Hendriks tipping his pitches?

[soxfan49]

 

[wegner]

Wasn't it Liam's wife that pointed it out to him last year or am I misremembering??

[southsider2k5]

Sure seemed like it was being recognized by the hitters.  They didn't look like they even thought about swinging at off speed stuff.

[black jack]

17 minutes ago, wegner said:

Wasn't it Liam's wife that pointed it out to him last year or am I misremembering??

Yes, I think you’re right. 

[Leonard Zelig]

Now Liam needs to use this to his advantage. 

[chw42]

8 hours ago, Leonard Zelig said:

Now Liam needs to use this to his advantage. 

If he's gonna keep doing it, mixing it up seems like the best idea. 

[hi8is]

Seems like it’s an unconscious mechanism.

[soxfan49]

 

[NWINFan]

I don't know if Hendricks is tipping his pitches, but his fast ball doesn't look that overpowering and he has little command of his breaking pitches. I don't know why he was pitching in the 10th today. In the ninth, he gave up two hits and was lucky he didn't give up a third and lose the game right there. If Hendricks is the closer, this team is in bigger trouble than we already think.

[Chick Mercedes]

I hope he gets a chance to tip his pitches a few more times this season..

[elrockinMT]

I wonder if he is hurt

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

I wonder if he is hurt

He absolutely had some back spasms happening today. I don’t know if it will be a long term thing or not, but it definitely was enough that it was bothering him on every pitch. 

A professional manager lets him throw a pitch or two, sees he’s wincing after every pitch, and is out there with the trainer no matter how pissed he is. He might well be ready on Tuesday. But he should have been pulled before he got to give up the walk, let alone the HR.

[elrockinMT]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

He absolutely had some back spasms happening today. I don’t know if it will be a long term thing or not, but it definitely was enough that it was bothering him on every pitch. 

A professional manager lets him throw a pitch or two, sees he’s wincing after every pitch, and is out there with the trainer no matter how pissed he is. He might well be ready on Tuesday. But he should have been pulled before he got to give up the walk, let alone the HR.

The pitcher also has to be honest with the manager. Hendricks Is a fiery competitor and most  likely didn’t want to give in. He might have thought he could pitch through it 

[Middle Buffalo]

Didn’t TLR and the trainer start to come out and get turned back by Liam? I know I saw it happen, but it may have been someone else pitching.

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Didn’t TLR and the trainer start to come out and get turned back by Liam? I know I saw it happen, but it may have been someone else pitching.

Yes. 

Liam then continued showing discomfort over the next several pitches, with it seemingly getting worse as the walk turned into a Buxton at bat. Unfortunately, the manager resumed his nap after he was yelled at by Hendriks, so nothing could be done.

On the radio, DJ was saying how his discomfort was getting more obvious with each pitch and maybe the manager needed to overrule the player here, and the next pitch went 425 feet.

[wegner]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes. 

Liam then continued showing discomfort over the next several pitches, with it seemingly getting worse as the walk turned into a Buxton at bat. Unfortunately, the manager resumed his nap after he was yelled at by Hendriks, so nothing could be done.

On the radio, DJ was saying how his discomfort was getting more obvious with each pitch and maybe the manager needed to overrule the player here, and the next pitch went 425 feet.

Actually it was 469 feet....an absolute bomb.

[CentralChamps21]

I don't understand why something like this lasts more than 1-2 appearances. Is there not someone on staff who watches video of the pitchers to try and detect stuff like this and bring it to the pitching/bullpen coach's attention?

[tray]

19 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

He absolutely had some back spasms happening today. I don’t know if it will be a long term thing or not, but it definitely was enough that it was bothering him on every pitch. 

A professional manager lets him throw a pitch or two, sees he’s wincing after every pitch, and is out there with the trainer no matter how pissed he is. He might well be ready on Tuesday. But he should have been pulled before he got to give up the walk, let alone the HR.

 

That was Tony's fault?   Come on.

IMHO, Hendriks has given up HRs because he gets down in counts to good fastball hitters  and needs to throw a strike,.

Unfortunately, Hendriks fastball no longer seems to have movement. When it is center cut up in the zone, it gets mashed.

OK, let's assume Hendriks has some physical issue or that his fastball has just flattened out for whatever reason.

.What are Tony and Katz supposed to do for a Closer now?  Bummer?  ReyLo?

 

[Tony]

1 minute ago, tray said:

 

That was Tony's fault?   Come on.

IMHO, Hendriks has given up HRs because he gets down in counts to good fastball hitters  and needs to throw a strike,.

Unfortunately, Hendriks fastball no longer seems to have movement. When it is center cut up in the zone, it gets mashed.

OK, let's assume Hendriks has some physical issue or that his fastball has just flattened out for whatever reason.

.What are Tony and Katz supposed to do for a Closer now?  Bummer?  ReyLo?

 

I would check on the availability of Craig Kimbrel. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, tray said:

 

That was Tony's fault?   Come on.

IMHO, Hendriks has given up HRs because he gets down in counts to good fastball hitters  and needs to throw a strike,.

Unfortunately, Hendriks fastball no longer seems to have movement. When it is center cut up in the zone, it gets mashed.

OK, let's assume Hendriks has some physical issue or that his fastball has just flattened out for whatever reason.

.What are Tony and Katz supposed to do for a Closer now?  Bummer?  ReyLo?

