Chicago White Sox Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Hey, I'm just parroting back things I've read today: We needed that closer depth instead of OFers a year ago with our top OFers on the IL. Now that they're back healthy, we won't need a RFer. Also, Bassitt is the best SP available on the market today, so even if you lose the trade, it'll be OK. And, Kimbrel's a HOFer, so keep him. Show me these posts from today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Some of us want to actually win a WS and realize they have to beat teams that are stacked to accomplish that. The angst comes from comparing the Sox roster to that of the Dodgers. If you want a stronger reason for angst, it’s that this team has a shallow pitching staff without organizational depth, and the last two difference making pitchers on the market are now gone, one of whom they could at least have pulled off a 2nd round pick for and didn’t do so because of confusing reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: You are ridiculous right now. Go have a few more beers and get some sleep. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Just now, Jack Parkman said: I've given him credit for his trades of Sale, Quintana and Eaton. He did about as well as one could hope on those. Is that 1 out of 75 or 80 posts. I don't he's much different than most GMs. Win some, lose some. I think he's biggest issue in the past has been lack of resources. Let's hope that isn't the case now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If you want a stronger reason for angst, it’s that this team has a shallow pitching staff without organizational depth, and the last two difference making pitchers on the market are now gone, one of whom they could at least have pulled off a 2nd round pick for and didn’t do so because of confusing reasons. Rodon is completely unreliable. I wouldn't feel comfortable counting on him for shit. he's good when he's healthy, but he's never healthy. I'm happy for Carlos. He got his dough and I'm relieved the Sox didn't give him that deal. There's a ton of risk there. Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Jack - We have a $190M luxury tax payroll right now. We’re already in unprecedented territory. What in the world do you gain being angry about stuff that hasn’t actually happened yet? It gets him the attention he so desperately craves? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: If you want a stronger reason for angst, it’s that this team has a shallow pitching staff without organizational depth, and the last two difference making pitchers on the market are now gone, one of whom they could at least have pulled off a 2nd round pick for and didn’t do so because of confusing reasons. We are trading for a starter pitcher. I know that will trigger some here since it will likely be a rental or guy with limited control, but it’s going to happen. Hell, Hahn even mentioned in his press conference today that they have discussed non traditional rotation structures to get through the season, including a theoretical six man rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: Is that 1 out of 75 or 80 posts. I don't he's much different than most GMs. Win some, lose some. I think he's biggest issue in the past has been lack of resources. Let's hope that isn't the case now. It’s not just resources, but having an owner that dictated we continually go for it without providing the necessary resources. How many times did we try to win but never put the finishing touches on things? Doesn’t mean Hahn is free from criticism, but those failures are more on Jerry than anyone else IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) Just now, Chicago White Sox said: It’s not just resources, but having an owner that dictated we continually go for it without providing the necessary resources. How many times did we try to win but never put the finishing touches on things? Doesn’t mean Hahn is free from criticism, but those failures are more on Jerry than anyone else IMO. You nailed it. This is where the angst comes from, this is where the negativity comes from. Jerry hasn't proven he will give Hahn the resources to get the job done. Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I like how there’s a possible rumor about Joe Kelly and people ignore is to critique Kimbrel’s first half of 2021 for the 5000th time. As for Kelly, I view him similarly to Tepera. No way they sign him unless Kimbrel gets dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, fathom said: I like how there’s a possible rumor about Joe Kelly and people ignore is to critique Kimbrel’s first half of 2021 for the 5000th time. As for Kelly, I view him similarly to Tepera. No way they sign him unless Kimbrel gets dealt. You think Kimbrel has to go first? I kind of feel like they sign his replacement and then deal him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: You think Kimbrel has to go first? I kind of feel like they sign his replacement and then deal him? You better be damn sure you can unload him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, fathom said: I like how there’s a possible rumor about Joe Kelly and people ignore is to critique Kimbrel’s first half of 2021 for the 5000th time. As for Kelly, I view him similarly to Tepera. No way they sign him unless Kimbrel gets dealt. Big velocity, strikeout rate surge last year, good groundball rate. He's very similar to Graveman. The Sox definitely have a type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Rodon is completely unreliable. I wouldn't feel comfortable counting on him for shit. he's good when he's healthy, but he's never healthy. I'm happy for Carlos. He got his dough and I'm relieved the Sox didn't give him that deal. There's a ton of risk there. See now this I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: It’s not just resources, but having an