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The Second Base Options (as it stands)

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33 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Our roster is so young... Our top prospects are in the majors now.

Had Robert and Eloy not been long term absent last year, neither Vaughn nor Sheets would have gotten much more than a large cup of coffee or two in the bigs. Or at least one would have hoped not. Never know about this organization.

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1 minute ago, FoxForce2 said:

Had Robert and Eloy not been long term absent last year, neither Vaughn nor Sheets would have gotten much more than a large cup of coffee or two in the bigs. Or at least one would have hoped not. Never know about this organization.

In Spring Training before the Eloy injury, I believe there were rumors that Vaughn was going to make the Opening Day roster.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

In Spring Training before the Eloy injury, I believe there were rumors that Vaughn was going to make the Opening Day roster.

It was possible but not set in granite. Due to lack of depth, the Eloy injury and later Roberts' pretty much made it necessary.

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1 minute ago, FoxForce2 said:

It was possible but not set in granite. Due to lack of depth, the Eloy injury and later Roberts' pretty much made it necessary.

I am struggling to see how Robert’s injury impacted either of those guys. Vaughn was up before Robert was hurt. Sheets had seemingly very little to do with CF? He got called up because Vaughn was on the COVID list, but kept his spot because Yermin had lost the DH role.

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52 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Our roster is so young... Our top prospects are in the majors now.

Here’s the problem - a very young roster shouldn’t be bumping up against the luxury tax with several glaring holes.

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23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am struggling to see how Robert’s injury impacted either of those guys. Vaughn was up before Robert was hurt. Sheets had seemingly very little to do with CF? He got called up because Vaughn was on the COVID list, but kept his spot because Yermin had lost the DH role.

With Eloy and Robert out, how many outfielders did the Sox have on hand? Then considering Engels on and off availability, what were the Sox supposed to do regarding outfielders at all? The outfield for much of the season was a game of musical chairs. Vaughn and Sheets were the only in-system options.

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Even if you take ONLY the roster of the Sox TODAY for the team.  The best combo is Leury at 2B and Moncada at 3B.

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20 hours ago, Good Guys said:

Not a popular opinion but I think the best option might be to go with Leury Garcia at second and see what's available at the trade deadline.  The realistic free agent options available right now don't seem much better and I would hate to find out what the White Sox would give up to get McNeil.  

I'm actually ok with them going for defense with Simmons or Iglesias at 2B in the 9-spot if it means they signed Conforto as well. If the only 3 moves after the lockout (not counting minor league depth signings) are trading Kimbrel and clearing that whole salary, signing Conforto, and signing Simmons/Iglesias to play 2nd and bat 9th, I would be completely ok with that. Hold on to the prospects and young MLB players (Crochet, Vaughn, Sheets, etc) and just spend.

Edited by Bob Sacamano
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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I am struggling to see how Robert’s injury impacted either of those guys. Vaughn was up before Robert was hurt. Sheets had seemingly very little to do with CF? He got called up because Vaughn was on the COVID list, but kept his spot because Yermin had lost the DH role.

Engel was also hurt. Vaughn may have been up as our DH without those injuries but it definitely forced their hand. By the time Sheets was needed our 4 top OFs to start year were gone (eaton dfa), leury had to be more often at 2b, and brian goodwin was our CF. So it was injury fueled for sure. If Robert is there, Vaughn/Goodwin/Robert would have been enough to keep Sheets down.

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18 minutes ago, bmags said:

 

Engel was also hurt. Vaughn may have been up as our DH without those injuries but it definitely forced their hand. By the time Sheets was needed our 4 top OFs to start year were gone (eaton dfa), leury had to be more often at 2b, and brian goodwin was our CF. So it was injury fueled for sure. If Robert is there, Vaughn/Goodwin/Robert would have been enough to keep Sheets down.

I think they would have brought up the lefty bat once Mercedes was struggling and once Grandal hit his injury. But ah well.

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17 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Good gawd.

And none of these inconsistent 2B we should load the wagon for has any sort of consistent power (a specific weakness of the Sox in 21) either.

TBF, you wouldn't trade any younger player for any older player, so your position on this is kind of obvious.  

17 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

It's pretty depressing that the system is (and was last trade deadline) at a point where the Sox can't make meaningful additions via trade without dealing away pieces that are essential to the big league club in '22.

Ehhh.  We have a roster absolutely loaded with young super stars and future all stars.  Hard to do both that, and have a good farm.  Most of the Sox elite prospects have all either hit, or at least not flopped, and they're all at the big league level.  

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9 hours ago, tray said:

Hypothetically, if the Sox had to choose among available in-house options, Moncada at 2nd would make some sense given that Vaughn and Burger are tanks that can't play 2b but  might be adequate at 3B where their limited range  and heavy feet would not disqualify them

There is basically no scenario short of acquiring a top 5 3B in the league that will make moving Moncada to 2B anything but message board fodder.  He's a great defensive 3B.  He was not a great defensive 2B.  Why are we downgrading 2 positions?  Continues to make zero sense everytime someone suggests this.   

As the roster sits today, the best 2B options are Leury and Romy.  Even if the Sox go cheap at 2B, they're certain to at least add a veteran utility player that can platoon with Leury.  Depending on who we get for RF, Leury also isn't likely to just lose his OF glove either.  

