Balta1701 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, ptatc said: I still disagree with Rodon. They did not want any chance of having to depend upon him this year. It may turn out they were wrong, but that is a chance I would not take either. That would have made more sense than what they did. ”We don’t want to risk having $18 million given to a pitcher we’re not sure about. We are totally ok risking $16 million on that though.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Wash was brought in to coach him after he got off to a terrible defensive start in ‘15, because the White Sox had never done basic defensive drills with him. Semien showed rapid improvement - see his first and second half error totals in ‘15. I believe you, but where can I find fielding splits for seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, Quin said: Montas was a fireballer in the Red Sox system, came over in the Peavy trade. Got developed by the Sox, made the majors. Turned into a Top 100. Traded to Dodgers, throws 16 innings in 2016 in theirs system. They're good, but 16 innings. Traded him to Oakland. Not good in 2017 or 2018. Good in 2019, busted for steroids. Bad in 2020. Great in 2021. The White Sox developed him as a prospect - a lot like Semien. Also like Semien, he was bad until 2019*. J.B. Wendelken and Bassitt didn't take time to adjust. The counter point is that the Sox did fuck all in that time period and it would have been great watching the four of them grow up with the current core (assuming the Sale, Quintana, and Eaton deals pan out the same without the Samardzija, Shields, and Frazier failures goading the rebuild). Edit: Semien put up his first good fWAR (3.9) in 2018. He exploded in 2019. It’s tough to know if those guys would have developed the same here. I don’t know if any of us expected them to reach the peaks that they did. But it’s pretty safe to say the Sox gave up on them too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 11 minutes ago, chw42 said: Conforto to the Red Sox then most likely? I think SD & Red Sox are teams with biggest RF need other than cheapo Sox, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just now, EloyJenkins said: Conforto to the Red Sox then most likely? I think SD & Red Sox are teams with biggest RF need other than cheapo Sox, right? Boston is the best bet. San Diego has no money right now until they get rid of Hosmer and Myers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, chw42 said: Castellanos, Harper, & Schwarber in the same lineup?😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: It’s tough to know if those guys would have developed the same here. I don’t know if any of us expected them to reach the peaks that they did. But it’s pretty safe to say the Sox gave up on them too soon. Start negotiating with OAK, see which prospects they want, then don't trade those guys.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: It’s tough to know if those guys would have developed the same here. I don’t know if any of us expected them to reach the peaks that they did. But it’s pretty safe to say the Sox gave up on them too soon. Changing any point of the rebuild has such a wild butterfly effect it's all impossible. I once broke it down where basically the only trade you can really, truly undo and still pull off the Sale, Q, Eaton tear down the same way ... is the Shields trade, because Tatis was so young and it happened so much later on the timeline (basically being the straw that broke the camel's back). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Castellanos, Harper, & Schwarber in the same lineup?😱 Yeah they'll be pretty loaded. But even with Castellanos, they'll be running out some ? in CF, SS, and 3B. Which is kind of where our lineup is right now (our 3 ?s are at different positions though). Edited March 18, 2022 by chw42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Quin said: Changing any point of the rebuild has such a wild butterfly effect it's all impossible. I once broke it down where basically the only trade you can really, truly undo and still pull off the Sale, Q, Eaton tear down the same way ... is the Shields trade, because Tatis was so young and it happened so much later on the timeline (basically being the straw that broke the camel's back). Didn’t they overhaul the development staff after those trades? Or around the same time? Am I imagining that? They tried to supplement Sale & Q so many times it seems and it was never enough. It’s really impossible to know what a tinker here or a different move there does to the arc of the entire rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, chw42 said: Yeah they'll be pretty loaded. But even with Castellanos, they'll be running out some ? in CF, SS, and 3B. Which is kind of where our lineup is right now (our 3 ?s are at different positions though). I’m not intimately familiar with their roster but that’s a hell of a middle of the order if they make that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, ptatc said: I still disagree with Rodon. They did not want any chance of having to depend upon him this year. It may turn out they were wrong, but that is a chance I would not take either. I believed that for a while, but after seeing what they have done with Kimbrel, I can't buy this line of thinking anymore. They clearly are fine "rolling the dice" on a player that they don't feel like should be part of the roster moving forward. Additionally, seeing what Rodon got from the Giants, it's clear they didn't judge the market accurately. Yes, Rodon turning down the QO would have hurt his value, but not enough where he wouldn't have received any multi-year deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, chw42 said: Yeah they'll be pretty loaded. But even with Castellanos, they'll be running out some ? in CF, SS, and 3B. Which is kind of where our lineup is right now (our 3 ?s are at different positions though). They have the Mets in their division which sure does seem like it should be some extra motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, chw42 said: Boston is the best bet. San Diego has no money right now until they get rid of Hosmer and Myers. I'm thinking Miami or Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Didn’t they overhaul the development staff after those trades? Or around the same time? Am I imagining that? They tried to supplement Sale & Q so many times it seems and it was never enough. It’s really impossible to know what a tinker here or a different move there does to the arc of the entire rebuild. The White Sox did overhaul their development just as the rebuild trades were hitting. Getting good players out of those deals has been a solid success, but it has been at least partially balanced by the complete inability to develop anything else. Having to spend money on several utility guys, spending truckloads of money on relievers when they were supposed to be overflowing with reliever candidates, and now having the 30th ranked system and no ability to pull off big trades without sacrificing the big league roster are all symptoms of that. For the overhauled development staff, that should all be concerning. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: Conforto to the Red Sox then most likely? I think SD & Red Sox are teams with biggest RF need other than cheapo Sox, right? Sox have the 4th highest payroll in baseball right now. Can you really call them cheap? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: That would have made more sense than what they did. ”We don’t want to risk having $18 million given to a pitcher we’re not sure about. We are totally ok risking $16 million on that though.” Still depends on what they get for kimbrel. There is little risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 42 minutes ago, chw42 said: They are both DH. That's a tough choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Sox have the 4th highest payroll in baseball right now. Can you really call them cheap? Yeah, they aren't cheap, finally. They are just really, REALLY bad at roster management/makeup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tony said: I believed that for a while, but after seeing what they have done with Kimbrel, I can't buy this line of thinking anymore. They clearly are fine "rolling the dice" on a player that they don't feel like should be part of the roster moving forward. Additionally, seeing what Rodon got from the Giants, it's clear they didn't judge the market accurately. Yes, Rodon turning down the QO would have hurt his value, but not enough where he wouldn't have received any multi-year deals. What he got really doesn't matter. It's the fact that depending on him for the regular season and playoffs isn't a gamble worth taking they already have Kopech in the rotation who needs to have a strict innings limit. Otherwise they would have 2 starters not available in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just now, ptatc said: What he got really doesn't matter. It's the fact that depending on him for the regular season and playoffs isn't a gamble worth taking they already have Kopech in the rotation who needs to have a strict innings limit. Otherwise they would have 2 starters not available in the playoffs. So the solution to this is to have Keuchel all suited up and ready to go for the playoffs. After all, if Kopech isn't available, he's surely good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: What he got really doesn't matter. It's the fact that depending on him for the regular season and playoffs isn't a gamble worth taking they already have Kopech in the rotation who needs to have a strict innings limit. Otherwise they would have 2 starters not available in the playoffs. Of course it does. Let's say he was in line for a 5 year, 100 million dollar deal. You still think the Sox shouldn't have "risked" offering the QO, because there was a chance he accepted the 1 year deal, instead of taking a 5 year commitment? Because if what he got really doesn't matter, that's still how you would think, which makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Sounds like Boras is leaking all this to drum up more interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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