion but I think the best option might be to go with Leury Garcia at second and see what's available at the trade deadline.  The realistic free agent options available right now don't seem much better and I would hate to find out what the White Sox would give up to get McNeil.  

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7 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

I would think Vaughn and one or two of Dalquist/Kelley/Vera gets it done, which I'd do in a heartbeat. 

I'm intrigued by a potential Gleybar deal since his value will likely never be lower, I didn't watch a ton of NY ball this year, how real are the personality/effort concerns with him? 

Of all of the young SP, there is no one I am holding on tighter to than Vera.  He has true ace potential.

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4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/five-mlb-trades-wed-like-to-see-after-the-lockout-including-yankees-and-phillies-blockbusters/

 

 

Would 100% give up Vaughn to get Marte, but not wild about giving up Montgomery.

For some reason it doesn’t seem right trading two first round draft choices for a second baseman.  

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5 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/five-mlb-trades-wed-like-to-see-after-the-lockout-including-yankees-and-phillies-blockbusters/

 

 

Would 100% give up Vaughn to get Marte, but not wild about giving up Montgomery.

Hard pass on Vaughn + Montgomery + “2 or 3 other pieces” for Marte. 

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Pass on both of the Mets' dumpees.
And I still don't see how McNeil warrants a high prospect cost anyway; even if he wasn't off of a dismal season and even if the Mets weren't overtly trying to move him.

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16 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Pass on both of the Mets' dumpees.
And I still don't see how McNeil warrants a high prospect cost anyway; even if he wasn't off of a dismal season and even if the Mets weren't overtly trying to move him.

Who is the other dumpee?

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hard pass on Vaughn + Montgomery + “2 or 3 other pieces” for Marte. 

Good gawd.

And none of these inconsistent 2B we should load the wagon for has any sort of consistent power (a specific weakness of the Sox in 21) either.

Edited by GreenSox

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It's pretty depressing that the system is (and was last trade deadline) at a point where the Sox can't make meaningful additions via trade without dealing away pieces that are essential to the big league club in '22.

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18 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

It's pretty depressing that the system is (and was last trade deadline) at a point where the Sox can't make meaningful additions via trade without dealing away pieces that are essential to the big league club in '22.

Technically this was apparently true last year too.

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Hypothetically, if the Sox had to choose among available in-house options, Moncada at 2nd would make some sense given that Vaughn and Burger are tanks that can't play 2b but  might be adequate at 3B where their limited range  and heavy feet would not disqualify them

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14 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

It's pretty depressing that the system is (and was last trade deadline) at a point where the Sox can't make meaningful additions via trade without dealing away pieces that are essential to the big league club in '22.

Our roster is so young... Our top prospects are in the majors now.

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6 hours ago, tray said:

Hypothetically, if the Sox had to choose among available in-house options, Moncada at 2nd would make some sense given that Vaughn and Burger are tanks that can't play 2b but  might be adequate at 3B where their limited range  and heavy feet would not disqualify them

I realize you've brought up a hypothetical point. But I don't know that this organization hasn't bounced ideas like this around even if only in a strawman context.
Does Vaughn really need to be pinballing around at multiple positions all the while getting seasoned as a major league player/hitter with pretty much ZERO experience at the minor league level? The point being - do the Sox really want to groom Vaughn to be a utility player?  The guy needs to concentrate on his strengths (hitting at a MLB level), and possibly add some versatility over the course of a few seasons. Even if he's capable and willing to give these variations a shot, he's simply not the kind of player one would want to overly experiment with. Swap him out with Eloy in left/DH and get him some first base time in spelling Pito. The end.

Edited by FoxForce2

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