HOF voting/discussion getting increasingly vitriolic/polarized

[caulfield12]

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-does-baseball-hall-of-fame-voting-make-people-so-mad-001733032.html

 

“Social media is an environment for moral outrage and strong moral opinions. That's what gets shared. That's what gets light,” he says. “If you have a nuanced opinion, it doesn't travel very far as a tweet.”

This is obvious to anyone who has ever been on Twitter, but it’s also born out in the literature. Studies have shown that the design of social platforms and the psychology of the humans who use them creates a cesspool where content that includes “moral-emotional” language gets amplified.

“And in fact,” Van Bavel says, “there's some evidence suggesting people say an opinion that's stronger than the one they privately hold, because of the way it's reinforced.”

Some of this is just pathologizing the whole point of subjective sports accolades, which is to inspire conversation. For instance, tracking the candidacy of historic greats who are Hall shoo-ins is cool and all, “but they're sort of not the funnest part of the Hall of Fame discussion,” Thibodaux says. The borderline guys, whose cases will provide content fodder for years to come as our analysis evolves, are the backbone of offseason coverage.

So could everyone just be a little nicer?

“I think the debates are supposed to be fun,” Jaffe says, “but they can veer into the very unfun.”

 

 

Schilling led all candidates in last year’s voting with 71.1 percent. To gain election, a candidate must receive 75 percent of the vote by 10-year members of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America.

Sosa received 17 percent of the vote last year, the highest percentage he’s gotten.

Schilling, Sosa, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are all in their 10^th and final year of eligibility. Bonds received 61.8 percent and Clemens 61.6 percent.

Schilling, Bonds and Clemens, all polarizing candidates, were the top three finishers last year, an election where no candidate received 75 percent.

Schilling’s political comments caused a number of voters to oppose him, and he even petitioned the Hall of Fame to excluded him from this year’s ballot. That was denied.

Then you have the case of former Sox minor league manager Omar Vizquel.

 

Right now, among the publicly-known ballots, you have David Ortiz #1, Bonds and Clemens with almost identical numbers and currently over 75%, Scott Rolen 4th, Schilling 5th, Todd Helton 6th, then Andruw Jones/Gary Sheffield/Billy Wagner all kind of bunched up together.

Sosa at just 24.6%.  VIzquel at 11.1% when he seemed a shoo-in a decade ago.

Manny Ramirez at 38% and A-Rod 41% in his first year of eligibility.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by caulfield12

[Quin]

I mean, Ortiz getting in on HOF #1 just kind of blows up the argument that this was ever about steroids. The same test that nabbed Sosa nabbed him...so, might as well let in A-Rod, Manny, Bonds, Sosa and Clemens if steroids are the reason their being held out. If they want to hold them out due to character, whatever, fine. But stop lying to fans and saying its steroids when Minnesota Twins first baseman David Ortiz 

Scott Rolen should just be in, but you have voters like Nick Canepa who should clearly have their voting rights revoked:

The reason it's so vitriolic and politicized is because MLB and the BBWAA have made it such, especially with all of the rules and hoops they've made to deny (or allow) players. The Basketball Hall of Fame "lets" voters look at players' entire careers, but it took Manfred recognizing the Negro Leagues as major leagues for baseball voters to be "allowed" to do that for some players.

[turnin' two]

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

I mean, Ortiz getting in on HOF #1 just kind of blows up the argument that this was ever about steroids. The same test that nabbed Sosa nabbed him...so, might as well let in A-Rod, Manny, Bonds, Sosa and Clemens if steroids are the reason their being held out. If they want to hold them out due to character, whatever, fine. But stop lying to fans and saying its steroids when Minnesota Twins first baseman David Ortiz 

Scott Rolen should just be in, but you have voters like Nick Canepa who should clearly have their voting rights revoked:

The reason it's so vitriolic and politicized is because MLB and the BBWAA have made it such, especially with all of the rules and hoops they've made to deny (or allow) players. The Basketball Hall of Fame "lets" voters look at players' entire careers, but it took Manfred recognizing the Negro Leagues as major leagues for baseball voters to be "allowed" to do that for some players.

Holy shit.  If that's real.... what a disgrace to the game and to his profession.  

