Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
bmags

The Second Base Options (as it stands)

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

So you're playing Engel everyday in LF and DHing Eloy?  IF not, who is the DH? Sheets? 

Why makes you not a huge Vaughn guy, out of curiosity?  

I think he's going to be an ok 1B, not a star or anything. I'd sell high. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think he's going to be an ok 1B, not a star or anything. I'd sell high. 

Are we selling high though?  If selling high is the plan, let him rake this year and then trade him.  He's my primary LF for the next few seasons though. No problem mixing him in at DH and 1B here and there, but he was plenty capable in LF and I want Eloy out of the field as much as possible so he can actually do the one thing he can be elite at....hit. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Except right now would be selling low.

Not if he comes out and has a next season that was comparable to his 2021. His value would drop dramatically then.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not if he comes out and has a next season that was comparable to his 2021. His value would drop dramatically then.

I don’t think it’s all that hard to imagine Vaughn improving immensely in 22. He was asked to do a ton in 21 with an enormous jump in competition and having not played at all in 20. 

AV is going to be an excellent mlb hitter. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not if he comes out and has a next season that was comparable to his 2021. His value would drop dramatically then.

I mean, couldn't we say that with literally any player? Of course if he has another bad year his value will drop.  The problem is, is his value has already dropped (probably a decent amount) since just a year ago, so trading him, unless you're getting something great, doesn't make much sense to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I mean, couldn't we say that with literally any player? Of course if he has another bad year his value will drop.  The problem is, is his value has already dropped (probably a decent amount) since just a year ago, so trading him, unless you're getting something great, doesn't make much sense to me.

Especially when he has a very clear role on this team. Trading him++ for Marte is simply plugging a hole and also creating one. No thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Especially when he has a very clear role on this team. Trading him++ for Marte is simply plugging a hole and also creating one. No thanks. 

I am not sure I like that trade but I'm going to give the logic. Given that Abreu will probably fossilize before he's no longer crewing 1b for the White Sox, if there's a hole that it is ok to open on this roster, it's trading one of Vaughn, Sheets, and Eloy. That's 3 guys covering DH and LF, and those 2 positions are generally fairly easy to fill with people from the minors or at the trade deadline, DH in particular you can fill pretty readily by just giving guys extra rest and playing your bench more. Furthermore, those 3 are perhaps the least flexible players on the roster as you can't exactly move them to CF or 3b if someone gets hurt; carrying all 3 actually creates some roster limits as 4 man bench with Vaughn and a backup catcher means you have 2 players left who need to be able to cover CF, RF, 3b, SS, and 2b on any given day. If one of those 2 spots is Engel, you almost need a 5 position-player bench to make sure you have depth if 2 IFs go out. Out of those 3, Vaughn almost certainly is the only one with value to a team like Arizona. In this case you are filling a hole with Marte by trading from the only position on the roster where you have too many players.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we sure Vaughn's value dropped? He held his own (and more for  a chunk of it) for a full MLB season after not playing above High-A and played  all over the field.  Yeah, he wasn't Juan Soto, but he also wasn't 2006 Brian Anderson out there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am not sure I like that trade but I'm going to give the logic. Given that Abreu will probably fossilize before he's no longer crewing 1b for the White Sox, if there's a hole that it is ok to open on this roster, it's trading one of Vaughn, Sheets, and Eloy. That's 3 guys covering DH and LF, and those 2 positions are generally fairly easy to fill with people from the minors or at the trade deadline, DH in particular you can fill pretty readily by just giving guys extra rest and playing your bench more. Furthermore, those 3 are perhaps the least flexible players on the roster as you can't exactly move them to CF or 3b if someone gets hurt; carrying all 3 actually creates some roster limits as 4 man bench with Vaughn and a backup catcher means you have 2 players left who need to be able to cover CF, RF, 3b, SS, and 2b on any given day. If one of those 2 spots is Engel, you almost need a 5 position-player bench to make sure you have depth if 2 IFs go out. Out of those 3, Vaughn almost certainly is the only one with value to a team like Arizona. In this case you are filling a hole with Marte by trading from the only position on the roster where you have too many players.

Sure, I get the thought process behind it.  But there is simply 0% chance I am trading Eloy right now.  That would be nuts.  Dude has the upside of one of the very best hitters on the planet.  He's coming off a dreadful season.  Eloy is my DH for the next 5 seasons.  I would allow him to play a little LF in 22 and 23 to keep him happy, but the Sox are much much better off with Eloy at DH at this point.  He's a risk to himself and everyone around him in LF.  So Eloy stays.  I fully expect him to pop out over 50 homers - while also hitting for average - one of the next couple seasons if the Sox commit to DH him 80%+ of the time.  

I am not a Sheets guy.  I do not expect him to be anything other than a Brandon Moss type if everything goes well.  Now that is a wonderfully useful guy to have around at the moment because we need lefty bats bad, but he cannot field a single position and we have Eloy at DH.  I put him in AAA to start the season and wait for a need - one will certainly arise.  He's got 2 more option years - lets use them.   

Vaughn is my LF for my aforementioned reasons.  He'll always be a 1B.  We can always move him back to 1B when father time eventually catches up to Jose.  But we all know 2022 isn't Jose's last year in a Sox uni. 