 

Wait.

Are you trying to make the argument that it isn't the responsibility of the team manager to notice that his pitcher is acting like he is hurt with every pitch and actually go out and do something because of it?  Even if it is just to go out and talk to him, testing him, make him throw a few warm ups etc., just to check on him?

WHO comes in after that is secondary to the health of the guy on the mound.  If by subsequent investigation, you find your guy is hurting, then you go to whoever your next best guys is in that situation.

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, tray said:

 

That was Tony's fault?   Come on.

IMHO, Hendriks has given up HRs because he gets down in counts to good fastball hitters  and needs to throw a strike,.

Unfortunately, Hendriks fastball no longer seems to have movement. When it is center cut up in the zone, it gets mashed.

OK, let's assume Hendriks has some physical issue or that his fastball has just flattened out for whatever reason.

.What are Tony and Katz supposed to do for a Closer now?  Bummer?  ReyLo?

 

You take out the guy having back spasms and wincing when he throws pitches, get him a day of treatment, and hopefully he's ready to go on Tuesday. 

Ever think that maybe a tiny bit of back pain on the pitch might have ben a reason why his fastball flattened out an rode up in the zone yesterday, leading first to a walk of the weak hitting #9 hitter after a couple of the pitches were up and out of the zone...and then a ball hit fairly hard to Buxton?

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You take out the guy having back spasms and wincing when he throws pitches, get him a day of treatment, and hopefully he's ready to go on Tuesday. 

Ever think that maybe a tiny bit of back pain on the pitch might have ben a reason why his fastball flattened out an rode up in the zone yesterday, leading first to a walk of the weak hitting #9 hitter after a couple of the pitches were up and out of the zone...and then a ball hit fairly hard to Buxton?

Distinct possibility.  Back issues can cut short the follow through and tend to make the ball stay up.

[tray]

Did Hendriks complain to Tony that he was having back spasms before or during the game? If he did, I agree that he should not have been employed or should have been pulled from the game. Sometimes players tell coaches and managers that they some issue but tell them it isn't impacting their performance. If Hendriks was throwing 98, it is hard to discern  from the bench whether it had any  late movement.

Setting that aside, the issue with Hendriks control  and/or getting mashed seems to predate back spasm complaints (Recall the Field of Dreams game for one, or his struggle closing out this years Home Opener).

I see the same pitcher Liam has been for the last two years. He needs to get ahead in the count and if he doesn't, even 98mph strait as an arrow  could get turned around by the better mlb hitters.

That ball was pasted by Buxton. Mercy.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, tray said:

Did Hendriks complain to Tony that he was having back spasms before or during the game? If he did, I agree that he should not have been employed or should have been pulled from the game. Sometimes players tell coaches and managers that they some issue but tell them it isn't impacting their performance. If Hendriks was throwing 98, it is hard to discern  from the bench whether it had any  late movement.

Setting that aside, the issue with Hendriks control  and/or getting mashed seems to predate back spasm complaints (Recall the Field of Dreams game for one, or his struggle closing out this years Home Opener).

I see the same pitcher Liam has been for the last two years. He needs to get ahead in the count and if he doesn't, even 98mph strait as an arrow  could get turned around by the better mlb hitters.

That ball was pasted by Buxton. Mercy.

 

 

 

 

No. He awkwardly fielded a ball thrown back to him by Grandal to start the 10th inning. That's when the problems started. 

LaRussa was ready to go out with the trainer after seeing the awkward move, but Hendriks yelled him away.

He then continued wincing noticeably after multiple pitches and walked around the mound between pitches like he was trying to stretch out his back. Meanwhile, his performance on the mound deteriorated.

He yelled at LaRussa to stay away that he was fine, but he clearly wasn't fine. The radio guys were literally begging LaRussa to come out, DJ said something very close to "you've at least got to come out and make him look you in the eye and tell you what's going on" and then the next pitch went 450 feet. 

Hendriks may have other issues with tipping pitches, giving up HR, but in the specific case of yesterday, him waving off the manager the first time - I get that, he doesn't want to come out and that's his personality. But if you see him throw a pitch and wince, and then do it again, and you sit on your hands until the game is lost after he does it over and over - that's a big time mistake. That's completely asleep at the wheel. On top of that, any time your $13 million pitcher decides to try to throw through pain,  you're risking that pitcher hurting himself worse by screwing up his normal mechanics. We're lucky he didn't hurt himself worse while doing so.

Yesterday was malpractice. That doesn't mean it's the only issue with Hendriks, but yesterday in the 10th inning was yet another big managerial mistake.

[tray]

The calculation may have been that Liam Hendriks at 96-98 mph with a sore back may have been better than whoever was left in the bullpen, plus Hendriks did not want to be taken down. It was clearly not some major injury, like an injury to his arm or elbow that would jeopardize his season by continuing to pitch.

That was not a "managerial mistake."  More like managerial discretion that you and some others can feel free to disagree with.

Hendriks was the best option at that time albeit not a very good one.  The Sox may need to look elsewhere for a Closer if this guy continues to struggle.

Listen, Hendriks is very emotive on the mound so it is hard to tell where he is at.

Recall  Hendriks  "huffing and puffing" before he gave up a home run to Aaron Judge....and then wincing before he  gave up another one to Stanton.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by tray