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, Quin said:

I mean, Ortiz getting in on HOF #1 just kind of blows up the argument that this was ever about steroids. The same test that nabbed Sosa nabbed him...so, might as well let in A-Rod, Manny, Bonds, Sosa and Clemens if steroids are the reason their being held out. If they want to hold them out due to character, whatever, fine. But stop lying to fans and saying its steroids when Minnesota Twins first baseman David Ortiz 

Scott Rolen should just be in, but you have voters like Nick Canepa who should clearly have their voting rights revoked:

The reason it's so vitriolic and politicized is because MLB and the BBWAA have made it such, especially with all of the rules and hoops they've made to deny (or allow) players. The Basketball Hall of Fame "lets" voters look at players' entire careers, but it took Manfred recognizing the Negro Leagues as major leagues for baseball voters to be "allowed" to do that for some players.

Ortiz getting in is a joke. 

[CentralChamps21]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Ortiz getting in is a joke. 

Especially if Schilling doesn't. Schilling is an ass and I hate almost everything he says politically, but his politics didn't give him an unfair advantage on the field.

[Chimpton]

56 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Especially if Schilling doesn't. Schilling is an ass and I hate almost everything he says politically, but his politics didn't give him an unfair advantage on the field.

And politics has nothing to do with sporting achievement which is what the HoF should be about. There are plenty of unpleasant characters who were great players in the HoF.

[Middle Buffalo]

Schilling used to come in a local AZ radio show weekly when he played here, and he is undoubtedly one of the best athletes I’ve ever heard on the radio. He never shied away from giving his opinion on anything. 
 

I’m not a fan of his politics, and I don’t think I ever really liked him as a person, but to be held out because of your beliefs seems unfair. We want athletes to have opinions and be interesting- as long as we agree with them, I guess.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Especially if Schilling doesn't. Schilling is an ass and I hate almost everything he says politically, but his politics didn't give him an unfair advantage on the field.

 

14 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

And politics has nothing to do with sporting achievement which is what the HoF should be about. There are plenty of unpleasant characters who were great players in the HoF.

 

5 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Schilling used to come in a local AZ radio show weekly when he played here, and he is undoubtedly one of the best athletes I’ve ever heard on the radio. He never shied away from giving his opinion on anything. 
 

I’m not a fan of his politics, and I don’t think I ever really liked him as a person, but to be held out because of your beliefs seems unfair. We want athletes to have opinions and be interesting- as long as we agree with them, I guess.

I mean...Schilling's opinions that definitely doomed him are Islamophobia, transphobia, and saying lynching journalists is awesome (doesn't sit well with the BBWAA, I imagine). We don't even need to delve into his political views after those three.

As for shit people in the Hall, yeah, Cap Anson would probably have a hard time getting in now, but he didn't while baseball was still segregated. Him being in is a bigger insult than Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe would be.

[southsider2k5]

29 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

And politics has nothing to do with sporting achievement which is what the HoF should be about. There are plenty of unpleasant characters who were great players in the HoF.

As Whataboutisms go, We did it before, so why not keep doing it the same way is a pretty awful one.  There is nothing wrong with learning from what you know today and adjusting your thinking to match.

 

As for Curt, I always kind of felt his peak didn't last long enough, or wasn't great enough to overcome the rest of his career.  He didn't hit any of the big key numbers.  He never won a Cy Young.  Close, but not quite for me.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

As Whataboutisms go, We did it before, so why not keep doing it the same way is a pretty awful one.  There is nothing wrong with learning from what you know today and adjusting your thinking to match.

 

As for Curt, I always kind of felt his peak didn't last long enough, or wasn't great enough to overcome the rest of his career.  He didn't hit any of the big key numbers.  He never won a Cy Young.  Close, but not quite for me.

I mean dude has a 79 career fWAR, three rings, and an iconic playoff moment in all of baseball history.

He's being held out entirely because his post-baseball career has been a trainwreck besides ever since he released Kingdoms of Amalur.

[caulfield12]

If his Massachusetts gaming business was the successful equivalent of Activision Blizzard or NetEase, would he still be in, regardless of politics?  Feel like the fallout there was the final tipping point.

And no Jeff Kent fans are outraged?  He was another one of those 2B for most of his career many fans assume was eventually going to be enshrined.

Finally, Gary Sheffield yet another seemingly held back by personality and difficult historical relations with the media, not unlike Jim Rice back in the day.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

I mean dude has a 79 career fWAR, three rings, and an iconic playoff moment in all of baseball history.

He's being held out entirely because his post-baseball career has been a trainwreck besides ever since he released Kingdoms of Amalur.

6 time all star, 3 times finishing in 2nd in the Cy behind Randy and Johan. This is a HoF career from the numbers.

[Texsox]

I look at the Hall of Fame as the place that baseball celebrates all that is great about the game and honors people that advanced the game forward. I don't see why they should honor anyone that shit on the game.