Don't get me wrong - Ketel Marte would be a great addition.  But we simply cannot add him without meaningfully subtracting from this roster.  He's a luxury we don't need.  Put on your big boy pants and give Conforto 4/$80M.  Bring in one of Villar, Miller, Solano or Harrison to platoon with Leury at 2B and fill in around the diamond.  We don't need a star at 2B.  That roster is loaded. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn, Thompson, Burger and Sosa. Not Vera, Montgomery or Kath. 

I'm not a huge Vaughn guy. I'm not sure if the Sox can unlock Thompson. 

The Diamondbacks can afford to experiment with Burger at 3B. 

 

If they sign Castellanos that would make it very easy to trade Vaughn for a 2B. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

If they sign Castellanos that would make it very easy to trade Vaughn for a 2B. 

Trying to square the idea that Sox are too one dimensional corner guys outlook with the Sox should sign a one dimensional corner guy for buku bucks and trade the cheap one for the less expensive position to buy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bmags said:

Trying to square the idea that Sox are too one dimensional corner guys outlook with the Sox should sign a one dimensional corner guy for buku bucks and trade the cheap one for the less expensive position to buy.

Castellanos is the guy now that Vaughn might be in 2-4 years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, bmags said:

Trying to square the idea that Sox are too one dimensional corner guys outlook with the Sox should sign a one dimensional corner guy for buku bucks and trade the cheap one for the less expensive position to buy.

It's the most White Sox thing ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Castellanos is the guy now that Vaughn might be in 2-4 years.  

I'd rather them sign Conforto. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'd rather them sign Schwarber.

I’d be more into this. Who know how they handle Abreu next year and replacing that with LH would be helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I go Schwarber, Castellanos, Conforto.  I think Schwarber and Castellanos are locked in.  They found their swings and they're gonna go on an extended run where they will continue to destroy baseballs.  I think Conforto will find it again but I'm not as sure of him as I am the other two. That said I'd be happy with any of them.  They need a big bat. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

AV is going to be an excellent mlb hitter.  

That was what Steve Stone said on air almost every time Vaughn  came to the plate last season.  That eventually got old for me and  when it did, I expressed that here. Some disagreed which is fine.  IMO, former players/Announcers are sometimes right and other times their  opinions are no more valuable than your own. Recall Hawk Harrelson promoting Brent Morel, Todd Frazier, Youklis, and others beyond anything that they eventually ended up contributing for our Sox.

Outfield? I think Vaughn is too slow to be a full-time  outfielder on any MLB team.   1B ?  Abreu has than sewn that up for another few years.  DH? IMO, Sheets has decent potential value as a DH. That opinion is based  mainly on what I saw ("eye test") last season after watching most of the  games at the park or on TV. .  Sheets adjusted to outside pitches very well.  Another thing was how Sheets performed in clutch at bats.  That is an intangible that few players, like Eloy  and TA seem to have and something I think Sheets has.

As far as Vaughn, he likely will have another year on the WSox to prove doubters like me wrong (which would be fine with me). As of now though,  I just do not think he has much trade value as an outfielder or as a 1B/DH.  Vaughn's .235 BA and 15 HR in 417 ABs will  not jump off the stat sheet for GM's looking to add power to their line-up. If  the Dodgers or another West coast team want Vaughn (or if he prefers playing for a team closer to his home) I would try to make a deal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still curious about the thought process of trading madrigal. Obviously they wanted kimbrel to help them to win now but hahn is not an idiot, if he thought madrigal was a cost controlled annual 3 war second baseman he wouldn't have made that trade. 

I think for some reason they must be very down on madrigal, maybe they think his medicals indicate his injury struggles will continue and he never will be a guy who regularly plays 145+ games a year. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I go Schwarber, Castellanos, Conforto.  I think Schwarber and Castellanos are locked in.  They found their swings and they're gonna go on an extended run where they will continue to destroy baseballs.  I think Conforto will find it again but I'm not as sure of him as I am the other two. That said I'd be happy with any of them.  They need a big bat. 

This sounds like the grass is always greener view. Stick with who we have. even at 2B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, zisk said:

This sounds like the grass is always greener view. Stick with who we have. even at 2B.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who do the white Sox actually have at 2b? Leury right now? Which means that the only backup IF is Romy because Leury is playing everyday? As long as no one gets hurt the entire season and Leury improves quite a bit there are no flaws in that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Schwarber would certainly add power and some swagger.  Signing him would be a dagger into the Cub fan base. The more I think of it, the more I like the idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, tray said:

Schwarber would certainly add power and some swagger.  Signing him would be a dagger into the Cub fan base. The more I think of it, the more I like the idea.

Jimenez/Vaughn, Robert, Schwarber sounds like a really tough situation for White Sox pitchers. Robert is excellent defensively, but also coming off a massive hip injury which could cost him some speed permanently. The others are just various flavors of bad.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe sacrifice defense for the HR power that Eloy, Robert and Schwarber would bring. They could combine for 100 HR which would win a lot of games in a 162 game season.  If you get a late lead, you throw in a defensive outfielder or two. If  you are behind late,. they could turn things around with one swing. SS Hitmen 2.022

 

Edited by tray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×