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5 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

In Spring Training before the Eloy injury, I believe there were rumors that Vaughn was going to make the Opening Day roster.

He was gonna be up Opening Day with or without the Eloy injury.

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8 minutes ago, Pal said:

He was gonna be up Opening Day with or without the Eloy injury.

Agreed. The Eloy injury pushed a need for him to be in the outfield with the position-less Yermin at DH.

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6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is basically no scenario short of acquiring a top 5 3B in the league that will make moving Moncada to 2B anything but message board fodder.   

Pretty much agree with you but I suppose if Vaughn could learn 3B and hit 35 HR, then having him as a regular 3B and moving  Moncada back to 2B could make some sense, even if not the ideal spot for Moncada.  Moncada has been like a vacuum cleaner at 3B (That is what they used to call Brooks Robinson of the O's ) which makes you not want to see him moved. And speaking of message board fodder, consider that several posters here did not think it was a good idea to move Moncada to  third, stating that second base was his "natural position." Of course with Madrigal slated to eventually become the regular second basemen, the move was made.

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14 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

TBF, you wouldn't trade any younger player for any older player, so your position on this is kind of obvious.  

Ehhh.  We have a roster absolutely loaded with young super stars and future all stars.  Hard to do both that, and have a good farm.  Most of the Sox elite prospects have all either hit, or at least not flopped, and they're all at the big league level.  

Only the best organizations in baseball are capable of doing both, I'd agree. The Rays graduated 4 prospects off BA's top 100 last year and still managed to sneak 5 more on their 100 this season. The Dodgers, Braves, Astros, Yankees etc are other examples of organizations that consistently win in the majors but keep their farm systems strong. I'm not looking for the Sox to be on that level, but they're likely to be the only team in baseball that won't place a single player on any of the top 100 lists that come out this winter. Very few prospects in the system took meaningful steps forward last season, which is how you end up in a situation where the Sox are forced to deal from their big league club at the deadline last year and likely would have to do so again if they want to make a meaningful addition via trade.

It's not unreasonable at all to expect the team to manage being a contender with a top ~25 system, which would just give them enough ammunition to make trades without having to deal away players that are essential to winning over the next few seasons.

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As much as I hate signing a RHB like Trevor Story who has been more of a SS than 2b, can't we just do that? Story is an insane talent and while we'd need to get some left handed hitters in our lineup at some point -- he is free of prospect cost and would instantly make us a more dynamic team.

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28 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

As much as I hate signing a RHB like Trevor Story who has been more of a SS than 2b, can't we just do that? Story is an insane talent and while we'd need to get some left handed hitters in our lineup at some point -- he is free of prospect cost and would instantly make us a more dynamic team.

He’d cost a draft pick, so not completely free of prospect cost.

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35 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’d cost a draft pick, so not completely free of prospect cost.

Well since the Sox rarely hit on and develop draft picks well, that's ok, eh?

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On 1/22/2022 at 12:44 AM, maxjusttyped said:

Only the best organizations in baseball are capable of doing both, I'd agree. The Rays graduated 4 prospects off BA's top 100 last year and still managed to sneak 5 more on their 100 this season. The Dodgers, Braves, Astros, Yankees etc are other examples of organizations that consistently win in the majors but keep their farm systems strong. I'm not looking for the Sox to be on that level, but they're likely to be the only team in baseball that won't place a single player on any of the top 100 lists that come out this winter. Very few prospects in the system took meaningful steps forward last season, which is how you end up in a situation where the Sox are forced to deal from their big league club at the deadline last year and likely would have to do so again if they want to make a meaningful addition via trade.

It's not unreasonable at all to expect the team to manage being a contender with a top ~25 system, which would just give them enough ammunition to make trades without having to deal away players that are essential to winning over the next few seasons.

And yet Most would take the Sox situation over all those you mentioned except LAD. Sox have former top 25 prospects littered all over the roster including several former top overall prospects in the game. Would it be nice to have a great farm too? Yeah, but I’ll take the young roster of guys who have already hit and still hold considerable upside over prospects anyway. Sox are going to be good for awhile. I’m not too worried about the farm at the moment. 

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Go get Ketel Marte and sign Conforto. Go to war with that team for the next few years. Hope that Cease or Kopech take a major step. 

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7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Go get Ketel Marte and sign Conforto. Go to war with that team for the next few years. Hope that Cease or Kopech take a major step. 

Who are you trading for Ketel Marte?

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11 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Who are you trading for Ketel Marte?

Vaughn, Thompson, Burger and Sosa. Not Vera, Montgomery or Kath. 

I'm not a huge Vaughn guy. I'm not sure if the Sox can unlock Thompson. 

The Diamondbacks can afford to experiment with Burger at 3B. 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn, Thompson, Burger and Sosa. Not Vera, Montgomery or Kath. 

I'm not a huge Vaughn guy. I'm not sure if the Sox can unlock Thompson. 

The Diamondbacks can afford to experiment with Burger at 3B. 

 

So you're playing Engel everyday in LF and DHing Eloy?  IF not, who is the DH? Sheets? 

Why makes you not a huge Vaughn guy, out of curiosity?  

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I'm not convinced 2019 wasn't an outlier for Marte.  He's still a good player, but there's no way I would send that package to get him.

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