owner that dictated we continually go for it without providing the necessary resources. How many times did we try to win but never put the finishing touches on things? Doesn’t mean Hahn is free from criticism, but those failures are more on Jerry than anyone else IMO. Ok, I'm done joking around (for now). I disagree here. When I highlight the myriad fuckups by RH/KW, its because they're so fucking commonplace and blatant. For example: A year ago, we needed OFers. Atlanta needed OFers. We had the 5th most fWAR by RPs @ the TDL, Atlanta had the 12th most fWAR by RPs @ the TDL. Atlanta intelligently went out and addressed their problem by getting OFers. RH looked that the pile of AAAA types in the OF, and traded for a closer. By the way, who won the WS? And in looking at what Atlanta have up for their OFers vs Heuer and Madrigal, who spent more lavishly? That wasn't "a lack of resources," that was a stoopid FO doing stoopid things. And we can recite chapter and verse on that. Hell, if Oakland and Tampa and Milwaukee can compete with a fraction of our resources, then it ain't about JR. Its about how stoopid our FO has been. Edited March 12, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: It’s not just resources, but having an owner that dictated we continually go for it without providing the necessary resources. How many times did we try to win but never put the finishing touches on things? Doesn’t mean Hahn is free from criticism, but those failures are more on Jerry than anyone else IMO. You can criticize everyone as no one gets them all correct. But everyone seems absolutely convinced that this FO can not and will not get anything right. Just not true, in my view. Is it guaranteed to go right or wrong, no. As you said, I place more on the resources provided before. Let's see how it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, fathom said: You better be damn sure you can unload him At worst, you just unload him for a nobody prospect, right? Then it would have just been like you didn’t pick up the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Let’s say the Sox sign Joe Kelly and deal Kimbrel. Here’s how the bullpen would shake out (Steamer’s projected 2022 FIP in parentheses): CL: Liam Hendriks (2.69) SU: Aaron Bummer* (3.28) SU: Kendall Graveman (3.98) MR: Garrett Crochet* (3.85) MR: Joe Kelly (3.88) MR: Ryan Burr (4.64) MR: Jose Ruiz (4.51) LR: Reynaldo Lopez (4.36) The top five would look good, but I’d want another arm that at a minimum can compete with Burr & Ruiz. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, fathom said: You better be damn sure you can unload him If they pick up $4 million-ish they should be able to, even I agree with that. $6 million if things go terribly. If his option was $10 million then I would have said picking it up was generally an ok risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I like the idea of Kimbrel for Dominguez and Alvarado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 The Sox are so risk adverse that they didn't offer Rodon the qualifying offer, which he only would have accepted if his shoulder was about to explode. There is no way they didn't do extensive due diligence of Kimbrel's trade value before picking up his option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: If they pick up $4 million-ish they should be able to, even I agree with that. $6 million if things go terribly. If his option was $10 million then I would have said picking it up was generally an ok risk. I hated the Kimbrel trade in the moment, but if they're really *stuck* with a reliever who projects to be one of the best in baseball, it's not the end of the world. They can still make meaningful additions as is with the CBT being raised now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Ok, I'm done joking around (for now). I disagree here. When I highlight the myriad fuckups by RH/KW, its because they're so fucking commonplace and blatant. For example: A year ago, we needed OFers. Atlanta needed OFers. We had the 5th most fWAR by RPs @ the TDL, Atlanta had the 12th most fWAR by ROs @ the TDL. Atlanta intelligently went out and addressed their problem by getting OFers. RH looked that the pile of AAAA types in the OF, and traded for a closer. By the way, who won the WS? And in looking at what Atlanta have up for their OFers vs Heuer and Madrigal, who spent more lavishly? That wasn't "a lack of resources," that was a stoopid FO doing stoopid things. And we can recite chapter and verse on that. Hell, if Oakland and Tampa and Milwaukee can compete with a fraction of our resources, then it ain't about JR. Its about how stoopid our FO has been. It a shame that they haven't been in the playoffs to compete in such as long time then. I agree they haven't been competitive in a very long time. Probably won't be for awhile either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: It a shame that they haven't been in the playoffs to compete in such as long time then. I agree they haven't been competitive in a very long time. Probably won't be for awhile either. I know, right? They've just made so much progress from year to year in the post-season. And this years team is ready to roll to that same level of success in the post-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Let’s say the Sox sign Joe Kelly and deal Kimbrel. Here’s how the bullpen would shake out (Steamer’s projected 2022 FIP in parentheses): CL: Liam Hendriks (2.69) SU: Aaron Bummer* (3.28) SU: Kendall Graveman (3.98) MR: Garrett Crochet* (3.85) MR: Joe Kelly (3.88) MR: Ryan Burr (4.64) MR: Jose Ruiz (4.51) LR: Reynaldo Lopez (4.36) The top five would look good, but I’d want another arm that at a minimum can compete with Burr & Ruiz. Screw competing, just get replacements for both Burr and Ruiz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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